The 3rd Callandor wielder

[Terez]

Tuon.

[Lisa Campbell]

I think Moiraine's 3 Gifts from the Foxes were

 

1) the angreal

2) knowledge of how to seal the Bore

3) knowledge of how to weave saidin

 

 

I don't think so. I distinctly remember Moiraine "clawing" the Angreal from Lanfear's hand. Also she would have been smart enough to "wish" for Lanfear's strength, particularly with foreshadowing from the rings in Rhuideean (where she learnt about her impending vist to the snake's/fox's realm).

 

Mind you, I don't disagree with point 2 except that maybe she wished for Lanfear's knowledge instead of and/or power.

[Terez]

She said straight out the angreal was one of her wishes.

[Lisa Campbell]

i'm yet to do my 3rd (which is when I pick up stuff I've missed) re-read of TofM, thanks I'll look out for it and get back to you if I care to take it there then

[NetSlider]

Again, I will re-post the same idea but this time in the question form. Do you guys think that Min's viewing in tEotW of Moiraine and Nynaeve and how sparks fly with just the two of them (when before they all needed to be there for them to "fly") is an indication that they are the two that will use Callandor with Rand?

Personally, I'm more than convinced that Moiraine gonna be the one of two (taking into account Min's viewing that she has to be there with Rand for light to win, Mat's "half the light of the world to save the world" and others that don't come to mind at this point). And Nynaeve is also obvious, after all she's the one that Rands wants there; though it is possible that she will show up to the fight only to find out that for whatever reason someone else will take her place. Moiraine, on the other hand, and IMO of course, is a given.

[mackoY-kun]

I think that sparks are indications that they (Moiraine and Nynaeve) are Key Figures. Moiraine got Be'lal and Lanfear, Nynaeve caught Moghedien and helped catch Semirhage. It's not indication of being the 3rd in to the "twain" (two; Twain means two it seems. Before I thought it was a sort of vine) to be in the circle with Rand.

 

As far as I know, the only indications I've read (during my re-read) points to Moiraine and Alivia.

 

And Alivia is no "much more stronger" than Nynaeve, she is only "stronger" but not said to be a big Margin. Only Talaan (Seafolk apprentice) and Sharina is said to be Stronger, but not said to be "so much more" stronger, just "stronger". That's among the 4th Age people.

[Louise]

Tuon.

 

Interesting, very interesting!

 

Do you have a theory mapped out anywhere that you could link me to?

[Louise]

I think Moiraine's 3 Gifts from the Foxes were

 

1) the angreal

2) knowledge of how to seal the Bore

3) knowledge of how to weave saidin

 

 

I don't think so. I distinctly remember Moiraine "clawing" the Angreal from Lanfear's hand. Also she would have been smart enough to "wish" for Lanfear's strength, particularly with foreshadowing from the rings in Rhuideean (where she learnt about her impending vist to the snake's/fox's realm).

 

Mind you, I don't disagree with point 2 except that maybe she wished for Lanfear's knowledge instead of and/or power.

 

Would have been a waste, seeing as she just would have had that strength drained away. Asking for the angreal (which she did) is much smarter considering what the Finns were about to do to her.

 

I know I'm assuming here that she knew what her fate at the hands of the Finns was to be but I think it's likely.

[Terez]

Tuon.

Interesting, very interesting!

 

Do you have a theory mapped out anywhere that you could link me to?

Not yet. I'm still thinking about this one.

[csarmi]

I think that sparks are indications that they (Moiraine and Nynaeve) are Key Figures. Moiraine got Be'lal and Lanfear, Nynaeve caught Moghedien and helped catch Semirhage. It's not indication of being the 3rd in to the "twain" (two; Twain means two it seems. Before I thought it was a sort of vine) to be in the circle with Rand.

 

As far as I know, the only indications I've read (during my re-read) points to Moiraine and Alivia.

 

And Alivia is no "much more stronger" than Nynaeve, she is only "stronger" but not said to be a big Margin. Only Talaan (Seafolk apprentice) and Sharina is said to be Stronger, but not said to be "so much more" stronger, just "stronger". That's among the 4th Age people.

 

Alivia is said to be MUCH stronger than Nynaeve. By as much as Nynaeve has on Egwene.

Sharina is much stronger than any of them. She is probably on the same level as Lanfear (as strong as a woman can be).

[FarShainMael]

Would there be a problem with Moiraine? Would she have to use the bracelet-angreal, and would it be compatible with Callandor? Can you use two *angreals like that?

[hazelkrs1]

Tuon.

Interesting, very interesting!

 

Do you have a theory mapped out anywhere that you could link me to?

Not yet. I'm still thinking about this one.

 

I'm gonna steal it for my blog!

[pamela]

Would there be a problem with Moiraine? Would she have to use the bracelet-angreal, and would it be compatible with Callandor? Can you use two *angreals like that?

 

 

Angreal were compatible with the Bowl of the Winds...

[Terez]

Would there be a problem with Moiraine? Would she have to use the bracelet-angreal, and would it be compatible with Callandor? Can you use two *angreals like that?

Angreal were compatible with the Bowl of the Winds...

More to the point, Rand used the fat man with the Choedan Kal in Rhuidean.

[Terez]

Tuon.

Interesting, very interesting!

 

Do you have a theory mapped out anywhere that you could link me to?

Not yet. I'm still thinking about this one.

I'm gonna steal it for my blog!

Feel free. One thing that lends support to the idea is the paraphrase of her prophecies that says she will send the Dragon Reborn in to deal with Lighteater. She may feel that this is her prophesied role. Also, it would be a great way to force her to channel. And if a woman must lead the circle...well, she already knows how to channel. She does it more often than any sul'dam we've seen - in other words, she doesn't tell the damane what to do, but rather does it herself through the link. She never even tried to deny that she could see the weaves.

[Terez]

By the way, I'm not necessarily sure that it will be Tuon. I can see it being Moiraine, Alivia, Aviendha, Egwene, Cadsuane...all sorts of people. None of those would surprise me, but none of them have a particularly convincing argument in their favor either. They all have good arguments in their favor, and I listed them roughly in order of likelihood, but Tuon has everything I said in my last post, which includes prophecy that may or may not be true, and one of the trickiest problems in the entire plot - that is, how to get Tuon to accept that channeling does not make one less than human. That is part of why I try to bring her up when this debate surfaces, but the other part is that no one ever considers her. (I think Jenn should add her to the FAQ on the subject...or has she? I haven't checked it since she posted it.)

[Southpaw89]

yeah that's my question about Tuon as well. How would she know that she has to be the 3rd wielder? It's gonna be quite intriguing.

[Louise]

Tuon.

Interesting, very interesting!

 

Do you have a theory mapped out anywhere that you could link me to?

Not yet. I'm still thinking about this one.

I'm gonna steal it for my blog!

Feel free. One thing that lends support to the idea is the paraphrase of her prophecies that says she will send the Dragon Reborn in to deal with Lighteater. She may feel that this is her prophesied role. Also, it would be a great way to force her to channel. And if a woman must lead the circle...well, she already knows how to channel. She does it more often than any sul'dam we've seen - in other words, she doesn't tell the damane what to do, but rather does it herself through the link. She never even tried to deny that she could see the weaves.

 

 

Despothera; please do, I'm loving your blogs!

 

Terez; I think this theory has a lot of merit. I wish I'd thought of it before.

 

For one, the potential ramifications are immense. The Seanchan Empress actively and publicly channels. This alone could completely change the future Avi saw, assuming Tuon survives the fallout from the Seanchan. (which she must if RJ was going to do outrigger books about her and Mat.)

No more sul'dam and damane? The captive AS and Aiel WO's released? Therefore no grounds for the Aiel to fight them later...?

 

To add to what you said about Tuon feeling it is her prophecised role, it could also be the fulfillment of the Karaethon Cycle line: 'he shall bind the Nine Mooons to serve him.' Linked together through Callandor?

 

Intriguing!!

[Terez]

I think the 'bind the nine moons' more likely refers to Tuon swearing an oath on the Oath Rod (called a binder in the Age of Legends).

[Louise]

I think the 'bind the nine moons' more likely refers to Tuon swearing an oath on the Oath Rod (called a binder in the Age of Legends).

 

Yeah me too, sorta

 

I hardly have a straight theory on anything. My poor brain has bits and pieces here there and everywhere, most of the time there's multipe ideas for everything.

 

I usually have two or three thoughts for every debate. Most of the time one of them is solid, with plenty of evidence and the others are slightly left field.

 

I'm always open to new, random, spur of the moment additives. I can never quite stick to one.

[Terez]

I am the same way, really. I'm just better at this than most people, so I appear to be organized.

[mackoY-kun]

What are the possibility that that prophecy with the binding with twain be related to the domination band?

[Terez]

That one might refer to Justice. In any case, it's not very descriptive, so it's hard to make any assertions about it.

[FarShainMael]

Would there be a problem with Moiraine? Would she have to use the bracelet-angreal, and would it be compatible with Callandor? Can you use two *angreals like that?

Angreal were compatible with the Bowl of the Winds...

More to the point, Rand used the fat man with the Choedan Kal in Rhuidean.

 

Rand and Asmo weren't in a circle. And the Bowl of the Winds was a ter'angreal, which are different anyway.

 

Please note: I'm not saying there will be problems necessarily; I just think it possible there might be.

[Louise]

Terez; Appear to be organised... understatement of the year!

 

Would there be a problem with Moiraine? Would she have to use the bracelet-angreal, and would it be compatible with Callandor? Can you use two *angreals like that?

Angreal were compatible with the Bowl of the Winds...

More to the point, Rand used the fat man with the Choedan Kal in Rhuidean.

 

Rand and Asmo weren't in a circle. And the Bowl of the Winds was a ter'angreal, which are different anyway.

 

Please note: I'm not saying there will be problems necessarily; I just think it possible there might be.

 

She should be able to, I would think. The principle of the matter is the same with or without a circle.

Thinking out loud here; Just say Nynaeve forms and leads the circle, Moiraine holds herself on the verge of embracing through the bracelet-angreal, Nynaeve makes the link. (As per tPoD-ch5) Rand puts himself on the verge of embracing through Callandor, and Nynaeve makes the link.

 

I could be wrong but I can't see why it wouldn't work.

 

 

Regardless of the facts, I would personally love it to be Moiraine. Her reunion with Rand is one of the things I'm looking forward to most. I just love their relationship, particularly how his opinion of her changed with her 'death.' (Not so dissimilar to how my own opinion progressed.) It would just be fitting IMO, Moiraine and Nynaeve are the only AS he trusts, I'm fairly sure that would be Rand's preferred circle.

 

Having said that though, I am really quite obsessed with Terez's Tuon theory at the moment; if that were the case I'd say Moiraine and Tuon. (Which, as I'm writing that, sounds really strange but it's an extremely interesting thought.)