Moiraine Unwove a Weave

[Mandro]

As Everyone is leaving Malkier near the end of TeoTW. there is a line, (it's imperfect.) "Moiraine openened her eyes, and started down the hill. "For me to remove the last vestige of what I did last night. The residues would have faded on their own within a day, but I will not take any risk I can avoid now, we are took close, and the shadow is too strong here."

 

Also notice that in this passage, the "indicators" (I like pets, so I use that term) for a woman sensing a woman channeling are rubbing arms and shivvering, and a Man sensing channeling is sweating and a headache, but I imagine that has been covered, but the unweaving a weave is supposedly "impossible." yet Moiraine can do it. Exactly how many things did Elayne, Nynaeve and Egwene have to learn from Moghedian for the AS to admit their own abilities?

 

(another part of why I hate the way the women are written in this series, they are so flogging petty.)

[MattTaz]

Thats an interesting catch. I always thought Avi would help unweave the Bore

But if Moiraine can do it, and we know she will help Rand in some way. Nice one thanks :)

[Terez]

I've considered this before. It might simply be that Moiraine knows of a way to remove residue that the Aiel are unaware of, but it's incredibly doubtful that she unwove something with her eyes closed.

[dwn]

I read it as:

 

1) Moiraine had tied off the ward and thereby had to actually channel to untie it. She didn't need to waste the strength to do so, since the weave would unravel on its own eventually, but leaving it in place could attract attention. The use of 'residue' should be read as 'residue of her being there'.

 

2) TEotW has many askew descriptions of how we've come to understand the world and channeling. This is one of them.

 

-- dwn

[Mandro]

I've considered this before. It might simply be that Moiraine knows of a way to remove residue that the Aiel are unaware of, but it's incredibly doubtful that she unwove something with her eyes closed.

 

I'm pretty sure that the "eyes closed" part, is about her recovering from the strain, because it is after Rand observes the headache, and the heat, and Nyn, and that vile chick who is amyrlin are rubbing their arms, just as mat asked "What are we waiting for." so the eyes closed thing doesn't apply. Not to mention one of Logains Gaidshain AS mentioned that "most believe you have to see the weave to control it." So that is a non participant in my opinion.

 

I am somewhat new to believing that Jordan had as thorough an outline as he mentioned from very early on, until I have been re-reading recently. Example In SL/Aridhol Mat gets pulled off his horse? do you remember how? A horse loop. I don't know. I am starting to REALY REALLY appreciate his scientific approach, he might have shifted a couple things up, or left them vague, but it looks like all was built from day one. I'm quite impressed.

 

GRRM can lick Jordans Ballistae.

[Terez]

I've considered this before. It might simply be that Moiraine knows of a way to remove residue that the Aiel are unaware of, but it's incredibly doubtful that she unwove something with her eyes closed.

 

I'm pretty sure that the "eyes closed" part, is about her recovering from the strain, because it is after Rand observes the headache, and the heat, and Nyn, and that vile chick who is amyrlin are rubbing their arms, just as mat asked "What are we waiting for."

No, it's not after.

 

After the wicker panniers were fastened on the packhorse, after every scrap and smudge and track were gone and everyone else was mounted, the Aes Sedai stood in the middle of the hilltop with her eyes closed, not even seeming to breathe. Nothing happened that Rand could see, except that Nynaeve and Egwene shivered despite the heat and rubbed their arms briskly. Egwene's hands suddenly froze on her arms, and she opened her mouth, staring at the Wisdom. Before she could speak, Nynaeve also ceased her rubbing and gave her a sharp look. The two women looked at one another, then Egwene nodded and grinned, and after a moment Nynaeve did, too, though her smile was only halfhearted.

 

Rand scrubbed his fingers through his hair, already more damp with sweat than with the water he had splashed in his face. He was sure there was something in the silent exchange that he should understand, but that feather-light brush across his mind vanished before he could grasp it.

 

"What are we waiting for?" Mat demanded, the low band of his scarf across his forehead. He had his bow across the pommel of his saddle with an arrow nocked, and his quiver pulled around on his belt for an easy reach.

Clearly her eyes were closed while she did whatever she was doing.

[icspots]

As far as what Moiraine did there are two possibilities... well three.

 

1) As noted she likely tied off the ward she set the night before. In fact she had to tie it off since she wouldn't be able to channel anything but spirit while asleep, and presumably the ward has other elements to it. As has been stated multiple times through the series tied off weaves can be tied so that they unravel after a time. ie: Sammael knotting the gateways he used to disperse the Shaido and closed at random times (except for the last one he held himself). So it's possible that she was simply untying the ward and letting it dissipate right then vs. letting it continue to stand until it unraveled.

 

2) She may have unwoven the ward. This is unlikely for several reasons. One the fact that per Merilille's reaction to Aviendha unweaving her gateway shows that this is absolutely anathema to Aes Sedai, and the results of Elayne failing to do the same thing shortly thereafter demonstrate why it's unpredictability is so dangerous. Two her eyes were closed. While it's possible to weave, or to control a weave without seeing it it seems much different than unweaving. The comment about the Ash'aman and seeing the weaves was in reference to him having a block (or bar I think they called it). He thought that he couldn't channel unless he could see the weaves. The reason I say it's unlikely that she unwove the ward with her eyes closed is specifically because of how much Elayne noted needing to see the threads of the gateway she unwove.

 

3) Jordan messed up. Either he phrased it incorrectly or he hadn't quite worked out the details of how everything worked. It wouldn't be the only thing in the first book like that.

 

 

On to people's reactions to channeling with woman shivering and men sweating, they aren't really related. Both Egwene and Nynaeve sensed Moiraine channeling (or holding the power) but neither was far enough along in her training to notice the glow yet. Rand wasn't sweating because he felt a woman channeling. He was sweating because he was in the Blight and it's crazy hot. Also it's been pointed out multiple times that men feel a woman's channeling as cold chills. All of this is of course my $.02

[Awakened]

Maybe there are ways to destroy a weave beyond simply unweaving it.Maybe she was able to simply decay it or something.

[Mandro]

Well it is clear that RJ didn't work out the mechanics in the early books, so every other description is valid. I would like to think that Moiraine was a NINJA AS with a heart of gold, rather than lucky participant with a heart of cold like That rotten chick who is currently Amyrlin.

[haloun]

again the act of seeing is as necessary for elayne to channel as it is for her to unravel perhaps for moiraine she has discovered certain things that most aes sedai would only dream of already. why not that as well. so the majority of aes sedai have issues unraveling the weave, but obviously the aiel dont have any problems with it, avi unravels a gateway without even complentating what she is doing, and a simple ward to alert you of somethings presence, is far less complex than a gateway. i dont have a hard time believing that she unraveled the weave.

[Mr Ares]

As far as what Moiraine did there are two possibilities... well three.

 

1) So it's possible that she was simply untying the ward and letting it dissipate right then vs. letting it continue to stand until it unraveled.

 

2) She may have unwoven the ward.

 

3) Jordan messed up.

Or she simply did something to erase the residue. Untying a weave would still leave a residue, evidence they had been there, and that's what she was trying to get rid of. Unweaving wouldn't leave any to get rid of. This is something different to either. That's option 4.

[Mandro]

As far as what Moiraine did there are two possibilities... well three.

 

1) So it's possible that she was simply untying the ward and letting it dissipate right then vs. letting it continue to stand until it unraveled.

 

2) She may have unwoven the ward.

 

3) Jordan messed up.

Or she simply did something to erase the residue. Untying a weave would still leave a residue, evidence they had been there, and that's what she was trying to get rid of. Unweaving wouldn't leave any to get rid of. This is something different to either. That's option 4.

 

that is how I read it, but RJ didn't start mathing out the situation, so who knows?

[rand4747]

Im under the impression that she removed the residue so no one would have any idea an aes sedai was there, and that undoing a weave would still leave a residue of the channeling just not of the weave itself.

[Luckers]

This has come under heavy discussion in the past, and the general consensus has been the same as Terez's--the action seemed more to remove the residue than to remove the weave so as to create no residue (which is what Aviendha did).

[chuckievi]

Similar to what Luckers just said, I read it as cleaning up the residues that are left. The weave itself is already gone, but there is a "mess" so to speak that says what was weaved, and she just smoothed over that mess.

[herid]

I've considered this before. It might simply be that Moiraine knows of a way to remove residue that the Aiel are unaware of, but it's incredibly doubtful that she unwove something with her eyes closed.

it also might be that in the case of the gateway Avi had no other option other than unweaving. if she untied the gateway and then removed the residue it would likely only affect the side of the gateway she was on and not the other side where their pursuers would be.

[Mandro]

They all make sense, I think the most sensible is the "sweeping up" idea. I think that it stuck in my head because of the common term "residue." Avi had to dismantle the weave from scratch because it was still being held, to eliminate the residue, and moiraine just sweeping up a mess that was already left.

 

Thanks for the input ya'all.