Slayer and Tower of Ghenjei

[navahgar]

Does anyone have any theories on Slayer's connection to the Tower of Ghenjei ("ToG")? I just randomly realized that I've never asked myself why Slayer is associated with the ToG. I suggest that he's connected to ToG because a few times when Perrin is chasing him he appears to run to ToG and disappear into it. I understand that Slayer is a creation of the Dark One that somehow combines Luc and Isam's souls. This combination apparently gives him a simultaneous presence in the real world and Tel'aran'rhiod ("TAR"), or maybe just a deeper control of TAR when he's in it. But how is that connected to the ToG?

 

From some of the Birgitte scenes before she gets 'reborn' there appears to be some deeper connection between the nature of ToG and TAR. Beyond that however, why should Slayer have any ability to enter the ToG (and thereby the Finn world)? I don't really have many good ideas, I just wanted to see what other, smarter, people thought. One thought I have is that maybe Slayer was created by a request to the Finns. We know that Moridin went to Finnland to recover Lanfear. Assuming that retrieving Lanfear was one of his requests, and being allowed to leave was another, maybe his third was that they fuse the souls of Luc (alive) and Isam (dead) to create Slayer and grant him some freedom in their world? Thoughts?

[Terez]

Slayer was probably just throwing Perrin off his trail, or maybe trying to lead him into Ghenjei, but RJ said that Ghenjei can't be entered from Tel'aran'rhiod, so it may be that Birgitte made an assumption there.

 

PS - He only appears to disappear into it once. IMO it was 1) a red herring for Slayer's loyalties, 2) a red herring for the nature of the 'Finns, and 3) an excuse to get Birgitte to talk to Perrin. She only talked to him to warn him of the danger, supposedly. Obviously Perrin's ta'veren pull affected her in some way, but Ghenjei was a good excuse.

[navahgar]

Slayer was probably just throwing Perrin off his trail, or maybe trying to lead him into Ghenjei, but RJ said that Ghenjei can't be entered from Tel'aran'rhiod, so it may be that Birgitte made an assumption there.

 

Interesting, so you're saying that it wasn't actually possible for Slayer to have entered the ToG? Or is it possible that that rule that Robert Jordan made could somehow be construed to not apply to Slayer, since Slayer is a bit of an anomaly? I ask, not to be rude, but because I don't have the same awareness or comprehension of Jordan's quotes as you do.

 

 

PS - He only appears to disappear into it once. IMO it was 1) a red herring for Slayer's loyalties, 2) a red herring for the nature of the 'Finns, and 3) an excuse to get Birgitte to talk to Perrin. She only talked to him to warn him of the danger, supposedly. Obviously Perrin's ta'veren pull affected her in some way, but Ghenjei was a good excuse.

 

So you don't think there's any connection between Slayer and ToG? Fair enough. But if that's the case, then what do you think Moridin asked the Finns for, if anything? Also, if he was not created by the Finns, is there some understanding of how Slayer was created, and what gives him such a control over TAR? Maybe Isam is a hero of the horn, so the fusing of the souls retains that 'dead' soul's facility with TAR?

[Terez]

Slayer was probably just throwing Perrin off his trail, or maybe trying to lead him into Ghenjei, but RJ said that Ghenjei can't be entered from Tel'aran'rhiod, so it may be that Birgitte made an assumption there.

 

Interesting, so you're saying that it wasn't actually possible for Slayer to have entered the ToG? Or is it possible that that rule that Robert Jordan made could somehow be construed to not apply to Slayer, since Slayer is a bit of an anomaly? I ask, not to be rude, but because I don't have the same awareness or comprehension of Jordan's quotes as you do.

RJ didn't typically make statements like that if there were exceptions. He was not opposed at all to using vague wording to let us know that there were exceptions to the rule.

 

A Crown of Swords book tour 9 October 1996, Dunwoody, GA - Erica Sadun reporting

 

Q: Also, what was going on in Aelfland when Mat went round and round and round the same location? Were they traveling in time?

RJ: Not traveling in time. the physical laws of nature differ. Mentioning the Dark One here is bad luck. In Aelfland, it is really bad. You can not go to Aelfland in Tel'aran'rhiod (similar to stedding).

 

But if that's the case, then what do you think Moridin asked the Finns for, if anything?

Aside from Cyndane, we just don't know.

 

Also, if he was not created by the Finns, is there some understanding of how Slayer was created, and what gives him such a control over TAR?

Not really, but we have no reason to think the 'Finns could grant this Power, and Brandon also said they can't transmigrate souls. We suspect that Ishamael brought him to Shayol Ghul, where a number of things can be done, like Mindtrapping and what was done to Fain - this distilling thing, and the compulsion he was given to hunt. It's the mix of those powers with Mordeth's powers that make Fain so dangerous. Moghedien talks about the things that can only be done at Shayol Ghul (some only to those who can channel) when she gets Mindtrapped, and she also notes that Shayol Ghul and Tel'aran'rhiod share similar properties.

 

Maybe Isam is a hero of the horn, so the fusing of the souls retains that 'dead' soul's facility with TAR?

This seems doubtful to me.

[LazyMonk]

It's never actually said that Slayer entered ToG, it's just what Perrin thought happened.

Given how powerful Slayer is in TAR (as we know know form ToM), we can safely say he wasn't fleeing from Perrin, he led him on a false trail - perhaps to let him stumble into other dangers in TAR.

[Terez]

Also, I should have pointed out that we know Luc and Isam had been merged by TDR at the latest, with the Gray Man attack in the Tower, and we are familiarized with him in TSR as both Luc and Isam. Lanfear didn't go to 'Finnland until the end of TFOH.

[Finnssss22]

I've always believed that Slayer is so strong in TAR because he is actually two people.

The ole "simplest answer is usually the best" logic.

[Terez]

I don't know if you are trying to make a joke or not. But I don't see how one could possibly lead to the other (especially the whole 'I can step in and out of the Dream without gateways' thing).

[Finnssss22]

I don't know if you are trying to make a joke or not. But I don't see how one could possibly lead to the other (especially the whole 'I can step in and out of the Dream without gateways' thing).

 

Nope, no joke, I am of the belief that the merging of Luc and Isam allows them to enter TAR much more strongly (in the flesh) without the usual dangers. Which ever guise enters TAR, he still has the other guise to anchor him as it were.

Slayer can be as strong as he wants without having to worry about losing himself like Perrin.

 

It also could be as simple as Slayer fights with the strength of two men in the Dream.

 

To take the anchor thing a little further in regards to Egwene, I wonder if her now having a bonded Warder means she can also become stronger in the Dream than previously, as she would also have an anchor as it were.

[Thor]

I've always believed that Slayer is so strong in TAR because he is actually two people.

The ole "simplest answer is usually the best" logic.

 

Slayer is so strong in TAR because he is there physically.

 

Remember when Rand and Rahvin were fighting, Moghedien said that they can channel far fare more than she or Nynaeve because they were there in the body.

[Thor]

Aginor has a third name which is more than what could be said of Lanfear, I think it's time people stop criticizing him.

[bsmnt23]

Slayer has always been on the top 3 list of mysteries for this series for me. Who took those two very seperate guys and mashed them together, and how? Also, Why? Seeing his mastery of TAR I have to wonder if there is some connection with TAR and his creation. I'm reading into some of the explanations of TAR and its rules that a Dreamer can impose his will upon the universe in TAR and the strength of that will would actualy change reality. There was that mention by the Wise One Dreamers that bringing one into TAR against their will, that that was something only the shadow ever did and was a thing of evil seems to indicate it was likely. Of course Egwene was asking about bringing someone into TAR from their own dreams in their sleep, and the Wise Ones only knew theire sleeping version of TAR, but I infered from that discussion that it was something the the Shadow did often enough in the War of Power to carry on down through the ages as a thing of true evil. I also recall during the supergirls' first experiments in TAR they made a unicorn apear simply by willing it to be and they had a hard time getting rid of it because of its plausibility.

Things in TAR are mutable, you can do anything if you can immagine it and have the will to impose it. If you had someome skilled enough in TAR and everything indicates the Forsaken do count in their number some very skilled dreamers (and a Grade "A" mad scientist kooky enough to dream up something like this) you wouldnt need the Finn to have created Slayer.

[mb]

Like others, it seems Slayer was misleading Perrin.

 

Perhaps Slayer stepped out of Telaranrhiod at the place where his trail stops.

[Terez]

A Crown of Swords book tour 24 August 1996, Vancouver - Lara Beaton reporting

 

Slayer: Can't channel. He has certain "gifts" granted to him by the Dark One, but can't channel either the One Power or the True Power.

 

Towers of Midnight Book Tour, Midnight release, Provo, UT 2 November 2010 - Tamyrlin reporting

 

Matt: Can Slayer dreamwalk in Tel'aran'rhiod or only go there in the flesh?

Brandon: Slayer cannot dreamwalk (100% sure)

Matt: Did Slayer's employer in Winters' Heart use the True Power to weave a gateway?

Brandon: RAFO - I need to look it up, but you can tell True Power gateways if you know what to look for, wouldn't you agree Matt?

Matt: Yes.

[Durinax]

Like others, it seems Slayer was misleading Perrin.

 

Perhaps Slayer stepped out of Telaranrhiod at the place where his trail stops.

Slayer could have just jumped somewhere, at this time Perrin cannot really chase things like he does in ToM which could help explain how slayer was so supprised when perrin jumped him