Why the raven?

[white_wolf]

So I've been wondering why is the raven, a symbol of the dark one used by the Seanchan instead of the Hawk which was the symbol of Artur Hawking who they descend from?

[ROB_88]

yes, that always confused me too.

to the point where when the Seanchan were first introduce i thought it was a whole nation filled with open Darkfriends

[The Fisher King]

, said Poe.

 

 

- Fish

[dovien]

I think most likely because of their reverence of Artur Hawkwing. Remember when Luthair left Artur was still alive and it would have been disrespectful of him to use his father's symbol in conquering a new land. My bet is that the raven was Luthair's personal sigil.

Although, I just did a quick search in the books and it turns out Luthair did use a banner featuring a 'golden, spread-winged hawk clutching lightning bolts' so I could be wrong.

[Luckers]

Well if anyone was going to use a raven it would be a place where shadowspawn had been essentially ruled out, a place where the 'Armies of Night' ruled before falling and being subsumed into the emerging Seanchan Empire.

[moratcorlm]

Although, I just did a quick search in the books and it turns out Luthair did use a banner featuring a 'golden, spread-winged hawk clutching lightning bolts' so I could be wrong.

And not just lightning bolts, but three lightning bolts, like the sigil of Be'lal, Sammael, and Taim. An influence from Ishamael in his father's court, perhaps; a sly joke? As far as the ravens go, if a large number of the Aes Sedai ruling Seanchan were Darkfriends, it would make sense for their symbology to be absorbed along with their lands. Or it could be simple drift from the metonymy of the Tower of Ravens with the Crystal Throne.

[Finnssss22]

Although, I just did a quick search in the books and it turns out Luthair did use a banner featuring a 'golden, spread-winged hawk clutching lightning bolts' so I could be wrong.

And not just lightning bolts, but three lightning bolts, like the sigil of Be'lal, Sammael, and Taim. An influence from Ishamael in his father's court, perhaps; a sly joke? As far as the ravens go, if a large number of the Aes Sedai ruling Seanchan were Darkfriends, it would make sense for their symbology to be absorbed along with their lands. Or it could be simple drift from the metonymy of the Tower of Ravens with the Crystal Throne.

 

 

Hard to say but remember the Tower of Ravens is actually the HQ of the seekers where the convicted face their punishment and the mark of the Raven means you are the direct property of the Empress.

I think you have the right of it though, Ishy has influenced/corupted the Seanchan prophecies so it would be hard to discount him effecting other aspects of their society.

[yoniy0]

Well if anyone was going to use a raven it would be a place where shadowspawn had been essentially ruled out, a place where the 'Armies of Night' ruled before falling and being subsumed into the emerging Seanchan Empire.

You're not really giving them much there, are you?

Q: What is the origin of the raven as a symbol of the Seanchan Empire? Why isn't it a hawk?

RJ: The conquerors of Seanchan suffered the fate of many smaller groups that conquer larger. They were, in many ways, absorbed by the conquered, with only an overlayer remaining of what and who they were before.

 

In pre-conquest Seanchan, the raven was a symbol of rulers because (1) it was supposedly wise, and (2) (perhaps more importantly) it supposedly saw and knew everything that happened. Nothing escapes the eyes of the raven, and frankly, any hawk or eagle that tries taking on ravens, gets chased off. So, the golden hawk remains the symbol of the Imperial family, descendants of Artur Hawkwing, but the raven is the symbol of rule and of Empire.

[mb]

So I've been wondering why is the raven, a symbol of the dark one used by the Seanchan instead of the Hawk which was the symbol of Artur Hawking who they descend from?

My guess would be that Ishamael influenced that decision.

Ishamael seems to influenced the decision for them to go. Also the Essanik Cycle.

[Durinax]

I always put it on ishy, him just saying "yeah I am awesome, see these fools their going to fly the Lords symbol and look like tools

 

hey I just thought of a technique the shadow could use. they could fly their DF armies under the raven symbol, close range to seanchan armies, and strike creating anarchy among the armies since they would think that another imperial army attacked them

[Exy]

Yeah, I always assumed it was due to Ishamael's influence, personally. The raven is so heavily associated with the Dark One that it really is striking that they'd use it as a symbol of their empire. There's other bits of night or darkness-related symbolism associated with Seanchan -- the "Towers of Midnight", the "Nine Moons". Oh, and the Deathwatch Guards in their armor painted in red and a green so dark it looks black. We know whose colors are red and black.

[dovien]

Someone before mentioned they were prepared for Seanchan to be a nation of darkfriends. It seems plausible to me that Ishamael deliberately created this image for the purpose of fostering hostility between Seanchan and the Westlands. If one side thinks the other is composed of darkfriends then they're hardly likely to unite against the Dark One when the time comes.