Will Rand pick Moraine to use Callandor?

[RyanDuranGeiger]

Rand stated in ToM that he would have Nynaeve and either Elayne or Avi wield Callandor with him at TG. This seemed okay, if not ideal to me. Alivia would be better than Avi or Elayne because she is stronger than they are. However, now that Moraine is back, will he take her with him to TG? If so, I fear disaster. Moraine is nowhere near as strong as Nyn or Elayne, and her being part of the circle could drastically reduce the total power available to seal the bore.

 

Will Rand pick Moraine for the circle? Will this affect the strength of the circle? Did Ishy let her live in Foxworld because he knew Rand would have her rescued and take her to TG?

 

No.

 

I have said since I finished the book, it will be Nyn and Lanfear.

 

Moiraine will be sent to help / save Lan.

 

 

I've been hoping Lanfear was going to help since her rebirth.. So, I'm gonna have to go with Nynaeve/Lanfear as well..

Though, Lanfear+Moiraine would be quite badass.

 

 

On a side note, can't wait to see the scene where Moiraine finds out he's going to go rescue Lanfear.

[blazetheearth]

The best female channelers the light has are Nynaeve and Alivia. It seems likely to me that they will be part of Rand's bodyguard.

 

Not true. I don't understand why people automatically associate "More Power" with better (maybe they watched too much Tim Allen when they were younger). It is much better to have little Power and use it extremely skillfully than have kick-a** power and not be able to hit the broad side of a barn with it.

Nyn is 27, and has been consciously channeling less than 3 years. Yes, she has discovered new weaves and Healed that Which Cannot Be Healed, but where do any of those talents apply to "Sealing the Bore"? Same with Alivia, but in reverse, she's over 400 years old, but the ONLY weaves she knows (except what she's been able to learn by watch Cads and Co) are destructive! How is 4 centuries of knowing how to blow things up going to help you with "Sealing"?

 

Strength in the Power is not a deciding factor at all. Personally I think that one of Moaine's wishes from the Foxes was for Mierin's memories, which would give Morainre the skill needed to "Seal the Bore" and since she would be leading the circle w/ Callandor (remember to get around he flaw a woman must lead the circle) she could be as weak a Morgase (well maybe Soirlea) and still have as much OP as she wanted or needed through Callandor in Rand's hand.

 

Right now, as of the end of ToM, no Light-side character that we know of has the knowledge to Seal the Bore. This includes Rand, Avi, Nyn, Alivia, Cads, Elayne, Eggy, etc.... the only Light-sdie person that we do not know the extent of their skill and knowledge is Moraine. We have no idea what she might have gotten for her other 2 wishes, and any speculation is just that...speculation and guesses, but it remains that she is the only one that might have the knowledge that Rand is looking for.

 

Nyn and Alivia are the 'strongest' channelers, but that does not make them "the best' by a long shot.

 

We know that Nyn will not be part of his bodyguard, she will be part of the circle using Callandor. Rand has said that, so where does the idea of her being a bodyguard come from?

[ranjitb]

In my opinion, Moirane's purpose will be to painlessly convince Rand to accept Egwene/WT "guidance".

[Lupy]

The best female channelers the light has are Nynaeve and Alivia. It seems likely to me that they will be part of Rand's bodyguard.

 

Not true. I don't understand why people automatically associate "More Power" with better (maybe they watched too much Tim Allen when they were younger). It is much better to have little Power and use it extremely skillfully than have kick-a** power and not be able to hit the broad side of a barn with it.

Nyn is 27, and has been consciously channeling less than 3 years. Yes, she has discovered new weaves and Healed that Which Cannot Be Healed, but where do any of those talents apply to "Sealing the Bore"? Same with Alivia, but in reverse, she's over 400 years old, but the ONLY weaves she knows (except what she's been able to learn by watch Cads and Co) are destructive! How is 4 centuries of knowing how to blow things up going to help you with "Sealing"?

 

What you just said is that Nynaeve and Alivia are not the best suited to being part of the group of channelers who defend him while he seals the bore. Much as Alivia fought off Lanfear at the Cleansing, there will be a need for her and others to defend Rand from the Forsaken and friends at TG. Furthermore, you think that Aes Sedai, useless at fighting as TGS showed them to be, could do better than Nyn?

 

Strength in the Power is not a deciding factor at all. Personally I think that one of Moaine's wishes from the Foxes was for Mierin's memories, which would give Morainre the skill needed to "Seal the Bore" and since she would be leading the circle w/ Callandor (remember to get around he flaw a woman must lead the circle) she could be as weak a Morgase (well maybe Soirlea) and still have as much OP as she wanted or needed through Callandor in Rand's hand.

 

IF Moraine has Mierin's knowledge then she would be a good choice. Otherwise, her only qualification is that Rand has trust issues.

 

Right now, as of the end of ToM, no Light-side character that we know of has the knowledge to Seal the Bore. This includes Rand, Avi, Nyn, Alivia, Cads, Elayne, Eggy, etc.... the only Light-sdie person that we do not know the extent of their skill and knowledge is Moraine. We have no idea what she might have gotten for her other 2 wishes, and any speculation is just that...speculation and guesses, but it remains that she is the only one that might have the knowledge that Rand is looking for.

 

Nyn and Alivia are the 'strongest' channelers, but that does not make them "the best' by a long shot.

 

When we find out what Moraine knows things may change. However, as for what you said about Nynaeve and Alivia... First, according to Linda, Nynaeve and Alivia are the 2 light side female channelers as strong as the Forsaken. [Except for Sharina, who Rand has never met.] Furthermore, Alivia has defeated Cyndane before and no one else has. She knows all the Seanchan combat weaves. Nynaeve defeated Moghedien before reaching her full strength, is stronger than Moghedien, and is almost as strong as Graendal. How could anyone be better suited to fighting the Forsaken than these two?

 

We know that Nyn will not be part of his bodyguard, she will be part of the circle using Callandor. Rand has said that, so where does the idea of her being a bodyguard come from?

 

Rand could change his mind, he can be reasoned with now.

[babuada]

In my opinion, Moirane's purpose will be to painlessly convince Rand to accept Egwene/WT "guidance".

Who in WT can guide him BTW? I believe you do not mean the Stones of White Tower :)

[babuada]

IF Moraine has Mierin's knowledge then she would be a good choice. Otherwise, her only qualification is that Rand has trust issues

Please give a quote for his trust issues. Not old Rand but Rand5.0. Only reason he chose Nyn because of her character strength. Once he knows about Elayne and her great works she would be in dump. That leaves only Avi and Mo (she changed and more so in captivity. We'll see it when she thrashes WT pretend AS in FoM)

[RedVanilla]

I don't think Rand needs the White Tower guiding him at all. They have just assumes all along they would be, when instead they need to learn to serve/help him. Moiraine has his trust, and probably asked the Finns how to correctly win the last battle, so she will probably be the other woman besides Nynaeve using Callandor with him.

[Lupy]

IF Moraine has Mierin's knowledge then she would be a good choice. Otherwise, her only qualification is that Rand has trust issues

Please give a quote for his trust issues. Not old Rand but Rand5.0. Only reason he chose Nyn because of her character strength. Once he knows about Elayne and her great works she would be in dump. That leaves only Avi and Mo (she changed and more so in captivity. We'll see it when she thrashes WT pretend AS in FoM)

 

Jesus Rand felt the need to scour his minions for DFs. I don't have my books right now, but the scene where we learned he could identify DFs. He also has showed that he doesn't trust Aes Sedai even though he had no real reason to think that Egwene would try to pull anything when he spoke with her. He is still suspicious, even if he is no longer Darth Rand. He chose Nyn because the list of channeling women he trusts is: Nyn, Elayne, Avi, Moraine, and maybe Alivia and Cadsuane.

[babuada]

The best female channelers the light has are Nynaeve and Alivia. It seems likely to me that they will be part of Rand's bodyguard.

 

Not true. I don't understand why people automatically associate "More Power" with better (maybe they watched too much Tim Allen when they were younger).

This comes to WT apologists from generic power structure of WT. It is the common selfish trait of these pretend AS that lead to brawn being equated to brain. That being said, Nyn already showed her brain, so she may find something useful yet at the last moment. Other AS including Mo are yet to show any creativity yet. But this fight is not about brain either. It is about character strength which these WT pretend AS lack.

[babuada]

I don't think Rand needs the White Tower guiding him at all. They have just assumes all along they would be, when instead they need to learn to serve/help him. Moiraine has his trust, and probably asked the Finns how to correctly win the last battle, so she will probably be the other woman besides Nynaeve using Callandor with him.

I doubt they would answer anything so close to shadow.

[Lupy]

The best female channelers the light has are Nynaeve and Alivia. It seems likely to me that they will be part of Rand's bodyguard.

 

Not true. I don't understand why people automatically associate "More Power" with better (maybe they watched too much Tim Allen when they were younger).

This comes to WT apologists from generic power structure of WT. It is the common selfish trait of these pretend AS that lead to brawn being equated to brain. That being said, Nyn already showed her brain, so she may find something useful yet at the last moment. Other AS including Mo are yet to show any creativity yet. But this fight is not about brain either. It is about character strength which these WT pretend AS lack.

 

Two things:

I am not a White Tower apologist.

Aes Sedai are annoying, inefficient failures, but they are still a valuable tool for Rand. They judge people on their strength instead of their merit, which is wrong socially, but makes sense for fighting. As for character strength, Moraine, Nyn, Verin, and Egwene have all shown that some AS have character strength.

[babuada]

IF Moraine has Mierin's knowledge then she would be a good choice. Otherwise, her only qualification is that Rand has trust issues

Please give a quote for his trust issues. Not old Rand but Rand5.0. Only reason he chose Nyn because of her character strength. Once he knows about Elayne and her great works she would be in dump. That leaves only Avi and Mo (she changed and more so in captivity. We'll see it when she thrashes WT pretend AS in FoM)

 

Jesus Rand felt the need to scour his minions for DFs. I don't have my books right now, but the scene where we learned he could identify DFs.

He felt the need because there were DFs. And he went through them looking at each ones eye to search her/his soul because that is the only way to identify correctly the touch of shadow.

 

He also has showed that he doesn't trust Aes Sedai even though he had no real reason to think that Egwene would try to pull anything when he spoke with her.

He let Egg speak because he trusts her (pettiness) completely. If He did not trust these WT goofs then how come he came alone? He did not allow anyone else other than Egg to speak or inturrupt him anyway because he trusts in their ability in bickering and petty politics. They lost their character long ago and he knows that.

 

He is still suspicious, even if he is no longer Darth Rand. He chose Nyn because the list of channeling women he trusts is: Nyn, Elayne, Avi, Moraine, and maybe Alivia and Cadsuane.

No he is not. His each and every action shows that. You can say he is sure about the bad guys (gals) and did not give them a chance. He also trusts all WO. Where did you find that he do not trust them? Each person he trusts (channeler or Non channeler) is based upon character strength. Except Avi and Elayne, them he trusts based upon the bond feeling. He does not see them much yet.

[Lupy]

snip

 

Okay, I went and reread some of the chapter where he goes to Bandar Eban. I concede that he has overcome his trust issues. I would still argue that his primary reasoning for taking Moraine over anyone else (assuming she does not have some sort of 'Finn answer to sealing the bore) is that he trusts her above virtually everyone else.

[blazetheearth]

What you just said is that Nynaeve and Alivia are not the best suited to being part of the group of channelers who defend him while he seals the bore. Much as Alivia fought off Lanfear at the Cleansing, there will be a need for her and others to defend Rand from the Forsaken and friends at TG. Furthermore, you think that Aes Sedai, useless at fighting as TGS showed them to be, could do better than Nyn?

 

No, what I just said was that neither Nyn or Alivia are the best suited to help him wield Callandor. Wielding Callandor with him will not be a matter of being his bodyguard or defending him. Others will do that, probably Alivia among them, but we were talking about "Will Rand pick Moraine to use Callandor?" (subject title, see I read), not about who might go along to defend him while he and his chosen two will actually use Callandor.

 

Strength in the Power is not a deciding factor at all. Personally I think that one of Moraine's wishes from the Foxes was for Mierin's memories, which would give Morainre the skill needed to "Seal the Bore" and since she would be leading the circle w/ Callandor (remember to get around he flaw a woman must lead the circle) she could be as weak a Morgase (well maybe Soirlea) and still have as much OP as she wanted or needed through Callandor in Rand's hand.

 

IF Moraine has Mierin's knowledge then she would be a good choice. Otherwise, her only qualification is that Rand has trust issues.

 

Right now, as of the end of ToM, no Light-side character that we know of has the knowledge to Seal the Bore. This includes Rand, Avi, Nyn, Alivia, Cads, Elayne, Eggy, etc.... the only Light-sdie person that we do no know the extent of their skill and knowledge is Moraine. We have no idea what she might have gotten for her other 2 wishes, and any speculation is just that...speculation and guesses, but it remains that she is the only one that might have the knowledge that Rand is looking for.

Nyn and Alivia are the 'strongest' channelers, but that does not make them "the best' by a long shot.

 

When we find out what Moraine knows things may change. However, as for what you said about Nynaeve and Alivia... First, according to Linda, Nynaeve and Alivia are the 2 light side female channelers as strong as the Forsaken. [Except for Sharina, who Rand has never met.] Furthermore, Alivia has defeated Cyndane before and no one else has. She knows all the Seanchan combat weaves. Nynaeve defeated Moghedien before reaching her full strength, is stronger than Moghedien, and is almost as strong as Graendal. How could anyone be better suited to fighting the Forsaken than these two?

 

Again this statement goes back to "strength in the OP" no"skill at using the OP". Linda says that they are "as strong as the Forsaken." That does not mean better. This is why Demandred and Aran'gar both were able to face a circle of 3 (2 women and 1 man) during the Cleansing, and survive. For that matter look at Landane during the Cleansing, she faced Alivia, and even though Alivia had Nyn's parilys-net, and the angreal, Landane was still able to injure Alivia badly, and escaped w/o a scratch as far as we are told. Yes, Alivia eventually drove her off, but not before having her left arm burned. And this is a woman with 400 years of using the Power as a weapon that was fighting Landane but still barely managed a stalemate, even with Cyndane's reduced power and Alivia having all of the various ter'angreal and Nyn's angreal. It baffles me how anyone can think that "strength" equals "better" when we have these examples of how cunning and skill have done better than raw power so often.

 

The basis for these assumptions seems to be that the conflict that will involve Callandor and Rand and Co will simply be a matter of fighting with the OP, however we have seen from Rand's PoV that the Last Battle will not be strength against strength. Rand thinks that this will not be a fight with the OP versus the DO. If sheer strength were going to be enough, then he would have been stupid for destroying her male Access Key to the CK. This Last Battle will not be a fight to see who has the strongest punch/OP. And any assumptions made on that premise are automatically faulty. And the primary argument that I see here in favor of a former-damane and a 27 year old is that they are the"strongest" in the OP, not the best, not the one who know the most, not the ones who have spent decades or even minutes reasearching what needs to be done to Seal up the DO. The only argument in their favor seems to be strength in the OP.

[blazetheearth]

IF Moraine has Mierin's knowledge then she would be a good choice. Otherwise, her only qualification is that Rand has trust issues

Please give a quote for his trust issues. Not old Rand but Rand5.0. Only reason he chose Nyn because of her character strength. Once he knows about Elayne and her great works she would be in dump. That leaves only Avi and Mo (she changed and more so in captivity. We'll see it when she thrashes WT pretend AS in FoM)

 

Jesus Rand felt the need to scour his minions for DFs. I don't have my books right now, but the scene where we learned he could identify DFs.

He felt the need because there were DFs. And he went through them looking at each ones eye to search her/his soul because that is the only way to identify correctly the touch of shadow.

 

He also has showed that he doesn't trust Aes Sedai even though he had no real reason to think that Egwene would try to pull anything when he spoke with her.

He let Egg speak because he trusts her (pettiness) completely. If He did not trust these WT goofs then how come he came alone? He did not allow anyone else other than Egg to speak or inturrupt him anyway because he trusts in their ability in bickering and petty politics. They lost their character long ago and he knows that.

 

He is still suspicious, even if he is no longer Darth Rand. He chose Nyn because the list of channeling women he trusts is: Nyn, Elayne, Avi, Moraine, and maybe Alivia and Cadsuane.

No he is not. His each and every action shows that. You can say he is sure about the bad guys (gals) and did not give them a chance. He also trusts all WO. Where did you find that he do not trust them? Each person he trusts (channeler or Non channeler) is based upon character strength. Except Avi and Elayne, them he trusts based upon the bond feeling. He does not see them much yet.

 

I mostly agree, and the things I don't agree with are not important to the point being made, so I give it a solid "Sounds Good to Me!"

[capuga]

In my opinion, Moirane's purpose will be to painlessly convince Rand to accept Egwene/WT "guidance".

 

Oh god, I hope not. I would much prefer that she leads Egwene to she some of the mistakes she has made and helps them work out a reasonable compromise that doesn't involve WT "guidance".

[babuada]

Two things:

I am not a White Tower apologist.

Sorry! I do not mean to target you personally. You say you are NOT a White Tower apologist. I trust your words and believe that we can have a reasonable conversation then.

 

Aes Sedai are annoying, inefficient failures,

Completely agree if you mean these WT pretend AS. True Aes Sedai (servant of all) did a very good job at serving the society.

 

but they are still a valuable tool for Rand.

Rand does not need tool. He needs good human being. That is one of his realisation that makes him different and wiser than these pretend AS

 

They judge people on their strength instead of their merit, which is wrong socially, but makes sense for fighting.

Nope, not with OP. That is why there is ring. Young and Strong are supposed to just provide the source and weak and wise supposed to lead. See these pretend AS, they are so selfish they hide the knowledge of circle.

 

As for character strength, Moraine, Nyn, Verin, and Egwene have all shown that some AS have character strength.

Moraine to some extent at the end, Nyn always, that is why Rand5.0 chose her for SG. Egwene and Verin does not have character strength.

Egwin is very dishonest, has no sense of honor, selfish in a sense typical WT character. Mental strength is not same as character strength.

Verin went to the shadow, who knows what despicable crime she commited for the greed of knowledge. She tried for redemption and I hope she got that. Afterall she is the prime agent about fulfilling the prophecy about unstained tower (by helping to make it unstained finally).

[trench]

I think Rand will definetly pick Moiraine for the Callandor circle along with Nyn. My reason comes form tEotW. Min was able to see the sparks fighting the dark when just those two were together. I feel that indicates they both have a role to play together at the LB. Rand definetly trust both of them enough and both are accomplished with weaving Saidar.

[babuada]

In my opinion, Moirane's purpose will be to painlessly convince Rand to accept Egwene/WT "guidance".

 

Oh god, I hope not. I would much prefer that she leads Egwene to she some of the mistakes she has made and helps them work out a reasonable compromise that doesn't involve WT "guidance".

Compromise!!!!!!!!! With Rand5.0????????? Impossible. He does not compromise, that thing was for old Rand buddy :)

[babuada]

snip

 

Okay, I went and reread some of the chapter where he goes to Bandar Eban. I concede that he has overcome his trust issues. I would still argue that his primary reasoning for taking Moraine over anyone else (assuming she does not have some sort of 'Finn answer to sealing the bore) is that he trusts her above virtually everyone else.

Not trust but knoeledge. He knows her character to be better than anyone else or will know. We already got a hint about her character change after she came out.

[babuada]

I think Rand will definetly pick Moiraine for the Callandor circle along with Nyn. My reason comes form tEotW. Min was able to see the sparks fighting the dark when just those two were together. I feel that indicates they both have a role to play together at the LB. Rand definetly trust both of them enough and both are accomplished with weaving Saidar.

It is just threads that help Rand or each other. Some help more than others. The whole group creates more Spark. But Nyn and Mo would probably be the best combo with Rand

"The sparks, Rand. She met Mistress Alys coming in, and there were sparks, with just the two of them"

[Crossroad]

They have a opportunity here, to use all 3 magical powers to create the seals for the prison. They never had the True Power when LT created the first seals, this time they do through Rand. Strength, Trust and Knowledge are going to create the new seals. Strength doesn't have be power, it can be a belief in what u are doing is right and true, Mo, Nyn and Rand have that Strength and trust each other to do the right thing and I assume Mo has some small item of knowledge that will complete what Rand needs to know how to create unbreakable seals.

 

Its hard to say if Mo or Alivia will be part of the circle but I'm going for Mo. Why because her guidance will be so important thru the creation of the seals.

[trench]

I think Rand will definetly pick Moiraine for the Callandor circle along with Nyn. My reason comes form tEotW. Min was able to see the sparks fighting the dark when just those two were together. I feel that indicates they both have a role to play together at the LB. Rand definetly trust both of them enough and both are accomplished with weaving Saidar.

It is just threads that help Rand or each other. Some help more than others. The whole group creates more Spark. But Nyn and Mo would probably be the best combo with Rand

"The sparks, Rand. She met Mistress Alys coming in, and there were sparks, with just the two of them"

 

But the sparks are not exclusive to Rand, they relate to the war against the Shadow and how these people all are tied together in it. I beleive since both Moiraine and Nyn together can create the sparks, even without Rand or one of the other Ta'veren present indicates that these two will do something important together. Also if you couple this with Min's "failed" viewing of Moiraine haveing something important to do at the LB. I think it shows that Moiraine will be integral to helping Rand seal the bore. This little theory is not air tight but I doubt after Moiraine's return, she will end up playing second fiddle to Cadsuane or Aliva at the LB.

[babuada]

I think Rand will definetly pick Moiraine for the Callandor circle along with Nyn. My reason comes form tEotW. Min was able to see the sparks fighting the dark when just those two were together. I feel that indicates they both have a role to play together at the LB. Rand definetly trust both of them enough and both are accomplished with weaving Saidar.

It is just threads that help Rand or each other. Some help more than others. The whole group creates more Spark. But Nyn and Mo would probably be the best combo with Rand

"The sparks, Rand. She met Mistress Alys coming in, and there were sparks, with just the two of them"

 

But the sparks are not exclusive to Rand, they relate to the war against the Shadow and how these people all are tied together in it. I beleive since both Moiraine and Nyn together can create the sparks, even without Rand or one of the other Ta'veren present indicates that these two will do something important together. Also if you couple this with Min's "failed" viewing of Moiraine haveing something important to do at the LB. I think it shows that Moiraine will be integral to helping Rand seal the bore. This little theory is not air tight but I doubt after Moiraine's return, she will end up playing second fiddle to Cadsuane or Aliva at the LB.

Agree. That is what I meant by "each other". These two together would do something important against shadow.

[Kvothe_the_bloodless]

I think Rand will definetly pick Moiraine for the Callandor circle along with Nyn. My reason comes form tEotW. Min was able to see the sparks fighting the dark when just those two were together. I feel that indicates they both have a role to play together at the LB. Rand definetly trust both of them enough and both are accomplished with weaving Saidar.

It is just threads that help Rand or each other. Some help more than others. The whole group creates more Spark. But Nyn and Mo would probably be the best combo with Rand

"The sparks, Rand. She met Mistress Alys coming in, and there were sparks, with just the two of them"

 

But the sparks are not exclusive to Rand, they relate to the war against the Shadow and how these people all are tied together in it. I beleive since both Moiraine and Nyn together can create the sparks, even without Rand or one of the other Ta'veren present indicates that these two will do something important together. Also if you couple this with Min's "failed" viewing of Moiraine haveing something important to do at the LB. I think it shows that Moiraine will be integral to helping Rand seal the bore. This little theory is not air tight but I doubt after Moiraine's return, she will end up playing second fiddle to Cadsuane or Aliva at the LB.

Agree. That is what I meant by "each other". These two together would do something important against shadow.

 

Frankly I don't know why everyone is assuming that Callandor must be used the way the characters think it has to be used. The fact that everyone in the book is assuming 2 women are needed is almost proof that this is wrong since the characters in the books are almost never right about anything important.

 

Personally I think the three as one refers to the 3 taveren and that Callandor someone uses or enhances their taveren power to affect the pattern