In defense of the Chosen

[UGAShadow]

I've noticed on here that most on here seem to dismiss the Forsaken as bumbling idiots that are mostly useless and die too easily.

 

I find that opinion to be quite wrong and I'm here to point out why. We'll take a look at each Forsaken and what s/he accomplished.

 

 

Balthamel/Aran'gar: Was the most easily killed forsaken. Killed by a tree. Even with this he was brought back as a woman and infiltrated the rebels. Sowed distrust against men by killing Aes Sedai and was supposed to watch Egwene. Probably the least useful of the Forsaken (aside from Asmodean). Killed by Rand with Balefire.

 

Aginor/Osan'gar: Killed by Rand with the Eye of the World. Not a bad way to go. After that he was assigned to watch Rand. Came 30 seconds from killing Rand. Killed by Callandor later.

 

Ishamael/Mordin: Was insane before he was killed in Tear. Even then he sowed choas like none other. Commanding the Black Ajah before Messana took over the tower as her domain. After his resurrection he was one of the most effective of the Forsaken. Never has tried to kill Rand as Moridin. Seems to be the only one that understands what the Dark One wants.

 

Be'lal: Had control of an entire nation and was only killed because or a surprise Balefire attack. Least known about him.

 

Asmodean: Was captured by Rand after he abandoned his plans with Lanfear. The least powerful male Forsaken yet probably would have killed Rand if not for the small angreal he had.

 

Moghedian: Pretty much the female Asmodean. Captured fairly early on and used as a pawn by Moridin since her release.

 

Lanfear: The most conflicting of the Forsaken. Was the only one outside of Ishamael that tried to turn Rand. Would have killed Rand or taken him away without Moraine's help, as indicated by Moraine herself.

 

Rahvin: The closest a Forsaken has come to killing Rand. He had control of the most powerful southern nation. If not for Nynaeve Rand would have been toast.

 

Sammael: Another Rahvin. Without Moridin's help, Rand very likely dies from his hand.

 

Greandal: Basically destroyed Arad Doman. Had the whole west of the Continent in flames before the Seanchan arrived. Has survived when everyone elese has died. Rand thinks she is dead and that gives her a certain advantage.

 

Simirhage: Had control of Seanchan and sent its mainland into total chaos. Her plan to capture Rand would have worked if not for Cadsuane's ter'angreal. Even in capture she escaped and collared Rand. Only with the help of the Dark One (literally) himself did Rand escape.

 

Mesanna: Probably caused the most known chaos outside of Ishamael. Split the tower, broke the Dragon and nearly broke the tower again. Perrin's appearence was her downfall.

 

Demandred: Oh, the most mysterious of them all. We have no idea what he's been doing. But, we all assume its something pretty big.

 

 

 

 

So, while none of them have succeded in killing Rand many of them almost did. Two are fools. Four of them had Rand on the ropes and he only beat them with the help of others. Thats not too bad if I say so myself

[SharpDressedAsha'Man]

I've noticed on here that most on here seem to dismiss the Forsaken as bumbling idiots that are mostly useless and die too easily.

 

So, while none of them have succeded in killing Rand many of them almost did. Two are fools. Four of them had Rand on the ropes and he only beat them with the help of others. Thats not too bad if I say so myself

Good post, that.

 

I think what people forget is that (most of) the Chosen are just people wanting power.

3000 years of convoluted legends is to blame for the constant 'boogeyman' image we're given of them from the characters perpectives, just the same as the Dragon and the male channeler stigma.

 

Naturally, I blame the women.

[David Selig]

Given the huge advantages which Compulsion, the access to the Darkfriends network, command of the Shadowspawn and all the AoL knowledge gave them, the Forsaken should've done a lot better. But then the series would've been way shorter. ;)

 

Jordan gave the Forsaken too many advantages and then had to force them to behave like fools most of the time so the Lightsiders could stand a chance.

[Smittyphi]

Jordan gave the Forsaken too many advantages and then had to force them to behave like fools most of the time so the Lightsiders could stand a chance.

 

I think it's more so on the line of the Forsaken were naturally wary of each other and figured since they had survived and were so close to The Dark One, they could beat Rand. Some of them could have also been blinded by the revenge factor but because of the lack of trust, it's a little bit more plausible.

 

Edit for clarity

[Sid]

Most of them overestimated Rand's abilities at the beginning, since Lews Therin was such a powerful person. By the time they got to know he was an ignorant village lad he had already moved on from that. The only two Forsaken that could find him at the beginning (other than the two at the Eye) were Ishamael and Lanfear due to their abilities to find Ta'veren in the pattern. Ishamael knew the DO's plan for him and didn't try to kill him until he was about to die. Lanfear had her own agenda, obviously. Be'lal had him dead to rights until Moiraine (whom he'd thought taken care of) showed up, and even then he would have destroyed them all had she not surprised him by knowing a weave that pretty much no other 3rd Age Aes Sedai knew.

 

Asmo might have won had Rand not had his angreal...

 

Lanfear would have killed him except for Moiraine's vision of the future...

 

Rahvin, without his co-conspirators, still would have had him without Nyneave's intervention...

 

Sammael the same at SL (Moridin helped him)...

 

Graendal was doing stuff until Sanderson made her seem almost foolish... (yeah I know that stuff was going to happen anyway but she just seemed silly after KoD)

 

What I can't understand is why Moridin waited until KoD to show the other Forsaken what Mat and Perrin looked like. Is there any possible downside to having them killed?

[True Source Creator]

I agree. I love the Forsaken actually. Any chance I get to read about them, I just savor it and often re-read those parts most frequently...especially "At the Gardens" from KoD. I do hate how they're defeated too easily, but I agree with what you say. They've been flawed, and that should be expected. The only major complaint I have with any of them is what I read today about Semirhage, who had before been my fifth or fourth favorite Forsaken. But they actually have caused much havoc and could still cause more. Mesaana has split the White Tower, Ishamael/Lanfear tried to convert Rand, Lanfear/Asmodean placed the seeds that shook the Aiel Waste and the Shaido rebellion, Rahvin nearly obliterated Rand, Sammael held an entire nation under his thumb and only died because of Moridin's help in Shadar Logoth, Aginor created the freaking Shadowspawn, Semirhage had control of the Seanchan and nearly captured Rand (her second failure ticked me off a bit, though, because she did get a bit too cocky there and should have listened to Elza when she had the chance), Aran'gar did god knows what with the rebel Aes Sedai, Moridin understands that the Forsaken cannot live for eternity like the others think.

 

Weakest links: Moghedian, Asmodean, Be'lal. Moghedian's only major accomplishment was finding the Domination Band, but she was captured too easily and has since been a toy for Moridin.

[jemron]

Two things come to mind:

 

1. The Forsaken seem lame because they often are easily defeated. However, we have to remember that they are fighting against a powerful GROUP of ta'veren AND Rand can't die until the end of the series (if then).

 

2. Don't forget that Verin said the Forsaken are likely "Chosen" by the DO because of their selfishness and very one-sided personalities. They're predictable, and therefore, usable. This is a big reason why they have such glaring weaknesses. The DO likes it that way so that he can more easily manipulate them to do his bidding AND so that he can do as Verin seemed to gather, confuse and distract from his actual goals. I think it will all make even more sense in aMoL why they all suffered such predictable fates. My guess: to distract Rand et al. from the true plan to wipe out all life as we know it. Even the Forsaken don't know the DO's true plans like Ishidin does.

[Southpaw89]

yeah I as well don't understand where people are coming from when they say the Forsaken are a bunch of idiots because those who have read through ToM could probably take the ending to be that the Shadow is without a doubt winning Tarmon Gaidon right now. That isn't because a bunch of trollocs are fighting, it's because the Forsaken have set up a great strategy so I don't think they're stupid. Like some of the above posters have said, some of them have underestimated Rand and the good guys so they're arrogant at times but that doesn't make them stupid. Moridin is one of the most clever characters I've ever read about

[Entreri]

Only Ishamael understands Shai'tan. The rest of the Chosen on the whole (except possibly the power crazed Lanfear) are merely pawns.

[True Source Creator]

Entreri: I do agree that the Forsaken are just pawns, and they don't realize that, which is why they're so flawed. Moridin understands, though, and I have a feeling Lanfear/Cyndane will have more importance later (I hope so, she was always my favorite).

 

Another point I'd like to reiterate. The Forsaken are defeated because they don't really work together (in a slight way, Lanfear and Asmodean did for a time, and Demandred is something of a "player" with two of the sexiest women of all time by his side: Mesaana and Semirhage). They act in their own interests and for the most part haven't actually tried to kill Rand but have been weaving other ways to enhance the Shadow. Rahvin didn't go directly to Rand. He had control of Caemlyn and soon would all of Andor, the most powerful nation in the south, which would have definitely hurt Rand's chances for Tarmon Gai'don. He was smart, too, for he had preparations for Rand's arrival, with the traps that would bring Rand directly to him. He really only died because of Nynaeve distracting him. Otherwise RAnd would have been the one balefired to death. Sammael also didn't go directly against Rand. Rand came to him, and Sammael had a similar trap set up that brought them to Shadar Logoth (much as Rahvin had brought them into T'A'R). Be'lal also had a trap for Rand at the Stone of Tear, but he was killed because of Moiraine, something he wasn't expecting. Balthamel and Aginor may have been unprepared as they were the first cast out of the Bore (with Ishamael) and weren't prepared for the channeling RAnd did from the Eye...and Balthamel was too distracted by raping Nynaeve anyways. Osan'gar fell victim to the power of the Choeden Kal and couldn't really do much beyond that (and wasn't it Elza who killed him?). Lanfear was blinded by hate when she fell through the doorway ter'angreal with Moiraine. And Ishamael...I think he "wanted" to die, the way he kept taunting Rand in the first three books. Semirhage did try to capture Rand, not kill him, but things got out of hand with Cadsuane's ter'angreal, and later Semirhage just got cocky, but that felt a bit misplaced because Shaidar Haran warned her that she had only one last chance. You'd think she'd be smart enough to get Rand to Shayol Ghul first then torment those Aes Sedai.