To Live You Must Die

[KaptainKaos]

Who knows if the power that has Lews Therin in Rand's head is connected to the Light or the Dark and if it is connected to the Dark One as I suspect it being since the taint and madness seem to be what caused it in the first place then the Dark One will be defeated in the Last Battle and hopefully that will end Rand's madness. Or maybe when the merge with Moridin happens and Lews Therin knows that Ishamael is defeated he will somehow go away when Moridin dies. Or if you are Majsju or one of his fellows then you are simply saying who cares who is in Rand's head because he is going to be dead. :cry:

[racha_giurgiu]

:: pets kaptains hair :: it's going to be okay. Rand is going to be okay hunny. Don't you worry.

[maximus34]

its not so much as a "who cares" kinda attitude, as much as the fact that... Rands gonna fight the DO, not be killed by Ishy, body switch/ mind merge be damned.

[Gentled Ben]

Do you think he'll stay dead, Maj, or do you think there is another way to live after dying?

[Centrino]

Has anyone given any thought to the prophecy possibly talking about two distinct people, The Dragon (LTT) and the Dragon Reborn (Rand)both exisiting in the same time frame. If that is the case things could get more interesting as what we took for fact gets turned on it's head :?: .

[moroten]

I have the theory which I believe can be true (despite what Luckers say).

 

When Rand asked how to win the last battle and survive in Tear the Eelfinn saw him as the dragon reborn and not Rand al'thor. In order for the dragon reborn to live he has to join the wheel of time again meaning the shell he still lives in must die.

 

This does not however answer the viewing wiht the 3 women on boat and a man, but most other fits it.

[Guest Majsju]

Do you think he'll stay dead, Maj, or do you think there is another way to live after dying?

 

He better stayd dead. After all, there is as far as we know only one way to get brought back from life, and for that to happen Rand would have to switch teams, which seems kinda not so likely to happen...

 

When Rand asked how to win the last battle and survive in Tear the Eelfinn saw him as the dragon reborn and not Rand al'thor. In order for the dragon reborn to live he has to join the wheel of time again meaning the shell he still lives in must die.

 

This does fit with my idea why the shadow has been so interested in turning Rand, rather than simply killing him on the spot. If he is killed, he will be reborn, and the battle can go on some other time. If he switches team, the DO can grant him immortality, and the Dragon becomes the shadows new champion. Which most likely would result in a KO victory for the shadow.

[Luckers]

I don't think thats implausible either. I mean, yeah, im a fan of the body-swap... for reasons simply that i think that it is what RJ is working towards, not because i would do it myself. I too find it cheesy.

 

But that the prophecy refers to the him in the sense of the ongoing existence of his soul... its certainly not implausible.

[moroten]

I don't think thats implausible either. I mean' date=' yeah, im a fan of the body-swap... for reasons simply that i think that it is what RJ is working towards, not because i would do it myself. I too find it cheesy.

 

But that the prophecy refers to the him in the sense of the ongoing existence of his soul... its certainly not implausible.[/quote']

 

Are you saying that you actually agree with me? Or that you cant find the argument against it. Either way it is big :D

[demonspawn]

I think Rand will die at the end of TG and would like to see the epilogue where it's Artur Hawkwing and the Hundred Heroes standing shrouded in mist and they welcome Lews Therin back waiting to be cast out again.

 

AH:"Welcome back, Lews Therin"

 

LTT:"Must it always be like this?"

 

AH:"The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills"

 

A bit of a lump in the throat moment don't you think?

[Luckers]

I can't find an argument against it... and i dont mean that it a bitchy, its a solid theory, i just choose to buy into the body swap one.

[mandella]

I think Rand is going to be so messed up by the time he reaches the last battle, that for some lame reason the dark one is gonna posses him and be easy pickings for everyone else. So Rand dies...

 

Dark one brings Rand back to see the end of the world. So Rand lives...

 

Somehow Logain slays the dark one in Rand's body... and fulfills Min's vision of glory.

 

Now how do Mat and Perrin fit into this? I think Matt somehow uses his luck to put Logain in the right place at the right time to do the deed. The horn valere and perrins wolves are probably just necessary fodder like everyone else at the last battle. Maybe the wolves add to the "battlefield reconnisance" necessary to Matt's tactics since they communicate so fast over distances.

[demonspawn]

If there is going to be any "slaying" of Rand it's more likely to be Alivia the ex-Damane who will "help Rand die".

Maybe this will happen and Logain will take control of the "Forces of Light" and finish off the Last Battle thus gaining his glory.

[beklein]

new to the forums, but i'll jump right in. ive always leaned toward LTT would be the one to die and Rand would live.

 

after reading this post however, i have another thought. how about balefire? rand could die, in he grief Elayne uses bale fire, erases the one who killed him, back past the point he killed Rand. we are back just before dawn and Rand is alive.

 

 

as a newbie i should read more posts first, this is in all likelyhood an old idea of someone elses already torn to shreads.

[moroten]

I think Rand is going to be so messed up by the time he reaches the last battle' date=' that for some lame reason the dark one is gonna posses him and be easy pickings for everyone else. So Rand dies...

 

Dark one brings Rand back to see the end of the world. So Rand lives...

 

Somehow Logain slays the dark one in Rand's body... and fulfills Min's vision of glory.

 

Now how do Mat and Perrin fit into this? I think Matt somehow uses his luck to put Logain in the right place at the right time to do the deed. The horn valere and perrins wolves are probably just necessary fodder like everyone else at the last battle. Maybe the wolves add to the "battlefield reconnisance" necessary to Matt's tactics since they communicate so fast over distances.[/quote']

 

Not be an asshole but this was probably the worst theory I have read so far.

 

Rand doesnt need Mat's taveren luck for something he needs, if he needs it he will simply find it there.

[Zardi]

rand could die, in he grief Elayne uses bale fire, erases the one who killed him, back past the point he killed Rand. we are back just before dawn and Rand is alive.

Balefire does not roll back time, it only causes someone to be killed in the past, therefore partially burning the thread out of the pattern. It wouldn't cause two dawns.

[Isthanful]

Personally, I've always thought of the phrase "The Dragon's blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul", as a weird reference to LTT. This may of course be wrong, but it also seems right, as Robert Jordan puts alot of weight into tiny details and foreshadowing.

 

I actually believe that LTT is not only one of Rand's personalities, but a real "soul" inside his head. As shown in Knife of Dreams, Rand is beginning to loose control over Lews Therin and we actually see him make a pact of dying at Tarmon Gai'don. Through the last books the message that's been burned into our minds, about Rand, is that he only cares about winning the Last Battle. As LTT has a greater knowledge and experience with Saidin, he has a greater chance at winning, so the two merge totally during TG.

 

Also; LTT did not show up in Rand's head until after he began to channel. Therefore I believe that LTT is connected with Rand through Saidin. And then, the trumph-card of my theory: During the entire series channeling has been described as life itself. Therefore he would in a way "die" if he burned out. This again leads to my theory of LTT and Rand being connected through the Power, as LTT's only hold on the modern world is through Saidin.

 

Now, tear my dear theory apart. But be gentle, it's my first time

[mandella]

well, you can think my theory sucks but whatever. At least its different that then 10 previous ones. Prophecy is self fulfilling and I'm pretty sure the dark one isn't going to let Rand die if that is a condition for his defeat. Somehow that will be his undoing.

[Luckers]

Isthanful, LTT IS a true personality, but he is not a seperate soul. The reason he rocked up after Rand started channeling was that the taint catalysed a mental instability allow for a previous lifes facet personality to manifest itself--according to graendal such things happened even before the taint, and the only way to deal with it was reintergration, not seperation... i really doubt thats even possible.

[Sterling]

I'm not sure WHO will die in Tarmon Gaidon really, because I think even Rand will survive. I think it'll play out like this:

 

Rand is locked in battle with the DO, and the only way out is death for both. (Maybe he has to "Sheath the Sword"). Then after he is dead, Dalmer Flynn and Nynaeve will summon as much of the One Power as they can summon, using s'angreal or whatever, and try to resurrect Rand or keep him from dying. (This would also fit because Nynaeve is sure that even death could be healed and said she'd find a way).

 

Rand will live, but they will have used so much that it will have burned the One Power out. Not out of existence entirely, (something has to turn the wheel of time) but burned it our of reach. Thus, the Fourth Age begins with the Dark One away from this plane and Saidar and Saidin needing to be rediscovered.

 

Maybe one of the effects will also be that other things of the Age of Legends and other times will be burned out aswell, i.e. Min's visions and Lews Therrin.

 

Just my Theory. Can I back it up? Not really.

[Gentled Ben]

I don't really buy it, but I don't think it's entirely without merit. For one thing, it would explain why we don't have access to the Source in this Age.

[Guest Majsju]

One of several problems with that theory is that Rand and Nynaeve used far more power than Nynaeve and Flynn could possibly use, even if they gathered every single angreal that still existed. And the One Power doesn't appear to have been effected by the Cleansing, other then Saidin being cleansed from the taint.

 

What we know is that the One Power can not be known in the 1st Age, which means most likely not in the 7th either. That still leaves three entire Ages for the access to the OP to disappear.

[Magicana]

I'm not sure WHO will die in Tarmon Gaidon really' date=' because I think even Rand will survive. I think it'll play out like this:

 

Rand is locked in battle with the DO, and the only way out is death for both. (Maybe he has to "Sheath the Sword"). Then after he is dead, Dalmer Flynn and Nynaeve will summon as much of the One Power as they can summon, using s'angreal or whatever, and try to resurrect Rand or keep him from dying. (This would also fit because Nynaeve is sure that even death could be healed and said she'd find a way).

 

Rand will live, but they will have used so much that it will have burned the One Power out. Not out of existence entirely, (something has to turn the wheel of time) but burned it our of reach. Thus, the Fourth Age begins with the Dark One away from this plane and Saidar and Saidin needing to be rediscovered.

 

Maybe one of the effects will also be that other things of the Age of Legends and other times will be burned out aswell, i.e. Min's visions and Lews Therrin.

 

Just my Theory. Can I back it up? Not really.[/quote']

 

Using the one power is described like using a mill. You could pour the whole river through it, but you still get all the water out in the end ;)

[RobertAlexWillis]

It seems most likely to me that knowledge of the One Power will eventually dissapear (over the course of an Age or so) because the ability to wield it will dissapear from the people, not because the Power itself will change in any way. According to the my understanding of the philosophy of the Wheel, if the Power somehow "runs out", time ceases to function.

[Sterling]

I agree that Rand and Nynaeve handled more of the OP than Damer and Nynaeve could, so I guess I'd have to alter my theory before I could even buy it. I don't know, maybe the DO acts as a counter-measure to the OP, and if he has been sealed off again, the OP can't be wielded ? Well it was worth a shot. But however it pans out, I believe Rand will live, LTT will die, the DO will be sealed away to be re-discovered and the OP will be forgotten somehow before the end (or should I say before the beginning of the Fourth Age). I mean something big has to happen for people to just forget to channel. I guess it could be over the course of an age or so though, that sounds OK to me.

 

I appreciate everyone approaching my idea so diplomatically. It's a lot nicer than some responses I read. I think everyone shoud view everyone else's ideas with the same politeness everyone showed my idea.