Is it possible

[Jblaylock]

His hook nose would fit in... didn't it describe him with a hook nose? Plus, the Saldeans had problems with Taim more than any other people, and it's pretty clear (to me anyway) that Taim is somehow linked with/related to (in business, blood, or both) Demandred.

 

The idea came to me when Ituralde was rescued by that one Saldean dude in "An Open Gate" Chapter, and the description of this guys hooked nose seemed to catch my eye. It probably aint Demandred, but it got me thinking about the possibility anyway.

 

A point to consider. Bashere is mentioned being usure whether or not he could go back to his queen, afraid she might consider him a traitor and kill him. That's pretty harsh for a blood relative. Made me think immidiatly of Morgase's banishment of her closest allies, including Bryne, which she did under compulsion of none other than Rahvin. Perhaps Demandred has Tenobia (or whoever Saldea's queen is) under compulsion, and is thus holding the bulk of Saldea's armies. It would also account for why Saldea was ordered not to help Ituralde (though that one guy did anyway in the chapter I mentioned, and did it knowing he was breaking the rules).

[ranjitb]

We can rule out Bashere/Saldea, Itulrade/Arad Doman, and High Lords/Tear as being Demandred. Also the remaining Borderland Forces.

 

Remember, NuRand can "see" darkfriends and they can't look at him anymore. Since he has spent time in those three countries, and seen the 4 x Borderland rulers post-epiphany its a pretty safe bet that none of them are DFs/DF-influenced.

[Jblaylock]

We can rule out Bashere/Saldea, Itulrade/Arad Doman, and High Lords/Tear as being Demandred. Also the remaining Borderland Forces.

 

Remember, NuRand can "see" darkfriends and they can't look at him anymore. Since he has spent time in those three countries, and seen the 4 x Borderland rulers post-epiphany its a pretty safe bet that none of them are DFs/DF-influenced.

 

 

I didn't say any of those individuals was him. I asked if it was possible that he could be ruling, perhaps with the Queen under heavy compulsion. That would explain why Bashere felt his blood relative the Queen would kill him if he tried to come back. Same way Morgase ditched her possy when Rahvin compulsed her.

[GYLD]

I'm pretty sure Bashere believes Tenobia will want his head based on his years of knowing the woman and her personality rather than any of her more recent actions.

[gary0044187]

I'm pretty sure Bashere believes Tenobia will want his head based on his years of knowing the woman and her personality rather than any of her more recent actions.

for that matter, remember the saldaean that said he would ask to be executed for what he did saving iturulde. you could say that was more because he mutinied but deserting is considered the same level of offense in most countries, which is basically what Bashere did.

[jemron]

Also, that whole thing about Demandred that the Borderlanders "quized" Rand on when he met with them seemed VERY fishy to me. Like it was Demandred wanting to double-check that Rand was indeed Lews Therin, and so he set that little "test" up so that he could "officially" move his hatred over to Rand al' Thor. I think that whole scene was supposed to come across as a "Holy crap! Demandred IS with the Borderlanders... oh, wait... Nevermind." But he still very well could be with them IMO. His rule is more secure than ever if he is with the Borderlanders, because now he can fake being on Rand's side during the Last Battle and majorly double-cross.

[RembrandtQ.Einstein]

Bashere didn't desert though did he? He declared for the Dragon Reborn and went over to his side.

[moratcorlm]

Bashere didn't desert though did he? He declared for the Dragon Reborn and went over to his side.

How is that not deserting?

[RembrandtQ.Einstein]

Bashere didn't desert though did he? He declared for the Dragon Reborn and went over to his side.

How is that not deserting?

 

 

I thought it constituted to high treason what Bashere did. Desertion seems to imply leaving your military unit due to a desire to avoid fighting.

[Nooska]

Bashere didn't desert though did he? He declared for the Dragon Reborn and went over to his side.

How is that not deserting?

And he shall break all bonds?

Essentially, he entered his resignation and got a new job - though I don't remember him "declaring for TDR and going over to his side". H was however, on a mission to find Taim and prevent him from returning to Saldea to cause trouble, something he can probably fulfill better while hanging around Rand - if he really wanted to stretch the reasoning some.

[jemron]

Why DID Bashere go to Rand so easily? Demandred controlled brain?

[Nooska]

Why DID Bashere go to Rand so easily? Demandred controlled brain?

Ta'veren need - Rand needed him.

[moratcorlm]

I thought it constituted to high treason what Bashere did. Desertion seems to imply leaving your military unit due to a desire to avoid fighting.

Fair enough; I'm not a military lawyer and don't know enough to argue that distinction, or really know which side of it I'm on. The key point is that Bashere changed sides while in the field and took his army with him, which hardly requires Compulsion to be understood as a potentially capital offense.

[Moments]

Also, that whole thing about Demandred that the Borderlanders "quized" Rand on when he met with them seemed VERY fishy to me. Like it was Demandred wanting to double-check that Rand was indeed Lews Therin, and so he set that little "test" up so that he could "officially" move his hatred over to Rand al' Thor. I think that whole scene was supposed to come across as a "Holy crap! Demandred IS with the Borderlanders... oh, wait... Nevermind." But he still very well could be with them IMO. His rule is more secure than ever if he is with the Borderlanders, because now he can fake being on Rand's side during the Last Battle and majorly double-cross.

 

The decision to 'officially' move his hatred over to Rand doesn't make sense this late in the series. He's had no problem hating Rand as if he were LTT before in the series, so I see no reason why he would suddenly want to validate his feelings toward him.

 

I'm still trying to understand if Demandred's statement that his 'rule is secure' is him simply confirming that he has x followers under heel, or that he's held onto authority after usurping x ruler's place.

[Feral]

Perhaps Demandred has Tenobia (or whoever Saldea's queen is) under compulsion, and is thus holding the bulk of Saldea's armies. It would also account for why Saldea was ordered not to help Ituralde (though that one guy did anyway in the chapter I mentioned, and did it knowing he was breaking the rules).

 

From what we get told, that's just how Tenobia (and Saldaen women in general) are eg. tempermental.

[gary0044187]

Bashere didn't desert though did he? He declared for the Dragon Reborn and went over to his side.

How is that not deserting?

 

 

I thought it constituted to high treason what Bashere did. Desertion seems to imply leaving your military unit due to a desire to avoid fighting.

the fine point with desertion is not the intent not to fight but the intent not to rejoin the army from which you leave. Desertion is probably the wrong charge for that, but he and his force could be tried for it or merely accused of it and hanged if that is Tenobia's will, since it is close enough and people caught during an awol would find it hard to convince their captor that they would come back willingly if they had not been caught. however, having declared for the dragon is a strong point against him on this, he has basically committed treason there and while desertion can sometimes be given a lessor punishment, treason rarely is.

[Nooska]

<snip Bashere>

however, having declared for the dragon

When does Bashere declare for the dragon?

Granted he follows the dragon, but thats, both technically and argumentatively different from declaring for him.

Declaring involves the act of betraying or deserting his post - following does not. Bashere could easily argue that he took a command decision to do what he thought Tenobia would want him to do - remember he doesn't have any sat phone or radio or other way of contacting Tenobia and holding council - he is the commander in chief of the Saldean army in all relevant ways, and is heir apparent to the throne.

[gary0044187]

Diera mentions it (that what he has done is essentially declaring for rand) to rand in the scene where the saldaean cav is riding around to show their prowess to him in andor (at least I am pretty sure). I do not have the other books at hand so I cannot back this up. Hopefully someone else can.

[Nooska]

Diera mentions it (that what he has done is essentially declaring for rand) to rand in the scene where the saldaean cav is riding around to show their prowess to him in andor (at least I am pretty sure). I do not have the other books at hand so I cannot back this up. Hopefully someone else can.

This would be in LoC, right?

*goes to look it up*

edit; first quote;

The Saldaean's tilted eyes were as calm as if he lolled in his own home. "My wife would not like that. Nor you, for that matter. Deira would probably take command and set out hunting Taim again. She doesn't approve of my agreement to follow you."

This is Bashere to Rand after Rnad "threatens" to kill him after throwing a knife at him. This could be used to support either side. The agreement to follow Rand could both be a swearing for him and could be the agreement that I suggested previously. What IS clear, however, is that Bashere gave over on his quest to hunt down Taim, which is, at least, dereliction of duty, depending on the rank system in Saldea (as I postulated that Davram Bashere is, in all effects and purposes, CinC for the Saldean army.

 

Edit 2:

The chapter with the sladean show is LOC, 26 (thank to idealseek and the two white stones), however Deira does not say anything to Rand here, she only asks if Bashere amuses Rand. The only othe rplace I can think something like this might be is in the chapter where Faile and Perrin meet with the Basheres.

[gary0044187]

maybe, I just don't have the series with me. I gave my last two copies away to friends I was trying to get into the series.