My theory on "To live, you must die"

[Dagon Thyne]

We all know that there is a link between Rand and Moridin. It was created when their balefire colided. Balefire, as we all know, burns the person or object it strikes from the very pattern. Rand and Moridin struck each other, so by the nature of balefire, neither should exist. However, at the same time, both should exist since the balefire would have burned both of them out and neither would have existed to use the balefire in the first place. To correct this distortion in the pattern, Rand and Moridin's threads were woven together to create one person. I beleive that when Rand fights moridin, he will destroy part of his being. To live (after the last battle) Rand must die....As in kill part of himself by killing Moridin.

[jwood01]

Didn't they just cross-streams of balefire? Not balefire each other.

[Dagon Thyne]

Didn't they just cross-streams of balefire? Not balefire each other.

 

I'm pretty sure it would have the same effect.

[jwood01]

Didn't they just cross-streams of balefire? Not balefire each other.

 

I'm pretty sure it would have the same effect.

 

I am not sure on that. It seems to me that it would eliminate the stream of balefire from the pattern but not the person who wove it.

[Dagon Thyne]

Didn't they just cross-streams of balefire? Not balefire each other.

 

I'm pretty sure it would have the same effect.

 

I am not sure on that. It seems to me that it would eliminate the stream of balefire from the pattern but not the person who wove it.

 

That ios sorta my point. The pattern was unsure of what to do......Balefire should have burnt them both out/.....but at the same time, if neither of them existed to use the balefire, then both would still exist....so the pattern wove them into a single being to fix the error. And that is how they were bonded.

[Demon_AS]

The balefire never touched either Moridin or Rand - if it had, I imagine BOTH of them would've been burned out of the Pattern. I suspect their link is definitely going to be very important, though, in the sealing of the Bore and maybe even how Rand might survive Tarmon Gai'don.

 

I'm not even sure that the link was created by the balefire streams touching - that's the conclusions that the characters have come to on their own, so I treat them by definition as suspect. In much the same way that Rand thought he was going to merge with Lews Therin (Min's Viewing) but, even though that has happened, I'm pretty sure it's Moridin that Min was talking about.

 

I could be wrong, but where Robert Jordan is concerned, I am not putting all my eggs in one basket lol. The man was as clever as a fox, and has fooled me umpteen times.

[mb]

This sounds somewhat similar to the Body Swap theory.

 

I have had doubts about that theory.

 

 

To me, Rand's death would be in Rand's body ; not anybody else's body.

[Dagon Thyne]

The balefire never touched either Moridin or Rand - if it had, I imagine BOTH of them would've been burned out of the Pattern. I suspect their link is definitely going to be very important, though, in the sealing of the Bore and maybe even how Rand might survive Tarmon Gai'don.

 

I'm not even sure that the link was created by the balefire streams touching - that's the conclusions that the characters have come to on their own, so I treat them by definition as suspect. In much the same way that Rand thought he was going to merge with Lews Therin (Min's Viewing) but, even though that has happened, I'm pretty sure it's Moridin that Min was talking about.

 

I could be wrong, but where Robert Jordan is concerned, I am not putting all my eggs in one basket lol. The man was as clever as a fox, and has fooled me umpteen times.

 

If both were burned out then neither would have existed to use ther balefire in the first place.....and so neither would be burned out.....They should both exist and not exist at the same time.

[Demon_AS]

This sounds somewhat similar to the Body Swap theory.

 

I have had doubts about that theory.

 

 

To me, Rand's death would be in Rand's body ; not anybody else's body.

I don't think there's going to be a body swap, either. It seems too convenient a way for the story to end.

 

The Unhealable wounds in Rand's side, though, may be dealt with when the Bore is sealed and Fain destroyed, becoming Healable. I suspect Fain will be involved in getting rid of the DO.

 

As for his missing hand and the strong suggestion that he's going to lose his eyesight... well, at least he'll still be alive!

[Demon_AS]

The balefire never touched either Moridin or Rand - if it had, I imagine BOTH of them would've been burned out of the Pattern. I suspect their link is definitely going to be very important, though, in the sealing of the Bore and maybe even how Rand might survive Tarmon Gai'don.

 

I'm not even sure that the link was created by the balefire streams touching - that's the conclusions that the characters have come to on their own, so I treat them by definition as suspect. In much the same way that Rand thought he was going to merge with Lews Therin (Min's Viewing) but, even though that has happened, I'm pretty sure it's Moridin that Min was talking about.

 

I could be wrong, but where Robert Jordan is concerned, I am not putting all my eggs in one basket lol. The man was as clever as a fox, and has fooled me umpteen times.

 

If both were burned out then neither would have existed to use ther balefire in the first place.....and so neither would be burned out.....They should both exist and not exist at the same time.

Hmmmm, I see your point.

 

Still, though, I think the relative amount of balefire used would need to be exactly the same for that to happen (the cancel-out effect, I mean).

 

Furthermore, the fact still remains that the balefire streams, while crossing, weren't aimed anywhere close to either Rand or Moridin. It just doesn't make sense that balefire would cause a link, because surely the AoL channelers would've heard of something like that back before balefire became outlawed? If everyone was chucking the stuff at each other, you'd think there'd be at least a few instances of streams crossing.

 

Logic dictates that for a conclusion to be sound, the premises must be sound as well. I don't think we have enough information to make sound assumptions, so deductive reasoning is sort of rendered useless.

[Nightstrike]

Still, though, I think the relative amount of balefire used would need to be exactly the same for that to happen (the cancel-out effect, I mean).

They'd have to be woven the exact same moment in time as well.

 

Furthermore, the fact still remains that the balefire streams, while crossing, weren't aimed anywhere close to either Rand or Moridin. It just doesn't make sense that balefire would cause a link, because surely the AoL channelers would've heard of something like that back before balefire became outlawed? If everyone was chucking the stuff at each other, you'd think there'd be at least a few instances of streams crossing.

True Power & One Power Balefire streams crossing would probably be really rare. Most Forsaken didn't want to use the True Power, and most who did probably died from the effects or from something else before that. Wasn't there only 29 Forsaken who were granted the use of True Power?

[FarShainMael]

The balefire never touched either Moridin or Rand - if it had, I imagine BOTH of them would've been burned out of the Pattern. I suspect their link is definitely going to be very important, though, in the sealing of the Bore and maybe even how Rand might survive Tarmon Gai'don.

 

I'm not even sure that the link was created by the balefire streams touching - that's the conclusions that the characters have come to on their own, so I treat them by definition as suspect. In much the same way that Rand thought he was going to merge with Lews Therin (Min's Viewing) but, even though that has happened, I'm pretty sure it's Moridin that Min was talking about.

 

I could be wrong, but where Robert Jordan is concerned, I am not putting all my eggs in one basket lol. The man was as clever as a fox, and has fooled me umpteen times.

 

If both were burned out then neither would have existed to use ther balefire in the first place.....and so neither would be burned out.....They should both exist and not exist at the same time.

 

 

Schrödinger's cat...

[Demon_AS]

Still, though, I think the relative amount of balefire used would need to be exactly the same for that to happen (the cancel-out effect, I mean).

They'd have to be woven the exact same moment in time as well.

 

Furthermore, the fact still remains that the balefire streams, while crossing, weren't aimed anywhere close to either Rand or Moridin. It just doesn't make sense that balefire would cause a link, because surely the AoL channelers would've heard of something like that back before balefire became outlawed? If everyone was chucking the stuff at each other, you'd think there'd be at least a few instances of streams crossing.

True Power & One Power Balefire streams crossing would probably be really rare. Most Forsaken didn't want to use the True Power, and most who did probably died from the effects or from something else before that. Wasn't there only 29 Forsaken who were granted the use of True Power?

Yeah, good points, both. But that implies that the link has more to do between a crossing of two different Sources rather than it having to do with what the weaves were.

 

It'd be interesting to see whether a) people can link with someone channeling the True Power and b) whether both the TP and the OP can be used in conjunction with each other. My gut instinct says the answer to both is "No!" because the TP doesn't work in duality like the OP does.

 

If that is the case... well, the problem that I always had when trying to figure out this link between Rand and Moridin comes down to a lack of understanding about the TP. I wonder if the cross between the OP and the TP somehow caused both Rand's and Moridin's thread to become weak, and the barriers between them no longer so distinct as threads in their own right. After all, Ishamael was always going on about how his and LTT's threads were intertwined.

 

Too many thoughts lol, I need a cup of tea.