Aviendha's new talent

[RobertAlexWillis]

Oh. Well, OK then.

[icspots]

In this case' date=' no I'm not. A proof has been presented that Jordan said it was the Bowl. Therefore, it was the Bowl.

 

Point proven. Discussion over.[/quote']

 

Gee, 6 pages of arguements just for that. ;) Now on to the next one.....

[Anajon]

HI

 

has anyone considered that the strangeness could come from the BOW drawing on Saidin by it self and the taint in that?

When it was created and used the last time there was not taint.

[Luckers]

RJ has stated that it was caused by the Bowl being overstrained and forced to do more then it should of by the Windfinders. Don't let the fact that other options were discussed... that was just people being pedantic.

[TheDiceAgain...]

that was just people being pedantic.

 

Well now, you aught to know... :lol:

[Simple Gleeman]

A possible explanation for the female CK melting...

 

Its accepted that men can generally hold more of the One Power while women use it more deftly. Also, clearly saidin and saidar are very different in nature. As such, many things are done differently. Gateways and putting out fires for example.

 

Couldn't it be that Rand is simply used to using a bludgeoning amount of the Power to do things and mishandled saidar?

 

Clearly he a much larger amount of saidin than saidar so you'd think the male CK would melt if anything if the failure was because of the amount of the Power.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I always figured the female Choedan Kal melted because of too much contact with the taint.

[icspots]

I always figured the female Choedan Kal melted because of too much contact with the taint.

 

The Female Choedan Kal didn't have any contact with the taint. Saidar was channeled through it into Nynaeve, and then she was linked with Rand who wove it into a tube (looked like a flower), and all of the saidin was channeled through that weave of Saidar. The two powers were pushing against eachother like two magnets.... that's what pushed the taint out.

[Trib4l]

Like you said, the tube made from saidar was specifically created to siphon the taint off of saidin into Shadar Logoth, using that reverse polarity. We know the female CK didn't actually touch the taint, but the flows of saidar did, which is what I think caused the female CK to overload and melt.

 

Regardless of how or who it was channeled, saidar did make contact with the taint - it couldn't touch saidin because of the reverse polarity but it could, and obviously did touch the taint. It had to - how else could the taint pass through the "tube"?

[Simple Gleeman]

Regardless of how or who it was channeled' date=' saidar did make contact with the taint - it couldn't touch saidin because of the reverse polarity but it could, and obviously did touch the taint. It had to - how else could the taint pass through the "tube"?[/quote']

 

"Touching" is a woefully vague.

 

It was saidin being shoved through the tube, and saidar was woven into a tube to apply a constricting type force on saidin. It wasn't only the taint going through the tube.

 

They weren't necessarily "touching". All things apply a force on each other without physically "touching". Magnets actually apply a more tangible force that you can see the effects of, but the magnet itself never has to touch the object.

 

The girls "touch" saidin several times throughout the books. I remember for instance one or two of them probing the weave around Callandor. They made no mention of their weave becoming infected. A bunch of female channelers have "touched" Rands wound and nothing out of the ordinary happened.

 

Both havles drive the Wheel of Time. I'm if they ever "touched" it would be at their very essence. Yet saidar was never cross contaiminated after 3000 years of working with and against saidin to drive the Wheel.

[Trib4l]

My point was that in this case they are being forced together. I would imagine that in their normal state they would stay apart enough that the taint would never touch.

 

Also, the minute amount of time that females actually touched saidin in any fashion would likely never have been enough to see a side effect. I think that if a woman would stay linked with a man and handle saidin long enough there's a possibility for her insanity as well as his (pre-cleansing).

 

Thirdly, we see from Rand's perspective as the tube is drawn tighter, that saidin is no longer flowing through it, only the taint. You could liken it to siphoning gas our of a car; you need to puff on the hose a little to get the gas flowing, but once you do it moves out on it's own. That's how I envision this working. Rand used saidin to start the taint flowing through the saidar tube, but once he started tightening the weave only the taint was passing through on it's own. Just on the point of being overwhelmed his inner monologue shows us that the taint is actually moving off of saidin into Shadar Logoth.

 

Another potential reason would be that the taint is always described as floating on top of saidin. It stands to some reason that it could have then touched saidar.

 

Here's how we can break this down:

[*]The female CK key and full CK melted/broke after the cleansing was complete, while the make CK was intact.

[*]Two things were done that were not ever done before to our knowledge

[*]Saidar was used to constrain or put force onto saidin using their opposite polarity as the driving force.

[*]The taint was siphoned off of saidin using saidar as a funnel.[/list:o]

[*]Saidin was cleansed and the female CK broke as a result of either 2a or 2b.[/list:o]

 

Since the force saidar imposed would have had an equal and opposite reaction on saidin, considering the force that would have been required to force saidin into the tube, we see that the make CK and key did not break. We also know that the taint was being drawn away from saidin into Shadar Logoth, through saidar.

 

I think it's safe to say that the taint is what caused the female CK to break, not the force generated to pull it off of saidin.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Yet saidar was never cross contaiminated after 3000 years of working with and against saidin to drive the Wheel.

 

The taint had never been separated from saidin before either. The set of circumstances created by what Rand did at Shadar Logoth was unique (at least in this turning of the Wheel). So coming to a positive conculsion is probably impossible, unless Jordan says "This is what happened".

 

It may not have been the taint on saidin, but the taint of Shadar Logoth. It may have been the fact that Rand was not used to handling saidar, and his awkward handling of so much caused a reaction in the sa'angreal (although one would think that if he were that awkward, he would have failed in what he was trying to do ... ). It may also have been an effect of the multi-taint-backlash-splosion. Whatever caused it to melt, it didn't happen until the very end, or Rand wouldn't have been able to finish.

 

The one thing is doesn't seem to be is overstressing the sa'angreal with the sheer amount of saidar used. The Choedan Kal were buffered against the channeler over-drawing, like pretty much every angreal and sa'angreal except for Callandor. So unless Nynaeve's capacity was somehow more than the sa'angreal could handle ... (um, no) ... then the sheer amount used wouldn't have caused it to melt. It has to be something with how Rand used it, or what other influences touched it.

[Trib4l]

Doh! I forgot to include the implosion or Rand's inexperience as a possibility. Thanks Robert!

 

I think we can rule out the touching of the source to Shadar Logoth since we see that Rand touches both to it at the beginning.