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A Memory of Light Speculation


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There's a lot of foreshadowing in these books but I'm only interested in what happens with the DO.

 

I predict a major fight between Rand and the DO, but then again we don't know much about what the DO will look like. Does he have a physical form or is he going to be some kind of evil smoky spirit with powers?

 

 

If there's no big fight then it's going to be some kind of battle of Wills, where Rand is forced to sacrifice himself as the only option to save the world.

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Random Speculation?

 

I've just got done re-reading the first three books (and I'm going to stop there because I don't have the fourth).

 

Moiraine was a Dark friend the whole time until she went into the Aelfinn World (where maybe she wished to go back to the light).

- I understand that she's suppossed to be an awesome Aes Sedai and everything, but it seems like she finds out where (and who) the forsaken are way too easily. I think within a span of 50 some pages, she finds where two of the forsaken are ruling. It's like she just goes out on a walk and finds out within a couple of hours. How is that even possible? It seems like you would need to at least know some darkfriend to keep you informed. Also, she knew balefire (which at the time, no one else in the world knew save the forsaken(I think)).

 

Now, this is assuming that she's pulling off a "Verin" here. But who's to say that Verin was the only Aes Sedai to be a double agent? It just seems like there would be more in the world. It seems like Moiraine is the MOST determined character in the series and that she would do ANYTHING to keep the world safe.

 

Just to clarify though, even I don't believe that this will happen (just throwing out another idea). However, I think it would be a really cool twist. Just imagine how much respect she would get being known as "The Aes Sedai who outsmarted the Dark One."

 

Also as a quick idea, I do believe the three becoming one will have something to do with the wounds on Rand's side. I believe the third one wound will come by the blade of light (possibly while he's "sheathing the sword"). All 3 wounds will be dealt with by a blade like object.

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Random Speculation?

 

I've just got done re-reading the first three books (and I'm going to stop there because I don't have the fourth).

 

Moiraine was a Dark friend the whole time until she went into the Aelfinn World (where maybe she wished to go back to the light).

- I understand that she's suppossed to be an awesome Aes Sedai and everything, but it seems like she finds out where (and who) the forsaken are way too easily. I think within a span of 50 some pages, she finds where two of the forsaken are ruling. It's like she just goes out on a walk and finds out within a couple of hours. How is that even possible? It seems like you would need to at least know some darkfriend to keep you informed. Also, she knew balefire (which at the time, no one else in the world knew save the forsaken(I think)).

 

Now, this is assuming that she's pulling off a "Verin" here. But who's to say that Verin was the only Aes Sedai to be a double agent? It just seems like there would be more in the world. It seems like Moiraine is the MOST determined character in the series and that she would do ANYTHING to keep the world safe.

 

Just to clarify though, even I don't believe that this will happen (just throwing out another idea). However, I think it would be a really cool twist. Just imagine how much respect she would get being known as "The Aes Sedai who outsmarted the Dark One."

 

Also as a quick idea, I do believe the three becoming one will have something to do with the wounds on Rand's side. I believe the third one wound will come by the blade of light (possibly while he's "sheathing the sword"). All 3 wounds will be dealt with by a blade like object.

 

 

These actually seem plausible. The only thing though is that Moiraine has been attacked by shadowspawn before, hasn't she? I don't remember much of her parts from earlier in the series. I remember that Aginor and Balthamel died by the Green Man's hand and by Rand's, but I'm pretty sure Moiraine did some kind of fire weave to help them. It seems like she would have been called out by the Forsaken during several encounters if she was a darkfriend (especially with Lanfear). The Blue Ajah are also known for their dedication to world causes, so that's probably the main reason she's helping Rand.

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Random Speculation?

 

I've just got done re-reading the first three books (and I'm going to stop there because I don't have the fourth).

 

Moiraine was a Dark friend the whole time until she went into the Aelfinn World (where maybe she wished to go back to the light).

- I understand that she's suppossed to be an awesome Aes Sedai and everything, but it seems like she finds out where (and who) the forsaken are way too easily. I think within a span of 50 some pages, she finds where two of the forsaken are ruling. It's like she just goes out on a walk and finds out within a couple of hours. How is that even possible? It seems like you would need to at least know some darkfriend to keep you informed. Also, she knew balefire (which at the time, no one else in the world knew save the forsaken(I think)).

 

I don't think this is a good reason to think that Moiraine is a Darkfriend, because that doesn't explain those things very well. Moiraine not only learned who the Forsaken were, but whom they were posing as. Only very, very high ranking Darkfriends, if any, would know this. (Consider that even Alviarin didn't know who Mesanna was.) So, positing Darkfriend contacts isn't a very likely explanation.

 

As for balefire, this idea appears to entail the Forsaken teaching it to someone else, which they wouldn't do unless they had a very good reason to do so. It is worth noting that the Black Ajah has not shown signs of knowledge of how to produce balefire, other than with the ter'angreal.

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Has anyone taken in consideration that the "death" of the Dragon may be something as simple as taking the story from Harry Potter. Lews Therrin and Rand are two beings sharing one body. At the last battle Lews Therrin sacrifieces his "life" to stop the Dark One, with the help of Alivia as it is said she will help him die. Then Tada!!!! Rand stands back up and says HOLY CRAP! I'm alive!

 

Rand and Lews Therin are the same soul, and RJ has said souls cannot be split, which would need to happen for this to be the case.

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DF's are allowed to kill each other, they just can't betray the DO. Even the forsaken are expected to scheme against each other.

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Since Balefire burns the person struck out of the Pattern, and how far back it burns out is based on the amount of Power used, Rand linked with Nyn and one other (whoever that might be) using Callendor uses Balefire on Lanfear, burning her out of the Pattern til before the Bore breaks open the DO's prison.

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Since Balefire burns the person struck out of the Pattern, and how far back it burns out is based on the amount of Power used, Rand linked with Nyn and one other (whoever that might be) using Callendor uses Balefire on Lanfear, burning her out of the Pattern til before the Bore breaks open the DO's prison.

BS unequivocally debunked any such scenario in an interview

 

 

Matt: Question—We know that in the Age of Legends that the Forsaken/Chosen, everyone agreed to stop using Balefire because of its effects on the Pattern. Is it unrealistic then to say that a great amount of power could burn someone’s thread back a year or six months. Is that an unrealistic thing to say that there is enough power available to either one or multiple people to burn somebody back that far?

Brandon: I see what you are getting at you are trying to figure out if Graendal was killed with a whole lot of balefire would it bring Asmodean back to life (Brandon had heard about this idea, which he mentions later).

Matt: ...like that could ever happen...

Brandon: That’s what you are digging for isn’t you?

Matt: Let’s say, if a Forsaken was responsible for killing another Forsaken.

Brandon: Uh huh

Matt: And said Forsaken was balefired...

Brandon: You are under the assumption...You are trying to figure out who killed Asmodean again. That’s what you are trying to do and I’m not going to get caught and let you know...

Matt: It’s a legit question...and I’m sure whatever is said at this table stays at this table...

Brandon: I’m sure, the leader of Theoryland and the guy taping this...

~Much laughter from table~

Brandon: Let’s divorce it. Rand balefires Rahvin as hardcore as he could and Rand is one of the most powerful people to live and he got us, what have you determined, from the lightning killing Mat until balefire killed Rahvin, I’d guess fifteen minutes.

Matt: Well, he at least got us fifteen minutes. We don’t know how far back, we just know up to that moment.

Brandon: Well, we do know because if it had been too much further than that we would have noticed a lot of discrepancies in the Pattern from things he’d done...

Matt: Let’s say thirty minutes to an hour, at the most.

Brandon: Alright, thirty minutes to an hour. Okay, let’s say the Choedan Kal amplifies his abilities 100 fold…let’s say it’s a 100 times more powerful than Rand. That’s giving us, lets say he got an hour, we’ve got four days, from the most powerful, one of the most powerful sa’angreal ever created. I think it is unrealistic to assume you can get back a year, but that’s not saying it is impossible. I think that if you did that to the Pattern the ramifications would be so dramatic you’d see the Pattern unraveling hardcore at that point, it’s like balefiring an entire city. When I first read that guess I just laughed, I’m like guys c’mon lets run the math on this.

Matt: Like I said to Jennifer, it is my job at Theoryland to entertain these ideas.

Brandon: Yes it is, it is your job to entertain them. But in the terms of Mythbusters let’s go ahead and call that one “Busted” in the realistic world. I’ve got to give you at least something, so I’ll at least give you that...If it were possible to do things like that, we’d have the Dark One just going and balefiring you know Tam so Rand never gets picked up off the mountain....

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Since Balefire burns the person struck out of the Pattern, and how far back it burns out is based on the amount of Power used, Rand linked with Nyn and one other (whoever that might be) using Callendor uses Balefire on Lanfear, burning her out of the Pattern til before the Bore breaks open the DO's prison.

BS unequivocally debunked any such scenario in an interview

 

I actually wasn't serious about that answer. Even if possible, that much of the power going that far back would have unraveled the Pattern for sure

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Since Balefire burns the person struck out of the Pattern, and how far back it burns out is based on the amount of Power used, Rand linked with Nyn and one other (whoever that might be) using Callendor uses Balefire on Lanfear, burning her out of the Pattern til before the Bore breaks open the DO's prison.

BS unequivocally debunked any such scenario in an interview

 

I actually wasn't serious about that answer. Even if possible, that much of the power going that far back would have unraveled the Pattern for sure

sorry, I missed that. People believe all kinds of things and it's often hard to say who is being serious and who isn't especially since variations of the idea of using balefire to alter long past history were actually very popular for a while.

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i will eventually write out all my theories and opinions on what i think may or may not happen in aMoL but for now; Olver, where is he? we all know Mat is going to find him in the Battle of Caemlyn, but WHERE?

 

first, loved Olvers PoV in the epilogue of ToM

 

second, the answer to my question is that Mat will b running thru the streets of Caemlyn, with Thom and Moiraine, searching for the missing Olver. He'll be in a frenzy, killing Trollocs like a madman possessed, his ashandarei a bane to the Shadowspawn spinning death thru the Trollocs' ranks. his taveren nature will make him backtrack 2 streets and find Talmanes and some of the Band fighting a rearward action down the street. the appearance of Mat and Moiraine will turn the tide. A lull in the fighting wil occur and Talmanes will tell Mat that Olver was seen 5 minutes ago running down an intersecting street. Mat will charge down this 2nd street and enter an inn where he will find a Trolloc lying face up with a knife protruding from its neck, a small 10-yr old boys hand clenched to the knife hilt. OLVER!! they pull him out from underneath the Trolloc.

 

"Blood and ashes!! Its lucky you found me Mat. You will get yourself killed running around with Trollocs without me!! Burn me, i need a drink."

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The Horn of Valere

 

Is it still tied to Mat??

 

The reason i ask this is, if Mat has already died then would the Horn still be tied to him? as it is tied to the person who blows it 1st until their death. i think it would b an AWESOME twist if a DF got hold of the Horn primarily to keep it out of Mats hands, but being an arrogant DF they decided to play "Look at me im the Hornsounder" and this bought the dead heroes back to fight for the Shadow. (actually, that last sentence should b scrapped as the Horn can only b used in time of need or salvation or whatever it isi t says in the book but that could b tied in :)lol)

 

this has probably been spoken about b4 and IMO it wont happen but would b an excellent twist.

 

also i think that at the end of the book we will see many new heroes tied to the Horn.

 

read a post earlier where sum1 suggested that when Mat blows the Horn Noal appears with the other heores, i actually this is quite possible. i think that maybe the number of times it is mentioned over a few pages about how much of "hero" Mat thinks Noal is, possible foreshadowing??

 

Has the propecy about Mat "dying and living" again been fulfilled??

 

 

- in Rhuidean, Mat is found hanging. not dead but dying. this doesnt mean he has died and lived again.

 

- Mat is killed by Rahvin and Rand brings him back by burning Rahvin out the pattern with balefire, meaning it never happened, does the fact that it never happened mean it negates Mats prophecy. i personally think this is the fulfillment of the prophecy

 

- another possible argument for Mat NOT having "died and lived again" is the number of times RJ mentions it in Mats PoV in the books after both the incidents mentioned above. while Mat THINKS the prophecy has been fulfilled with the hanging, hes not 100% sure himself and often wonders to himself if hes still going to die, nd of course he has no knowledge of his "death" at the hands of Rahvin. if it has already happened why mention so many times, possible foretelling for final book.

 

- just thought of this 1 as im writing this post. what if Mat dies in the final book meaning that the Horn of Valere is now free to be used by anyone to recall the dead heroes and Mat is 1 of the heroes of the Horn and this is him "living" again. please tell me thats an original idea (doubt it) and i doubt it will happen but would b cool.

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:laugh: about Mat and Olver!! :laugh:

 

Re the 'die and live again' bit.. I'd love that to be true, but Mat is supposed to survive to figure in the outrigger novels.

Edited by FarShainMael
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just had a thought (yes, i now have a head ache ;p)

 

 

Gawyn will kill Rand (but will b his "1st death" so he'll come back). i thnk the number of times Gawyn mentions his hate for Rand and wanting to kill him is a foreshadowing, yes people, foreshadowing, every1s fave excuse for a theory ;p

 

BUT i think he will only do so after Rand asks him too, "for the good of the Light". cant think of a situation where this might occur. and i only think Gawyn will do it bcoz of how much he hates Rand, and would b ironic if he only does it after Rand asks him too. doubt it will actually happen but we r here to speculate

 

May u always find water and shade

Edited by Darren heron-Mark Clayden
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Personally, I prefer the theory that Gawyn wanted to kill Rand because he is an idiot.

 

On a more serious note, I don't think Rand would need to ask anyone to kill him, since he knows that he can simply overdraw on the One Power to commit suicide.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Right, heres a crazy idea - Matt and Perrin can learn to channel and there is evidence that this is so

 

1. when perrin first enters a steddin there is a feelin of something missin

2. when Lanfear visits Matt in the WT he feels a tingling on his arm like Rand does when a women channels

3. when Taim travels to the two rivers to test the men there and discovers that most of the men in emonds field can channel and I think that it would be strange that they would be the only 2 men from the two rivers that cant channel.

 

Also, an idea on the title significance, it isn't that one the forsaken is going to come back to the light although that might happen, it's more likely that the world will be overun with the shadows forces and only a memory of light will keep the forces of light fighting perhaps with rand supposedly dead

 

I also believe that we have not seen of aelfinn and the eelfinn and that they will play a part in the final battle with Slayer because he does go into the tower of ghenjei in TAR

 

and I believe that that is that

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3. when Taim travels to the two rivers to test the men there and discovers that most of the men in emonds field can channel and I think that it would be strange that they would be the only 2 men from the two rivers that cant channel.

 

 

 

erm... in no way would they be the only 2 men from the Two Rivers who can't channel. Most of the men from the Two Rivers cannot channel just a higher proportion than any where else. Many more Two Rivers men are with Perrins army than at the Black Tower.

 

I've always put the high number of channellers in the Two Rivers, both male and female, down to the Blood of Manetheren manifesting itself and it is manifesting itself strongly during the time of the books because of three taveren growing up there. I could b completely wrong on the Manetheren and taveren thing tho. The reason for the high number of channellers in TR may even be explained in the books and I just can't remember reading it.

Edited by Darren heron-Mark Clayden
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I've always put the high number of channellers in the Two Rivers, both male and female, down to the Blood of Manetheren manifesting itself and it is manifesting itself strongly during the time of the books because of three taveren growing up there.

That, and inbreeding. Which is presumably why Two Rivers cats all have six toes.

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. . . you know inbreeding isn't causing the cats to have 6 toes. . . natural selection, perhaps.

 

the cats have thumbs. the humans can channel. i see the evolutionary parallel.

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  • 1 month later...

Now I have seen tons of what you guys( and girls ) have all said but none really said what I think has the eat chance of bening right. We know by aden future visions that they will win and Rand will NOT die, it was stated that "the dragon had left/deserted/abounded them. Keep in mind they don't say that about people who die, but anyway just think of it this way, after the last battle Rand goes to the orgers portal stone to leave that world with them because the dragon role was to win the last battle after that he would only stop the progress they would stop to make, the scean are at peace with everyone and te aiel because rand did not bow to there queen and thus show weakness, and at the end only Min goes with him because aven has to lead the aiel and elyane has here people,but before he leaves he uses the angel ( fat man with sword ) and make sure none can follow him, and something like in a way he will always watch them.

Well hope you guys liked my idea mesg me and tell me if you agree

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I just can't see something like this fitting the prophecy satisfactorily. IMO, neither option would qualify as "twice dawns the day". Perhaps I'm being too literal but so far I can only think of two options that would really fit it:

1. a physically impossible event like the sun actually going back and then rising again (this can be quite safely discounted, I'm sure) or

2. the prophecy simply speaks of two different days on which Rand's blood will be shed.

 

I agree. The sun returning from behind a cloud no matter how dark does not construe being a 'dawn'. Nor can I see a way to balefire anything so that the Sun dawn's twice. (What would you balefire to do this?) If you are going to use poetic license to extend to other dawn type stuff, then it is much easier to use poetic license to mean two different days.

 

On the other hand, since Shayol Ghul is probably within the artic circle the Sun may be low enough to 'dawn' twice if there are tall mountains nearby, which there are at Shayol Ghul. It would be quite fitting if Rand's blood was shed on the slopes of Shoyol Ghul as the Sun goes behind it and have Rand's final victory as the Sun dawn's again on the other side of Shayol Ghul.

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In regards to the "Twice dawns the day" theories there are a lot of possibilities since prophecy is interpretive. I see a lot of discussion focusing on how the physics of the world could fit to make such an event occur. However, what if the darkness has nothing to do with the the absence of the sun itself. I've always been partial to the solar eclipse theory, but maybe we're thinking too small with that.

 

When the original bore was made by Lanfear, darkness oozed out from it IIRC. At that time, the dark one was likely unaware that he was about to be freed from his prison (do we have an estimate on how long it has been since his last freeing?) and was not prepared to lash out with his might. In the current age, the dark one knows that the seals will not hold and has been readying for the moment for 3k years. It's likely that he'll lash out with an immense amount of power. At that point, maybe he'll be able to blanket the entire globe with part of his own being and thereby making it eternal night, the darkness so beautiful. Maybe his second release will go as far as destroying his prison entirely.

 

Dark prophecy is fulfilled at that point, but it doesn't mean hope is lost. Just as the dark one is freed, Callandored up Rand and his girls will link, pulling vast amount of power and with the help of the flaw, be able to pool the power so it encircles the entirety of the dark one's reach. As the dark one pushes his power out to destroy the pattern, Rand and company are able to pull a creationary moment and solidify the power around dark one instantly creating his new prison, thus bringing about the rebirth of the world from the brink of utter destruction and the second dawn as he is sealed in a new, bore free prison.

 

Of course, this is just very idle and poor speculation.

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