Inactivity

[Aust]

I don't think I'd have the energy to emulate Mynd!!!

 

One quick question on this topic for the mods - do you ever pm the inactives to try to get them more active? And if so how do they generally respond? Not that it's necessarily a mod's job to police activity but I've had a glimpse of how much work goes into modding and it is a shame when a game stalls from it - maybe just a little nudge on the inactives would help?

[Talya]

Aust, I have PM'd reminded about roles they have. But I think it is the MOD's role to chase them up. They are the ones that need to do what they can to keep the game running.

 

Aemon, we used to run those on OG, and all newbies had to play in at least three of those before they played big ones. The trouble is that when playing EVERYONE expected an experienced to be on the mafia team and they were usually the first ones to go. The mod would need to help a bit with the newbies (especially if no experience player on the mafia team).

 

As for a class, it could maybe more of a pointers session, let them kn ow what to expect. Yes it can get aggressive at times, but as long as it doesn't get personal, then explain to them why people do it, what they are hoping to get out of playing like that. the list for things could go on. Maybe get people like Mynd to explain. But it would explain to them different styles, and how they feel they would fit in. What their concerns are when playing. What makes them inactive (if they are). It maybe lack of confident (though those who have played for ages and still do it...that's a different matter).

 

Twists and stuff are fine, but sometimes (and I found this on my last game I modded) that can take away the basic hunting mafia, the deductions etc that should be the norm. Too many random things going on make it more random on which side that wins.

 

Lily, I also would be willing to play and Mod some simple games.

[Aust]

  On 1/29/2011 at 9:12 AM, Talya said:

Aust, I have PM'd reminded about roles they have. But I think it is the MOD's role to chase them up. They are the ones that need to do what they can to keep the game running.

 

No, I agree with you that it's definitely each player's responsibility to be accountable for their activity - but if a game does stall even the active players start to post less - I know I've been guilty of this, just for not wanting to be the only one posting. So I guess I was wondering if there was anything to do to save things when they get to that point.

[aemonkristen]

I propose this, anonymous veteran volunteers who have access to the boards to give advice and help them try to get a win. In the case of the townies that would mean putting them into 2-man mason teams so that they can receive advice from the veterans. We can call these "Training Mafia" instead of "Standard" though they will have only the basic roles. I would be more than willing to coach the new players so we can have a group of active and enthusiastic players joining our ranks.

[LilyElizabeth]

That's a good idea - a person who is not playing the game coaching on the QT board.

[WWWwombat]

Oooh! I've always wanted a mafia protege (stupid phone can't do accents T_T).

[aemonkristen]

As soon as I get confirmation from Verbal I'd love to start sign ups for the first training game.

[Dralid]

Heh. I had thought I had moved on from Dragonmount for greener pastures for pretty much exactly this reason (and a few other small things). I'm so glad a friend gave me a poke and said to check back :)

 

My 2¢:

BLACKLISTS ARE BAD. They emphasize the negative and promote ideas of exclusivity and elitism. I'd recommend the exact Opposite: A badge or award for the MVP in a game, and a stickied thread Hall of Fame presenting role models for new players.

 

  On 1/27/2011 at 9:45 PM, Verbal32 said:

Bring most of the mafia games back into the OG board and off of the Org boards.

Agreed. When Mafia was overflowing in the OG board, small, private games made sense - but now that overall activity has dropped it feels like more games are running off OG than on.

 

 

I know that any games I mod in the future will require all players to post "I promise to make a good faith effort to be active in this game, to post at least two significant ideas each game phase, and to provide a public position which I may be required to defend." in order to sign up to a game.

 

 

  On 1/28/2011 at 3:37 PM, Verbal32 said:

I'm going to re-do OG a bit. A shake-up, if you will.

A small note regarding game queues: The way I see it there are two important descriptors of a game: size and complexity. Size could be Small (up to nine players), Medium (ten to fifteen players), Large (sixteen to twenty-three players) or Huge (twenty-four or more players). A game could be Beginner (using a simple pre-made setup), Simple (basic roles, simple twists/events), or Crazy (New roles, game-changing twists). 'Themed' could be done away with, as I can't remember the last time I saw a game that didn't have a motif of some sort. Thus you could have a Beginner Huge game or a Crazy, Small game. </off-topic>

[Red2111]

big wall'o'txt. but there was just so much i wanted to address

 

btw, another thing i try to do as a mod; if i have team roles in my game (mafia, masons, lovers, ect) always try to have a veteran player & a newbie on the team. i think for newbies, one of the best things we can do, as mods, both keeping them interested in future games (aka getting them hooked) and helping them learn how to play is by giving them a team that they can ask questions to without fear of being lead around by the nose. this is why Aemons idea of Ghost players is something i 100% support!!

 

 

  On 1/28/2011 at 9:24 PM, Little Miss said:

What did people think of a requirement to have had a mafia class or lesson before they are allowed to play in the normal games?

 

I commented in it before but did get a yay or nay.

 

A mafia class that talks about the norms of games, the roles, the flow of the game, and such.. :/

 

me & lily tossed the idea of a Mafia Class that goes over those exact things not to long ago. the problem with it, is you don't knwo how many will sign up and really the best way to learn how to play mafia is by actually playing it. because mafia depends more on how the other players act, rather than on the specific roles and such. that and the game is always evolving, so a basic How-To class may become obsolete within the month.

 

it's a great idea, but a hard one to actually implement

 

 

  On 1/28/2011 at 9:51 PM, keyholder21 said:

As a new player, I really like this idea a lot. Of course I'm the freak who likes school and learning and such *laughs*.

 

I must say that I am dishearted by the lack of activity too. I mean, I'm new, but at least I try! It's hard when people aren't talking at all.

 

Sorry - didn't mean to but in! Back to your regularly scheduled discussion .

 

anyones imput on this thread is welcome so long as they play the game. like AJ said, since our main target is showing newbies that inactivity isn't the norm, then your 2 cents are really valuable because your in our target audience

 

 

 

  On 1/28/2011 at 10:10 PM, Talya said:

I don't think stopping games elsewhere is a good idea, but limiting them more may help. The thing I find in OG is that there are some many threads that it takes me a while to find them. (yeah I'm getting on a bit :P) But why not sticky them here, that would make them easier to find. Maybe have a few more easy ones too.

 

Just get Mynd in on a game and that keeps it active...lol

 

lmao yeah Mynd will keep the activity up for sure, lanth as well if he'd play on DM

 

 

right now, i'd have to disagree with only limiting games in other Orgs. the player base is thin and the activity level is slow; this means the chances of players spreading themselves out too much, games becomming stagnet, or games not getting enough people to play in them will be a real issue.

 

i love games in other orgs, it's a great tool for recruiting and to get activity up within your Org. but as far as Mafia is concerned, i think the best thing for Mafia is to move it back to the OG section until we get the main problems of activity level and player base settled. then slowly branch back out once theres an overflow of players.

 

 

 

  On 1/28/2011 at 10:55 PM, LilyElizabeth said:

I would definitely mod some beginner games anytime. I love basic mafia more than the big, fancy setups. I'd also play in them, since you want one or two experienced players in them.

 

i would also love to both mod & ghost play in the stnd/newbie games!! and yes i promise, no ultra crazy roles if i do mod i dunno if you guys want me to ghost games thoguh; i consider myself an agressive player and tend to try and take the lead more times than not. plus a have a bass-akwards way of looking at things that most people dont get lmao

 

 

  On 1/28/2011 at 11:17 PM, alannalynn said:

  On 1/28/2011 at 11:07 PM, WWWwombat said:

Until he gets lynched :P

 

I don't like the idea of requirements to join games. I know one thing that helped me when I was new was reading games that had just completed. Because of that and having played mafia once at a party, I was able to jump into one of Talya's Christmas themed games relatively easily. Talya was of course very helpful that game so the mod can help a lot too.

 

But you were somewhat sure of yourself, right? And you're active now. I think if they feel SO unsure about themselves that they NEED to take a newbie game it should at least be OFFERED. At the moment, we're requiring them to jump into big and/or themed games for the first time and that's unfair and could turn people off of mafia because they think it's too complicated/hard.

 

also, for some people, the ide of reading a game before playing just isn't appealing. it wasn't for me at all womby. but then again, hands on is the best way i learn IRL.

 

 

and i have to agree with AJ on the big games point. part of the reason for newbies being quiet is that these bigger games are too confusing for them as they've never understood the basics of the game and it is their first time.

 

take a DPR game. we all love his games, but put a newbie into one and msot will spend the entire game scratchign their head isntead of playing, no mater how much DPR trys to help them.

 

 

  On 1/28/2011 at 11:38 PM, keyholder21 said:

Fair enough, mandatory is probably not a good thing. It gets people riled up really quickly and might turn people away. Besides, what if they've played mafia on other sites, just not on DM?

 

Watching you more experienced players is DEFINITELY how us newbies learn.

 

key brings up a good point about mandatory games. if soemoen from JN comes over here to give our games a try, they shoudln't be subjected to having to play a newbie game just cause they're new to DM Mafia. this will turn off alot of experienced players from other site which could help the activity issue.

 

and yeah, watching experienced players is how newbies learn the best. it was how i learned and i think most of you guys as well.

 

 

  On 1/29/2011 at 4:43 PM, aemonkristen said:

I propose this, anonymous veteran volunteers who have access to the boards to give advice and help them try to get a win. In the case of the townies that would mean putting them into 2-man mason teams so that they can receive advice from the veterans. We can call these "Training Mafia" instead of "Standard" though they will have only the basic roles. I would be more than willing to coach the new players so we can have a group of active and enthusiastic players joining our ranks.

 

ghost players are a great idea!! but i think that the ghost players should be invited by the mod; that way if the newbies try take the ghost players advise experienced players in the game wont be bale to pick them off as scum or masons or whatever tema their on.

[Verbal32]

  On 1/28/2011 at 11:23 PM, Alanna said:

The standard games we run here on OG are kind of beginner's games, but I do question the limitation of the setups; sometimes I think that's why those games have such little activity, they get old really fast. Obviously a game should be checked by an OG mod to make sure it's still 'standard,' though.

 

The thing is, Standard games don't have twists or seldom used roles. Finder/Healer/Mafia/maybe a SK or Vig.....that's about it. Any more and it can add too much complexity to a game. But I think I can address some of this with my response to Dralid below.

 

 

  On 1/29/2011 at 7:16 PM, LilyElizabeth said:

That's a good idea - a person who is not playing the game coaching on the QT board.

 

I love this! Aemon, I like the training mafia, but not with obvious teams like that....you'll just have the vets NKed first by the mafia. I think the vets participating in a Mason or Mafia QT would be awesome.

 

 

  On 1/31/2011 at 6:43 AM, Dralid said:

A small note regarding game queues: The way I see it there are two important descriptors of a game: size and complexity. Size could be Small (up to nine players), Medium (ten to fifteen players), Large (sixteen to twenty-three players) or Huge (twenty-four or more players). A game could be Beginner (using a simple pre-made setup), Simple (basic roles, simple twists/events), or Crazy (New roles, game-changing twists). 'Themed' could be done away with, as I can't remember the last time I saw a game that didn't have a motif of some sort. Thus you could have a Beginner Huge game or a Crazy, Small game. </off-topic>

 

This is sort of the direction I'm going in. I'm going to take some notes/ideas and post back here for feedback. Stay tuned.

[aemonkristen]

Does this mean I can seb up a Training Mafia? :)

 

I like the idea of invited veterans so no one knows who is coaching whom. I'm trying to get around the idea of the mason groups. We need he town players to have a resource jut as much as the mafia players and I can't think of a ay to do it except through two-man mason groups. Suggestions? I would Obviously have a different veteran for each group as I wouldn't want it to be X veteran vs. Y veteran.

[WWWwombat]

I like the idea of having the veterans advise rather than play. You could give each player a veteran coach.

[aemonkristen]

That sounds great, but do you think I would be able to get so many veterans? That would be something like 8-9 veterans for the game.

[Little Miss]

I would be willing to bet you could get

 

Lily, Song, AJ, Red, Aust, and maybe Verb, and Wombat as well.

[aemonkristen]

I'm just waiting on verbal's go ahead to start the sign ups, then.

[LilyElizabeth]

I'm excited to see what Verb comes up with. This board definitely needs a new look, as it were.

[Krakalakachkn]

hmmm interesting. Never thought of doing a big brother/little sister program for mafia, it could be interesting.

[hotpocket2006]

I msy or may not be taking a break from mafia, I'll let ya know, but I could be an advisor either way.

[Talya]

Count me in too

[Red2111]

instead of having Mason groups you could have something like this

 

12 player game; 5 ghost vetrans

 

3 team scum - 1 vetran

 

2 townies - 1 vet

 

2 townies - 1 vet

 

2 townies - 1 vet

 

3 townies - 1 vet

 

 

but instead of having mason teams, just give them the name of a vetran in their Role PM that they can PM if they have questions.

 

1 thing i would like to suggest is that Vets are not permitted to actually suggest who the players use their NA's on. they can give them tips, but not direct the NA.

[Talya]

that sounds like a good idea, otherwise they would be playing the game. I suppose if someone asks "should I kill ...." the vet could turn it around and ask questions to make them think, like " what is the benefit od killing them" "what are possible problems" so that you don't say yes or no, but get them thinking about consequences and how to look at things!

[Verbal32]

I'm very much inclined to go in the direction Talya is talking about here. This would be a pretty time-intensive game, as you'll have multiple QTs, and more people than usual involved in some way. I'll have to have some sort of mentor thread ala the White Tower and stuff. Could work.

 

Before I actually make any changes, I need to PM Wes and talk to him. He's technically the other OG mod, and I want to get his input before doing anything game-changing.

[Red2111]

  On 2/1/2011 at 6:00 PM, Talya said:

that sounds like a good idea, otherwise they would be playing the game. I suppose if someone asks "should I kill ...." the vet could turn it around and ask questions to make them think, like " what is the benefit od killing them" "what are possible problems" so that you don't say yes or no, but get them thinking about consequences and how to look at things!

 

yep exactly. that way when they're on their own, they know how to think like a chess player instead of trying to remeber why, and so they don't feel like us mentors are trying to play through them :)

[aemonkristen]

Good points. I am actually thinking of giving each town player their own QT where the veterans can interact with the new players. Waiting for the new players to ask questions may be the wrong way to go, though. As new players there are things that they are not going to notice and will need pointed out to them. Things such as scum tells, why it is sometimes not good to be the hammer vote, etc. And the vocabulary we use often confuses new players and when they ask they seem to be playing the newbie card or they keep their questions to themselves and continue in ignorance of what an FoS is and why it is bad. I'd like to have veterans that will not just answer questions, but point out things to look at in the game and (as already mentioned and probably the absolute most important part of mentoring) teach them how to think for themselves in the context of what is happening in the game. As Verbal said, it will be time intensive and if any veteran that signs up to mentor feels they can't keep up, just let me know so we can get a replacement set up. No problem.

 

Song, I know you've had a bit of trouble lately in the games, but please don't give up. I love your play style and always look forward to games you are in.

[Red2111]

*snuggles Song* i may find you scummy woman but dont leave!!!

 

Aemon i'm in for sure. i think i can do that i still think it might be easier to split the townies up betwene the vets. like Verb said, thats alotof QT boards.