Rand, Fain and the Dark One? (Spoilers of you havn't read books 3-8))

[Dashaan Vorsharn (MK_Kupa)]

So this is my theory.

 

I do not think that rand will kill the DO (Dark One). if you go back to when he went though the dorway tir'anragal they told him to live he must die... This is reminiscent of Lews Therin, living on in rands mind... But if rand kills the DO then there would be no need for the Pattern to spin out another Dragon for the 4th age. so he will die forever and not live again as a voice in the next Dragons mind.

 

This seems like something that should be discussed

[Terez]

Lews Therin and Rand are one and the same. Also, if the Dark One was destroyed, then Rand would still be reborn - he just wouldn't have to fight the Dark One. Other people are born without a real purpose, so why not him?

[spoke]

So this is my theory.

 

I do not think that rand will kill the DO (Dark One). if you go back to when he went though the dorway tir'anragal they told him to live he must die... This is reminiscent of Lews Therin, living on in rands mind... But if rand kills the DO then there would be no need for the Pattern to spin out another Dragon for the 4th age. so he will die forever and not live again as a voice in the next Dragons mind.

 

This seems like something that should be discussed

 

That assumes too much. You are assuming that Rand is spun out ONLY to fight the DO. As Aurthur Hawking said, he has battled on his side many times and fought against him as well. That does not mean that Rand's only purpose is to fight the dark one, but he has other purposes as well.

[Hyronimus]

It does raise the question on the nature of the Dragon.

 

Firstly why did the age of legends fellas even call him that? The simple answer (which took me ages to consider!) is an image of the great serpent 'unleashed'. Time and its influence on the pattern, or more clearly the Dragon is the pattern's very big stick. In this sense the Dragon is th pattern's most powerful Tav'aren(sp?) tool, with hawkwing a close second.

 

The point is that defeat of the darkone is not the pattern's goal so much as continuation of the wheel.

[Smiley73]

Rand cannot kill the DO, that would put the wheel out of balance ( like Moridin says “I doubt you can understand the magnitude of the stupidity in your statement” [To Rand, when Rand says he intends to kill the Dark One, The Gathering Storm, Chapter 15]). The pattern needs balance the Creator to the DO, Saidin to Saidar, etc. killing the DO, would unravel the pattern, there is a reason the DO is still around after so many turnings. if the pattern did not unravel I'm sure it would just generate another DO, he is unkillable because we need him for the balance

 

My pet theory about Fain is that he will be killed by Renald Falwer (the farmer from the prologue of tGS)

[Mordaunt]

DO won't be killed, he will agree to be imprisoned once more to get Rand's help defeating Fain. Yes, the DO is going to ask the Dragon for help.

[aball]

Mordaunt, that sounds too much like the plot to Matrix Revolutions. The thought makes me shudder in fear and loathing.

[Mordaunt]

I've maintained Fain is Agent Smith for at least 8 years now :)

[OptimusPrime]

I've maintained Fain is Agent Smith for at least 8 years now :)

 

I thought that as well, especially when Smith copies himself onto someone, looks like Fain stabbing them. Plus the whole rebelling against the system thing.

 

My bet is that the Dark One CAN be killed, but that doing so would cause the Pattern to end. I imagine the Pattern to be like the Creators shield on the Dark One, with the Wheel or maybe even the True Source being the hard/soft points that maintain the shield indefinitely. But its like a normal shield. If Rand shields Moridin, and then Moridin dies while shielded, what happens to the shield? Could Rand maintain that same shield on nothing? Would he, if he found out the shield was alive? If the Dark One dies, then something must be put in his place, otherwise the Wheel has no need to exist, theres no Dark One for events to be shaped around, no need for cyclical time. No need for the prison, which is the Pattern, which is the world as they know it.

 

That isnt to say I think the Dark One WILL be killed, nor is it to say I think time WILL become cyclical.

[dokfeelg00d]

So if Rand were to be able to kill the DO then the balance of Creator/DO would be broken and the pattern would unravel... Or would it? If the wheel stopped turning could time/existence flatten itself out into a more linear pattern that is not driven by the power? The issue that I am having with the balance here is that the creator is very "hands-off" and uses a champion to fight for the balance against the DO..

 

That being said, if the DO no longer exists then wouldn't the Dragon get put away permanently? It seems that the pattern using Ta'veren in the way it does would mean that there is no more need for a dragon if there was a true final battle.

 

That or the DO wins and destroys the pattern just to troll the creator. U mad bro?

[WhiskyJack]

I am just curious....How exactly DO will die? We have yet to see any power except creator capable of achieving such a feat (even that is doubtful). I am not sure if people sometimes comprehend what DO is...

[Bluedust9]

I am just curious....How exactly DO will die? We have yet to see any power except creator capable of achieving such a feat (even that is doubtful). I am not sure if people sometimes comprehend what DO is...

 

The Taint (The DO) was destroyed by Mordeth's power. And as per Rand's wound, sometimes it's not about destroying it, just distracting it while you seal it away with Saidar and Saidin.

[WhiskyJack]

I am just curious....How exactly DO will die? We have yet to see any power except creator capable of achieving such a feat (even that is doubtful). I am not sure if people sometimes comprehend what DO is...

 

The Taint (The DO) was destroyed by Mordeth's power. And as per Rand's wound, sometimes it's not about destroying it, just distracting it while you seal it away with Saidar and Saidin.

 

Taint was NOT DO. Even Nynaeve was able to destroy taint in Asha'man's mind.

[Smiley73]

the taint was cause by a backlash when the DO was sealed it is not near his power, not that i'm a darkfriend or anything

the DO is the antithesis (basically the polar opposite) of the creator, sealed at the moment of creation, assuming that is true the creator may or may not have made the DO, depending on how all powerful he is, did he create the DO or was the DO made by a higher entity of balnce to counteract the creator.

 

Is the creator willingly uninvolved in the pattern? if he is not omnipotent he may be restricted in what he can or cannot do by the force of balance, as Verin said we don't know the DO, and we don't, but we do not know what the Creator is either. Is he as benevolent as the masses say, well for the most part I'm pretty sure the Darkfriends have got it wrong.

 

Is the Creator an entity or a force of nature, were he an entity sort of like what the DO is made out to be (he has talked to the Forsaken, Fain etc.), if he was the voice from tEotW he would probably be an entity, a god of sorts. If he was a force of nature though it could show the reason for his uninvolvement, as a force it he might not have any interest or means to take action. that does make two questions though, what or who was that voice in tEotW and is the DO stronger than the Creator, as the DO has the power to influence the pattern ( maybe because he is bound by it) or is the creator too uninterested to try and be involved

 

Does anyone follow this at all???

[WhiskyJack]

Creator's lack of interest I think shows that DO doesn't stand any chance against him and he can throw DO in another prison whenever he desires so.