Egwenes dream about seanchan saving her

[Gympok]

In Crossroads of twilight, chapter 20 Egwene has a dream where "Egwene walks a ledge on a cliff. The ledge collapses leaving her hanging by her fingertips. A Seanchan woman climbs down the cliff and offers to help." (taken from wot encyclopaedia).

 

I dont remember this happening. Has it and i just dont remember? Or does anyone have any idea what this is referring to?

 

Thanks

[Finnssss22]

In Crossroads of twilight, chapter 20 Egwene has a dream where "Egwene walks a ledge on a cliff. The ledge collapses leaving her hanging by her fingertips. A Seanchan woman climbs down the cliff and offers to help." (taken from wot encyclopaedia).

 

I dont remember this happening. Has it and i just dont remember? Or does anyone have any idea what this is referring to?

 

Thanks

 

Most feel it has yet to happen and theories abound of course.

Some think it will be Egeanin or General Tylee because of the sword on the Seanchan woman's back in the vision. Others think Tuon.

 

Personally I'm in with the Tylee folk over the Egeanin folk by a hair.

[Sleeper]

In Crossroads of twilight, chapter 20 Egwene has a dream where "Egwene walks a ledge on a cliff. The ledge collapses leaving her hanging by her fingertips. A Seanchan woman climbs down the cliff and offers to help." (taken from wot encyclopaedia).

 

I dont remember this happening. Has it and i just dont remember? Or does anyone have any idea what this is referring to?

 

Thanks

 

Most feel it has yet to happen and theories abound of course.

Some think it will be Egeanin or General Tylee because of the sword on the Seanchan woman's back in the vision. Others think Tuon.

 

Personally I'm in with the Tylee folk over the Egeanin folk by a hair.

Yeah, I agree.

 

It probably will have something to do with the fact Tylee is a pretty high-ranking officer and has quite a lot of experience with Randlanders, and thus doesn't have the warped perception of them that the general Seanchan populace does. Plus, she's met Trollocs. She'll probably be important in bridging the gap between the beliefs of the Seanchan and Randlanders.

[Luckers]

My belief is that it refers to an army led by Fortuona. In the dream the woman's face is indistinct, but the sword is solid--the important part, the dream cites. So, the sword describes the nature as militant, the shifty, indistinct face describes it as many people [combining to suggest an army], and the figure is over all feminine as the army is driving by Fortuona's will.

 

My guess is that a Seanchan army will relieve a siege on Tar Valon, or something of the sort. This will come after something happens to make Fortuona realise that the Shadow is a threat which all else must be set aside to deal with (which I suspect will be Rand's doing--the whole binding the nine moons to serve him).

[Finnssss22]

My belief is that it refers to an army led by Fortuona. In the dream the woman's face is indistinct, but the sword is solid--the important part, the dream cites. So, the sword describes the nature as militant, the shifty, indistinct face describes it as many people [combining to suggest an army], and the figure is over all feminine as the army is driving by Fortuona's will.

 

My guess is that a Seanchan army will relieve a siege on Tar Valon, or something of the sort. This will come after something happens to make Fortuona realise that the Shadow is a threat which all else must be set aside to deal with (which I suspect will be Rand's doing--the whole binding the nine moons to serve him).

 

 

Hmmm...that's not bad Luckers, maybe even take it a step further with the sword representing Justice, after as many believe, Rand will give to her.

 

I think I'll stick with Tylee for now but that's not bad at all.

[Luckers]

Nah, the solidity of the sword in the dream--the fact that it, of all the dream, seems the most significant, means to me that it is the sword which is the telling aspect--it is what gives away that the woman is an army led to Egwene's aid.

 

And if it represents the army, I doubt it is meant to be anything else. Plus, I don't believe Justice will play any significant role.

[Finnssss22]

Nah, the solidity of the sword in the dream--the fact that it, of all the dream, seems the most significant, means to me that it is the sword which is the telling aspect--it is what gives away that the woman is an army led to Egwene's aid.

 

And if it represents the army, I doubt it is meant to be anything else. Plus, I don't believe Justice will play any significant role.

 

 

Fair enough, though I have to disagree about Justice not playing any significant role. I definitely see it being a factor in the Seanchan "negotiations".

 

Ta'veren finding things they need even before they know they need them just screams at me and besides it would just be crappy to introduce it and then let it rot.

 

 

....and maybe stretching it a bit but...

 

“And it shall come to pass, in the days when the Dark Hunt rides, when the right hand falters and the left hand strays, that mankind shall come to the Crossroads of Twilight, and all that is, all that was, and all that will be shall balance on the point of a sword, while the winds of the Shadow grow.”

[Terez]

Nah, the solidity of the sword in the dream--the fact that it, of all the dream, seems the most significant, means to me that it is the sword which is the telling aspect--it is what gives away that the woman is an army led to Egwene's aid.

I agree that the sword is the most important part, obviously, but I also think it's Justice, partly because it seems to be an important concept for both of them. I did some searching on the issue because I remembered that both of them thought themselves representative of justice, and I knew I could find quotes for both. I didn't expect to find two that were connected, though. (This resulted in my last tweet to Brandon). To take the TGS quote further, she considered the damane and soldiers 'unfortunate casualties' - all of her anger was directed at sul'dam, which would of course include Tuon - her above all others. Most of the other quotes that came up for 'justice' were from Grays and Whitecloaks and rulers, but there were a few in relation to the Seanchan as well - notably from the Tinkers who were headed to Ebou Dar for protection. And then there's the idea that Justice was originally Guaire Amalasan's sword, and the further idea that Hawkwing named it so because of what it represented to him - taking a dangerous channeler to the White Tower for justice. Obviously, though, it would have meant more to Hawkwing than that, just as Tuon's idea of justice is larger than that, but Egwene's only real beef with the Seanchan aside from their determination to conquer all of Randland is the issue of collaring channelers.

 

There are a number of ways that dream can work out, but I imagine that at the center of it is the damane/sul'dam issue, and Egwene's struggle in the dream is very personal. Some might say it's a little too predictable, but I imagine that the Mesaana incident in Tel'aran'rhiod was just a warm-up for Tuon holding her leash in the real world. Egwene won't be able to stop someone as skilled as Tuon from using her own Power against her, probably, but she will be able to withstand the abuse. Perhaps the main purpose of her training with the Aiel and her suffering on the road to becoming Amyrlin was to prepare her to show Tuon that the a'dam can be defeated. That might be a twisted way of interpreting the dream, but in a way, it isn't really. Elaida handed Egwene her victory when she captured her, and Tuon capturing her might do the same.

 

Another interpretation that makes sense is that Tuon has the damane revelation before she meets Egwene. In that case, it all depends on how soon the festivities are interrupted by the Black Tower. Will Tuon attack it and save the day? Will Logain make a deal with the Seanchan like Tallanvor did? Will Rand leave to deal with it while Egwene and Co are attacked? Rand has been very open and public about his plans for Merrilor, and it's hard to believe that Tuon did not learn of it in a month's time. But it is easier to envision Egwene's personal struggle as being against the a'dam.

 

I also agree that Tuon's army is important. She thinks her armies are going to defeat those who serve the Shadow, and she's probably right. But I think the sword represents Justice - both the sword itself and the concept behind it.

[Durinax]

In Crossroads of twilight, chapter 20 Egwene has a dream where "Egwene walks a ledge on a cliff. The ledge collapses leaving her hanging by her fingertips. A Seanchan woman climbs down the cliff and offers to help." (taken from wot encyclopaedia).

 

I dont remember this happening. Has it and i just dont remember? Or does anyone have any idea what this is referring to?

 

Thanks

it already happened, Egwenes taking the tower arc

 

egwene described it as walking a very fine line (cliff)

 

the Seanchan saved her from either execution or being doped up with enough forkroot to make her unable to think.

[Elan Tedronai]

the seanchan already saved egwene by attacking the white tower when she was held as a captive. the dream has been fulfilled. Move on already

[herid]

Nah, the solidity of the sword in the dream--the fact that it, of all the dream, seems the most significant, means to me that it is the sword which is the telling aspect--it is what gives away that the woman is an army led to Egwene's aid.

I agree that the sword is the most important part, obviously, but I also think it's Justice, partly because it seems to be an important concept for both of them. I did some searching on the issue because I remembered that both of them thought themselves representative of justice, and I knew I could find quotes for both. I didn't expect to find two that were connected, though. (This resulted in my last tweet to Brandon). To take the TGS quote further, she considered the damane and soldiers 'unfortunate casualties' - all of her anger was directed at sul'dam, which would of course include Tuon - her above all others. Most of the other quotes that came up for 'justice' were from Grays and Whitecloaks and rulers, but there were a few in relation to the Seanchan as well - notably from the Tinkers who were headed to Ebou Dar for protection. And then there's the idea that Justice was originally Guaire Amalasan's sword, and the further idea that Hawkwing named it so because of what it represented to him - taking a dangerous channeler to the White Tower for justice. Obviously, though, it would have meant more to Hawkwing than that, just as Tuon's idea of justice is larger than that, but Egwene's only real beef with the Seanchan aside from their determination to conquer all of Randland is the issue of collaring channelers.

 

There are a number of ways that dream can work out, but I imagine that at the center of it is the damane/sul'dam issue, and Egwene's struggle in the dream is very personal. Some might say it's a little too predictable, but I imagine that the Mesaana incident in Tel'aran'rhiod was just a warm-up for Tuon holding her leash in the real world. Egwene won't be able to stop someone as skilled as Tuon from using her own Power against her, probably, but she will be able to withstand the abuse. Perhaps the main purpose of her training with the Aiel and her suffering on the road to becoming Amyrlin was to prepare her to show Tuon that the a'dam can be defeated. That might be a twisted way of interpreting the dream, but in a way, it isn't really. Elaida handed Egwene her victory when she captured her, and Tuon capturing her might do the same.

 

Another interpretation that makes sense is that Tuon has the damane revelation before she meets Egwene. In that case, it all depends on how soon the festivities are interrupted by the Black Tower. Will Tuon attack it and save the day? Will Logain make a deal with the Seanchan like Tallanvor did? Will Rand leave to deal with it while Egwene and Co are attacked? Rand has been very open and public about his plans for Merrilor, and it's hard to believe that Tuon did not learn of it in a month's time. But it is easier to envision Egwene's personal struggle as being against the a'dam.

 

I also agree that Tuon's army is important. She thinks her armies are going to defeat those who serve the Shadow, and she's probably right. But I think the sword represents Justice - both the sword itself and the concept behind it.

I now think that you may be right about the woman being Tuon and the sword Justice but I have a hard time seeing Tuon trying to break Egwene with an a'dam. I thought about this possibility in relation with another dream of a golden hawk touching Egwene and the two becoming linked somehow (linked by an a'dam) but that would explicitly make Tuon a torturer and I find it impossible to see how that can ever be justified for such supposedly light sided character. Maybe Egwene will get leashed but I don't think Tuon will be the one trying to break her.

 

Also, if the sword is Justice I would think that Tuon's change of mind about damane should occur before she gets the sword. I don't see the new Rand striking a deal with Tuon and giving her Justice with the damane issue left unresolved.

[Luckers]

it already happened, Egwenes taking the tower arc

 

egwene described it as walking a very fine line (cliff)

 

the Seanchan saved her from either execution or being doped up with enough forkroot to make her unable to think.

 

 

the seanchan already saved egwene by attacking the white tower when she was held as a captive. the dream has been fulfilled. Move on already

 

Sorry guys, Brandon confirmed that the the Seanchan attack on the Tower did not fulfil that dream.

 

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Borders Dallas 14 November 2009 - Matoyak reporting

 

 

Mato: Have the visions and other such prophecies about Egwene and the Seanchan (such as the running one and the one with the sword) have they been fulfilled yet?

Sanderson: No, none of those have been fulfilled other than the attack on the White Tower. She still has more to go.

[mb]

Has not been fulfilled up through Gathering Storm.

 

My interpretation has been it being an individual instead of an army. Seanchan female with a sword.

Possible candidates::

-Egeanin/Leilwin

-Tuon/Fortuona

-one of the bloodknives

 

Possible events::

-Shadowspawn (or Forsaken-sent military) attacking White Tower

-Miasma caused situation

-Another civil war

There may be more.

[Terez]

The Bloodknives were all killed in TOM, so that's no longer an option.

[Finnssss22]

The Bloodknives were all killed in TOM, so that's no longer an option.

 

Technically only 4 of the 5 were killed in ToM and 1 in tGS.

 

I think people often forget about the one Bryne killed, not you, others, before you jump on me for inferring it in any way

[Terez]

I didn't forget anything, and I doubt anyone else did either. After TGS, there were only four remaining, and they were all killed in TOM.

[Sharaman]

Two Seanchan-related narrative arcs centred on Egwene could mean this dream being fulfilled.

One, Egeanin left for TV in ToM along with Teslyn, Edisina, Joline.

So she could be around with Egwene's camp in FoM and might save her from something.

Two, Fortuona is planning another (bigger) assault on the WT and it's possible that this new attack will trigger some sort of "save" if it comes at an awkward moment for Egwene.

[Finnssss22]

Two Seanchan-related narrative arcs centred on Egwene could mean this dream being fulfilled.

One, Egeanin left for TV in ToM along with Teslyn, Edisina, Joline.

So she could be around with Egwene's camp in FoM and might save her from something.

Two, Fortuona is planning another (bigger) assault on the WT and it's possible that this new attack will trigger some sort of "save" if it comes at an awkward moment for Egwene.

 

...Lieutenant-General Tylee could be the one leading the bigger assault as well.

 

Two literal possibilities and one metaphysical.