The Last Battle: Fighting the Dark one (spoilers)

[NitroS]

So we know at the moment its looking generally good with jesus like rand against the dark one and egwene killing over 70 Black ajah, so this means that something bad has to happen so it looks like the light are in trouble before the last battle (its obviously going to be a cliche good side win by rand whether he lives or dies is the question) So i think the bad things that are going to happen is going to have to do with the black tower so its more even at the last battle (if black tower and white tower were on rands side the fight wouldn't even be a match (1400 + male and female aes sedai linked with sa-angrael) vs what 7ish forsaken and 200000 trollocs) so the black tower will turn bad etc, in the end they will cancel each other out the borderlander armies etc will cancel the trolloc numbers out and with key forsaken + black ajah being picked off by notable aes sedai (cadsuane, moraine, siuan, egwene etc) so it comes down rand vses the dark one (who was said to be 10x stronger then the strongest forsaken in eotw) so that means using callandor with 2 other females lets assume nyneave and avienda. Does that = 10x stronger then the strongest aes sedai? do you think the battle between rand and the dark one (its been foreshadowed that much it has to be those 2 fighting no matter what) will be a battle of weaves and cuttings of weaves? old style flame sword battle of weaves? or the dark one just getting sealed into the bore again? (obviously after one of rands lovers die as emotion needs to be added)

[JKN-SW]

So we know at the moment its looking generally good with jesus like rand against the dark one and egwene killing over 70 Black ajah, so this means that something bad has to happen so it looks like the light are in trouble before the last battle (its obviously going to be a cliche good side win by rand whether he lives or dies is the question) So i think the bad things that are going to happen is going to have to do with the black tower so its more even at the last battle (if black tower and white tower were on rands side the fight wouldn't even be a match (1400 + male and female aes sedai linked with sa-angrael) vs what 7ish forsaken and 200000 trollocs) so the black tower will turn bad etc, in the end they will cancel each other out the borderlander armies etc will cancel the trolloc numbers out and with key forsaken + black ajah being picked off by notable aes sedai (cadsuane, moraine, siuan, egwene etc) so it comes down rand vses the dark one (who was said to be 10x stronger then the strongest forsaken in eotw) so that means using callandor with 2 other females lets assume nyneave and avienda. Does that = 10x stronger then the strongest aes sedai? do you think the battle between rand and the dark one (its been foreshadowed that much it has to be those 2 fighting no matter what) will be a battle of weaves and cuttings of weaves? old style flame sword battle of weaves? or the dark one just getting sealed into the bore again? (obviously after one of rands lovers die as emotion needs to be added)

 

ToM pretty much set up a split BT, didn't it? So there will probably be male channelers on both sides. Also, if Rands "battle" with the DO turns out to be a regular fight, with swords or OP/TP I will be really disappointed. After all this time I expect sometinhg much more spectacular, but I have no idea what.

[NitroS]

yea i supose but since no one can leave and the Logain supporters being out numbered if it really is 13x13 going on i dont see how they can last for long, since Rand will obviously be distracted with what he has to do with caemlyn burning, the meeting of all the nations and saving Lan (dont see how they will just kill Lan off by running him straight into trollocs i think its to obvious a death for him to die, im thinking similar to farramere in LOTR) and then the black tower.

 

I dont really see how the fight with the Dark one can go any differently outside the OP/TP/fighting unless ur thinking something similar to egwene vs messana but in a different way involving the bore.

[Ogrelin]

My guess is that the dreamworld will be involved as well, perhaps a dreamspike will complicate things as well.

[JKN-SW]

yea i supose but since no one can leave and the Logain supporters being out numbered if it really is 13x13 going on i dont see how they can last for long, since Rand will obviously be distracted with what he has to do with caemlyn burning, the meeting of all the nations and saving Lan (dont see how they will just kill Lan off by running him straight into trollocs i think its to obvious a death for him to die, im thinking similar to farramere in LOTR) and then the black tower.

 

I dont really see how the fight with the Dark one can go any differently outside the OP/TP/fighting unless ur thinking something similar to egwene vs messana but in a different way involving the bore.

 

I've never been a fan of the 13x13 theory regarding the BT. I think the split is more of a normal one. It's pretty easy to divide a larger group into smaller factions with a little manipulating, there are several experiments in RL showing this. Also I expexct Logains coming glory to be a part of this somehow.

[Barid Bel Medar]

yea i supose but since no one can leave and the Logain supporters being out numbered if it really is 13x13 going on i dont see how they can last for long, since Rand will obviously be distracted with what he has to do with caemlyn burning, the meeting of all the nations and saving Lan (dont see how they will just kill Lan off by running him straight into trollocs i think its to obvious a death for him to die, im thinking similar to farramere in LOTR) and then the black tower.

 

I dont really see how the fight with the Dark one can go any differently outside the OP/TP/fighting unless ur thinking something similar to egwene vs messana but in a different way involving the bore.

 

I've never been a fan of the 13x13 theory regarding the BT. I think the split is more of a normal one. It's pretty easy to divide a larger group into smaller factions with a little manipulating, there are several experiments in RL showing this. Also I expexct Logains coming glory to be a part of this somehow.

 

It is hardly only a theory, is is pretty much certain that 13x13 is going down in the BT. Its much like we all knew who Noal was before ToM. It doesnt need to be said. and even if I grant you that there is no 13x13 going on, they are definitely turning people to the Shadow somehow. Tarna is completely changed. Mezar is another, Logain's man through and through, and now he turns, he smile evil and eyes hard. It is really quite plain that it is going on. There is nothing normal about the events in the BT. I am genuinly suprised that you think it is a normal split.

 

Regards to the original post, I think you underestimate the Shadow. Egwene didnt kill that many BA. 40 with the rebels and maximum of 20 in the Tower. Most of the others fled. There are still around 120 BA still about. Thats not including the DF wise ones, windfinders and other female channelers. Also, the BT is pretty much controlled by the Shadow, although I grant that it will be resolved soon, but there are still many Dreadlords that wont be killed in the BT confrontation. And 200k trollocs? thats an understatement to say the least. Graendal's ambush for Perrin was 50k strong by itself. Algarin's manor attack was at least 100k. No, there is far more than 200k. Id say around 5mil minimum. Thats not inculding the darkhounds, worms, Myrddraal, Drakghar, Grey Men, Forsaken, Dreadlords, Darkfriends, those Red-veiled fellas.

 

Not to mention the DO ripping the pattern to shreds already. All those bubbles of evil will be much much worse as the seals are broken.

[Avalonjohn44]

yea i supose but since no one can leave and the Logain supporters being out numbered if it really is 13x13 going on i dont see how they can last for long, since Rand will obviously be distracted with what he has to do with caemlyn burning, the meeting of all the nations and saving Lan (dont see how they will just kill Lan off by running him straight into trollocs i think its to obvious a death for him to die, im thinking similar to farramere in LOTR) and then the black tower.

 

I dont really see how the fight with the Dark one can go any differently outside the OP/TP/fighting unless ur thinking something similar to egwene vs messana but in a different way involving the bore.

 

I've never been a fan of the 13x13 theory regarding the BT. I think the split is more of a normal one. It's pretty easy to divide a larger group into smaller factions with a little manipulating, there are several experiments in RL showing this. Also I expexct Logains coming glory to be a part of this somehow.

 

Something other than a natural split is going on. The Aes Sedai and Ashamen that are being turned to Taim's faction change into something different. Something cold and cruel and dead inside. I think the 13x13 theory holds.

[NitroS]

i was actually meaning to say the number of 2 million trollocs but yea, rand getting rid of all those trollocs by himself, over 400 aes sedai/all the good aiel/borderlands/camelyn/cairien/perrin/white cloaks black tower will obviously get resolved before the LB so u cant really count the dark ashaman, seanchan are fighting the dark one, dragons of andor all the saargnreal that cadsuane nynaneave and the white tower have all the wolves, lans army, linked circles (forsaken wont link)

[Barid Bel Medar]

i was actually meaning to say the number of 2 million trollocs but yea, rand getting rid of all those trollocs by himself, over 400 aes sedai/all the good aiel/borderlands/camelyn/cairien/perrin/white cloaks black tower will obviously get resolved before the LB so u cant really count the dark ashaman, seanchan are fighting the dark one, dragons of andor all the saargnreal that cadsuane nynaneave and the white tower have all the wolves, lans army, linked circles (forsaken wont link)

 

I do know what you mean. and I am not saying that the Light will be a pushover. The FoM gathering will likely be able to hold a bunch of Shadowspawn pretty well.

 

But i still dont think it is that easy.

 

Rand's stuff at Maradon cant really be included. It basically took all of his strength to do that and he was dead tired at the end. It killed what, 50-100k trollocs. When you get 5mil or so (including Drakgahr, Fades etc..) thats something else.

 

Rand is special, he is the strongest, most skilled channeler alive. Only he could wreak that kind of destruction, and as he said, he wont be fighting against the trollocs etc..

 

The 3rd age channelers are hardly as good. Most of the white and black tower would get extremely tired after killing about 1000 shadowspawn each. We gotta take the good with the bad. Sa'angreal and such will definitely help, but not that much.

 

Wolves are not that great, it takes like 5 of them to kill a fade.

 

Lan's army is arlight i suppose. If left alone, it will kill like 100k trollocs and get wiped out. Not that good really.

 

The FoM presents the best armies, and when the Seanchan turn up, it will be pretty awesome , they will be hard pressed, btu still good.

 

Note on the Forsaken . They are much like Rand, being AoL. Moridin is at least as powerful. Demandred is nearly as powerful. Lanfear is extremely skilled, probably the best weaver. Moggy is kinda soft. Graendal is quite good. So even if they are onyl half as strong as Rand, it would still be like having 3 Rand's at Maradon. Thats gonna blow a whole lot of people away. People die easier than trollocs.

[NitroS]

i was actually meaning to say the number of 2 million trollocs but yea, rand getting rid of all those trollocs by himself, over 400 aes sedai/all the good aiel/borderlands/camelyn/cairien/perrin/white cloaks black tower will obviously get resolved before the LB so u cant really count the dark ashaman, seanchan are fighting the dark one, dragons of andor all the saargnreal that cadsuane nynaneave and the white tower have all the wolves, lans army, linked circles (forsaken wont link)

 

I do know what you mean. and I am not saying that the Light will be a pushover. The FoM gathering will likely be able to hold a bunch of Shadowspawn pretty well.

 

But i still dont think it is that easy.

 

Rand's stuff at Maradon cant really be included. It basically took all of his strength to do that and he was dead tired at the end. It killed what, 50-100k trollocs. When you get 5mil or so (including Drakgahr, Fades etc..) thats something else.

 

Rand is special, he is the strongest, most skilled channeler alive. Only he could wreak that kind of destruction, and as he said, he wont be fighting against the trollocs etc..

any circle of 2 will beat a single foraken since they refuse to give over. so avienda/elayne linked could take out all the forsaken by themselves without linking or aided they are extremeley weak

 

The 3rd age channelers are hardly as good. Most of the white and black tower would get extremely tired after killing about 1000 shadowspawn each. We gotta take the good with the bad. Sa'angreal and such will definitely help, but not that much.

 

Wolves are not that great, it takes like 5 of them to kill a fade.

 

Lan's army is arlight i suppose. If left alone, it will kill like 100k trollocs and get wiped out. Not that good really.

 

The FoM presents the best armies, and when the Seanchan turn up, it will be pretty awesome , they will be hard pressed, btu still good.

 

Note on the Forsaken . They are much like Rand, being AoL. Moridin is at least as powerful. Demandred is nearly as powerful. Lanfear is extremely skilled, probably the best weaver. Moggy is kinda soft. Graendal is quite good. So even if they are onyl half as strong as Rand, it would still be like having 3 Rand's at Maradon. Thats gonna blow a whole lot of people away. People die easier than trollocs.

[NitroS]

i was actually meaning to say the number of 2 million trollocs but yea, rand getting rid of all those trollocs by himself, over 400 aes sedai/all the good aiel/borderlands/camelyn/cairien/perrin/white cloaks black tower will obviously get resolved before the LB so u cant really count the dark ashaman, seanchan are fighting the dark one, dragons of andor all the saargnreal that cadsuane nynaneave and the white tower have all the wolves, lans army, linked circles (forsaken wont link)

 

I do know what you mean. and I am not saying that the Light will be a pushover. The FoM gathering will likely be able to hold a bunch of Shadowspawn pretty well.

 

But i still dont think it is that easy.

 

Rand's stuff at Maradon cant really be included. It basically took all of his strength to do that and he was dead tired at the end. It killed what, 50-100k trollocs. When you get 5mil or so (including Drakgahr, Fades etc..) thats something else.

 

Rand is special, he is the strongest, most skilled channeler alive. Only he could wreak that kind of destruction, and as he said, he wont be fighting against the trollocs etc..

any circle of 2 will beat a single foraken since they refuse to give over. so avienda/elayne linked could take out all the forsaken by themselves without linking or aided they are extremeley weak

 

The 3rd age channelers are hardly as good. Most of the white and black tower would get extremely tired after killing about 1000 shadowspawn each. We gotta take the good with the bad. Sa'angreal and such will definitely help, but not that much.

 

Wolves are not that great, it takes like 5 of them to kill a fade.

 

Lan's army is arlight i suppose. If left alone, it will kill like 100k trollocs and get wiped out. Not that good really.

 

The FoM presents the best armies, and when the Seanchan turn up, it will be pretty awesome , they will be hard pressed, btu still good.

 

Note on the Forsaken . They are much like Rand, being AoL. Moridin is at least as powerful. Demandred is nearly as powerful. Lanfear is extremely skilled, probably the best weaver. Moggy is kinda soft. Graendal is quite good. So even if they are onyl half as strong as Rand, it would still be like having 3 Rand's at Maradon. Thats gonna blow a whole lot of people away. People die easier than trollocs.

avienda and elayne linked can pretty much take all the forsaken since they refuse to link. give rand callandor he could solo 5 million trollocs by himself, i dont think the light are on enough of a downside atm coming into the last battle.

 

Think how bad gandalf and gondor were coming into there last fight, harry potter etc the light has it pretty good compared to everyone else, just getting moraine back with a tarangreal that makes her stronger then she was (she was a rank 14 aes sedai before 1 below mogediain so that puts her up = to demandred etc not to mention siuan will surely use the white towers owerrful sarangreal)

[Barid Bel Medar]

I have no idea where you get Moiraine = demandred.

 

She is only a bit stronger than she was before. Elayne/Egwene are much more powerful.

 

Demandred is twice as powerful as Moggy.

 

I think you overestimate the Light.

 

Graendal alone could destroy Elayne and Avi linked. Its not about power, but skill.

 

Moridin, Lanfear, Graendal and Demandred would thrash anyone bar Rand in channeling.

 

The light would have to take them by suprise.

 

Edit: obviously the light will have an easy time of it. Thats the way it is written. Just look at Mesaana.

 

But if we are talking what would be realistic, the Forsaken would win. The only way they could beat Demandred and Moridin would be Nynaeve/Egwene/Elayne linked, and they would have to be careful even then.

[Smittyphi]

avienda and elayne linked can pretty much take all the forsaken since they refuse to link. give rand callandor he could solo 5 million trollocs by himself, i dont think the light are on enough of a downside atm coming into the last battle.

 

Think how bad gandalf and gondor were coming into there last fight, harry potter etc the light has it pretty good compared to everyone else, just getting moraine back with a tarangreal that makes her stronger then she was (she was a rank 14 aes sedai before 1 below mogediain so that puts her up = to demandred etc not to mention siuan will surely use the white towers owerrful sarangreal)

 

Moiraine was a level 12 by these standards. At the end of ToM, she comments on how low she is and is referenced in the link. I would put her at a Cadsuane level with angreal she has. Why would Siuan "surely" use the White Towers strongest Sa'angreal? The Seanchan empire is in chaos despite Tuon as the Semirhage wiped out the royal family. The White Tower is split from Rand. Demandred is still loose, gathering power. Demandred is probably as powerful as Nynaeve, Cyndane and Moghedien are alive and Moridin is just crazy. All 4 of the forsaken have more channeling experience. Having Rand use a flawed Callandor, alone, was a great idea. Just ask Bashere and the rest of the crew.

 

Team light still has it bad.

[Barid Bel Medar]

People seem confused about Demandred's strength. He is one of the most powerful Forsaken, behind only Ishamael and Aginor. And second to only LTT on team light.

 

he is only a little weaker than Rand. Nynaeve, while strong for a woman, is still miles below Rand, Aginor, Demandred and Moridin.

 

Demandred is about 1-2 levels stronger than Lanfear. LTT is about 3 levels stronger.

[Smittyphi]

he is only a little weaker than Rand. Nynaeve, while strong for a woman, is still miles below Rand, Aginor, Demandred and Moridin.

 

Demandred is about 1-2 levels stronger than Lanfear. LTT is about 3 levels stronger.

 

There is no comparing women and men channeling. RJ never compared them nor did he develop a means to. Nyneave and Demandred are very strong channelers and while Demandred may be stronger, women are more "deft" in their weaving, making them more efficient.

[DocBean]

People seem confused about Demandred's strength. He is one of the most powerful Forsaken, behind only Ishamael and Aginor. And second to only LTT on team light.

 

he is only a little weaker than Rand. Nynaeve, while strong for a woman, is still miles below Rand, Aginor, Demandred and Moridin.

 

Demandred is about 1-2 levels stronger than Lanfear. LTT is about 3 levels stronger.

 

I've always wondered where Alivia would fall in the lineup of powerful channelers.

[Smittyphi]

People seem confused about Demandred's strength. He is one of the most powerful Forsaken, behind only Ishamael and Aginor. And second to only LTT on team light.

 

he is only a little weaker than Rand. Nynaeve, while strong for a woman, is still miles below Rand, Aginor, Demandred and Moridin.

 

Demandred is about 1-2 levels stronger than Lanfear. LTT is about 3 levels stronger.

 

I've always wondered where Alivia would fall in the lineup of powerful channelers.

Above Nynaeve, roughly equal to Cyndane

[DocBean]

People seem confused about Demandred's strength. He is one of the most powerful Forsaken, behind only Ishamael and Aginor. And second to only LTT on team light.

 

he is only a little weaker than Rand. Nynaeve, while strong for a woman, is still miles below Rand, Aginor, Demandred and Moridin.

 

Demandred is about 1-2 levels stronger than Lanfear. LTT is about 3 levels stronger.

 

I've always wondered where Alivia would fall in the lineup of powerful channelers.

Above Nynaeve, roughly equal to Cyndane

 

Didn't Cyndane say Alivia was more powerful then she was before the aelfinn and eelfinn held her?

...or was that because she was using a Ter'Angreal?

 

I always thought that it seemed odd that Cyndane would be so shocked that a channeler working with Rand would have access to an 'Angreal, so I assumed she meant Alivia was stronger even without it.

[Smittyphi]

People seem confused about Demandred's strength. He is one of the most powerful Forsaken, behind only Ishamael and Aginor. And second to only LTT on team light.

 

he is only a little weaker than Rand. Nynaeve, while strong for a woman, is still miles below Rand, Aginor, Demandred and Moridin.

 

Demandred is about 1-2 levels stronger than Lanfear. LTT is about 3 levels stronger.

 

I've always wondered where Alivia would fall in the lineup of powerful channelers.

Above Nynaeve, roughly equal to Cyndane

 

Didn't Cyndane say Alivia was more powerful then she was before the aelfinn and eelfinn held her?

...or was that because she was using a Ter'Angreal?

 

I always thought that it seemed odd that Cyndane would be so shocked that a channeler working with Rand would have access to an 'Angreal, so I assumed she meant Alivia was stronger even without it.

Yes, Cyndane said that and she was right because Alivia was holding an angreal. Ter'Angreal's do not amplify power, they give benefits like Mat's medallion and the paralis-net which hold small ter'angreal.

 

Cyndane would find it odd that a powerful channeler was working with Rand because for so long, the Forsaken were heads and shoulders above everyone. Cadsuane was the strongest Light channeler until Egwene, Elayne, Nynaeve and Aviendha came along. As far as having angreals to use, not sure.

[NitroS]

you talk about Grendel being a better weaver but that doesnt really mean much in randland, think rand against aginor, moraine against be-lal, balefire can counter any of the forsaken and rand had no idea what he was doing with half the battle in the earlier books. All the forsaken besides messanna tried to take out what 4 ashaman a black ajah sister and some aes sedai and they didnt technically die but they couldnt even beat any of the aes sedai in circles, yet ur saying put 3 of the strongest aes sedai of the age together and they cant compete with some fail circle with black ajah. The battle in winters heart explains how easy it was, Add in avienda reading all the tar greal and getting the white towers sar and tar angreal into the hands of aes sedai it will be alot easier. I think siuan will use the sar angreal because they wont let such a major character of the series be a nothing in the last battle hence why moraine had her tar angreal so i think she will either link with say moraine or be aided. Add in the obvious showdown with rand and demandred that has to happen considering his back story.

 

Question though how can siuan use a sar angreal when her power got dropped so much and u need a certain power level to use sar angreal that she only just made when she was full power?

[NitroS]

I have no idea where you get Moiraine = demandred.

 

She is only a bit stronger than she was before. Elayne/Egwene are much more powerful.

 

Demandred is twice as powerful as Moggy.

 

I think you overestimate the Light.

 

Graendal alone could destroy Elayne and Avi linked. Its not about power, but skill.

 

Moridin, Lanfear, Graendal and Demandred would thrash anyone bar Rand in channeling.

 

The light would have to take them by suprise.

 

Edit: obviously the light will have an easy time of it. Thats the way it is written. Just look at Mesaana.

 

But if we are talking what would be realistic, the Forsaken would win. The only way they could beat Demandred and Moridin would be Nynaeve/Egwene/Elayne linked, and they would have to be careful even then.

 

its not power but skill? what about moghedians 300+ years more experience in channeling over nyneave who were on the same power level but had not nearly the same skill level and nyneave virtually won, why is it different with grendal when the others are actually fully trained, how come all the forsaken were so fail in the cleansing of saidean i think you overestimate the shadow, also i didnt even mention the horn of valear which took out most of the seanchans armies and channelers...

[Barid Bel Medar]

Alright, this is getting too confusing. First Im talking about strength, then otheres talking about something else.

 

Nobodies fault, it is just hard when questions are not explained.

 

Ill leave it at that. Everyone has their own interpretation of who would likely beat who.

 

Aside from the actual rank in OP strength, we have no indication of the channelers skill or deftness.

 

Basically, it is anyone's guess.

 

Moiraine could beat Be'lal by sneaking up on him

 

That means a child could best the greatest cchanneler in the world. It is just too random if we are going into technicallities.

 

Forsaken are more skilled and have much more knowledge than anyone bar Rand.

 

The Forsaken killed have been luck on the part of the Light or sneak attacks.

[NitroS]

Lets be honest here do you really think that robert jordan would have his major characters killed off by random luck where a soldier knifes them in the back, no they will be hero deaths similar to moraines

[JKN-SW]

yea i supose but since no one can leave and the Logain supporters being out numbered if it really is 13x13 going on i dont see how they can last for long, since Rand will obviously be distracted with what he has to do with caemlyn burning, the meeting of all the nations and saving Lan (dont see how they will just kill Lan off by running him straight into trollocs i think its to obvious a death for him to die, im thinking similar to farramere in LOTR) and then the black tower.

 

I dont really see how the fight with the Dark one can go any differently outside the OP/TP/fighting unless ur thinking something similar to egwene vs messana but in a different way involving the bore.

 

I've never been a fan of the 13x13 theory regarding the BT. I think the split is more of a normal one. It's pretty easy to divide a larger group into smaller factions with a little manipulating, there are several experiments in RL showing this. Also I expexct Logains coming glory to be a part of this somehow.

 

It is hardly only a theory, is is pretty much certain that 13x13 is going down in the BT. Its much like we all knew who Noal was before ToM. It doesnt need to be said. and even if I grant you that there is no 13x13 going on, they are definitely turning people to the Shadow somehow. Tarna is completely changed. Mezar is another, Logain's man through and through, and now he turns, he smile evil and eyes hard. It is really quite plain that it is going on. There is nothing normal about the events in the BT. I am genuinly suprised that you think it is a normal split.

 

Regards to the original post, I think you underestimate the Shadow. Egwene didnt kill that many BA. 40 with the rebels and maximum of 20 in the Tower. Most of the others fled. There are still around 120 BA still about. Thats not including the DF wise ones, windfinders and other female channelers. Also, the BT is pretty much controlled by the Shadow, although I grant that it will be resolved soon, but there are still many Dreadlords that wont be killed in the BT confrontation. And 200k trollocs? thats an understatement to say the least. Graendal's ambush for Perrin was 50k strong by itself. Algarin's manor attack was at least 100k. No, there is far more than 200k. Id say around 5mil minimum. Thats not inculding the darkhounds, worms, Myrddraal, Drakghar, Grey Men, Forsaken, Dreadlords, Darkfriends, those Red-veiled fellas.

 

Not to mention the DO ripping the pattern to shreds already. All those bubbles of evil will be much much worse as the seals are broken.

 

Well, I may be wrong, I've never been any good at guessing what is going on. But if it is a 13*13 turning of the members of the BT, why would they leave some "out". The developement should be going faster and faster, the more turned ppl was there. Why not convert all male channelers, instead of alienating them? It seems kinda stupid. And if they have not had time to convert them yet, why treat them like outsuders and make them suspicious? Tha smart thing would be to act nortmal, kinda the way the BA has been working inside the WT. But then, not everyone in the books do what is smart, of course.

[Barid Bel Medar]

 

Well, I may be wrong, I've never been any good at guessing what is going on. But if it is a 13*13 turning of the members of the BT, why would they leave some "out". The developement should be going faster and faster, the more turned ppl was there. Why not convert all male channelers, instead of alienating them? It seems kinda stupid. And if they have not had time to convert them yet, why treat them like outsuders and make them suspicious? Tha smart thing would be to act nortmal, kinda the way the BA has been working inside the WT. But then, not everyone in the books do what is smart, of course.

 

Good questions all. However, I think they are explained pretty easily.

 

RJ: I have not abandoned this notion about a circle of thirteen Aes Sedai and thirteen Myrddraal can convert someone to the Shadow. It is not an easy situation to set up, in fact it's a very difficult situation to set up. It has to be worth the effort, you don't go to all of this effort to just convert anyone. In fact it might be better for your plans to manipulate someone against their will than as a willing ally.

 

They would go to the effort of converting only a few. Mezar, who is one of Logain's most powerful supporters (powerful in the OP aswell) he wont be easily 'manipulated', he is a staunch ally of Logain.

 

As for acting normal. Most of the Asha'man, even Taim's lackeys probably dont know that people are being turned. Also, Taim and co. are arrogant S.O.B's. They dont really care if anyone gets suspicious, they have much more power than Androl and co. they think they can just force their will upon them. As we see in ToM, what can they do? They cant stand up to Taim's men. They cant leave the Black Tower, cant travel because of D-S. They are trapped. When you have someone in prison, you dont have to act nice, you can do what you want.