Cyndane

[Luckers]

Go.

[Shaidar]

(1) A trap?

Seems to be consensus opinion - and IMO correct.

Though a mindtrap is hardly pleasant, I'd imagine, it does not "torture" in the same graphic way presented in the dream.

More likely Rand has stumbled into Moridin's depressive dreams again.

 

(2) Genuine?

No real evidence for that and a "redemption" set-up for (femme fatale) Lanfear would be too cliche.

[Random Man]

It's possible that now she's fallen out of favor that she doesn't like her master so much. It isn't so pleasant to serve the DO when he perceives you as having failed and is punishing you. She's possibly in a position she's never been in before -- perhaps she really is regretting her oaths now that she's found herself forced into submission.

 

Cyndane's on-screen time shows her as acting around the other Forsaken as someone who's still dedicated. But it could be a show. Lanfear did try to tempt Rand into usurping the DO and the Creator. She cares about power, and now that she's been rendered into no more than a tool by the mindtrap, it might have changed her allegiances.

 

Just because we never saw torture inflicted on Lanfear as we did with Moghedien (and what we didn't see that RJ told us about) doesn't mean she wasn't tortured in a similar way. So I would certainly be skeptical about her being "born again," but I can't dismiss it as a possibility without further information.

[didymos]

It actually reminds me a lot of Ishy's "Kari" gambit back in tEotW.

[Dams1986]

I'd have to get out my book but it sounded a lot as if Cyndane had been twisted in some way, perhaps by opening the Bore. There's been clues before. I'm sure Rand/Lews Therin remembers when he and Mierin worked together and she hadn't been like this. There's also the part in tSR when we find out one of the Aiel from the AoL worked for Mierin and I'm sure he thinks kindly of her, she agreed to let him serve another Aes Sedai because he wanted to get married. So I much prefer the theory that she's actually been twisted and is going to come good in the end and help defeat the DO... mainly because that came out of nowhere and I'd really not considered it despite the couple of clues RJ had left us.

 

Also, one other point... did Cyndane's wishes involve giving the Finn some of her power and giving up her beauty in exchange for being freed?

[Dead Guy]

No, Moiraine states that the Finns feed on a channelers power with the One Power, diminishing it in the process.

[yoniy0]

It actually reminds me a lot of Ishy's "Kari" gambit back in tEotW.

Good point.

[Random Man]

So what did Lanfear wish for, then? Anyone think she wished for a way to be free of her ties to the DO? Not that I'd think her reformed but that she'd see it as advantageous to loose the leash around her neck if she could, considering that she'd expect punishment for her failures.

[Dams1986]

No, Moiraine states that the Finns feed on a channelers power with the One Power, diminishing it in the process.

 

Obviously but Lanfear was protected by the treaties. That hardly precludes her offering some of her power and her beauty in return for being freed. The Finn's feed on emotion and taking Lanfear's strength and beauty would be an excellent way to make her hysterical, right?

[Guest]

I have to say up until now i havent thought Lanfear to be loyal to the DO, She even wants to usurp both him and the creator with Rand at her side. She may not be light, but i guess shes not dark either. Grey :P She is just has to have what she sets her mind on, the power she felt, and LTT. I guess once she wants something she has to have it, spoiled-daughter-syndrome :P

 

The only time she is against rand is when she finds out he slept with Aviendha, jealousy is a bitch

 

Going over to the light? possibly, however i dont see what she could gain by it.

[Dams1986]

We do know that this makes sense btw because Moiraine says that she's not even strong enough in herself to be raised Accepted in the White Tower. It definitely fits. Not that it's important as such - just interesting.

[karehiro]

I also was reminded of the Kari al'Thor incident. In fact, I actually believed the Dark One was using either her again or Tigraine in order to do a mind-screw on Rand, until Rand identified her to us.

 

What I found most interesting was Rand's reaction to her. He still felt hatred and of course he felt concern since he's a good guy, but the fact is that he either still holds some feelings for her as Selene or Mierin or he just plainly desires her despite everything. I'm really interested in what will result from that and if Mierin knows her effect on him.

 

No, Moiraine states that the Finns feed on a channelers power with the One Power, diminishing it in the process.

 

Obviously but Lanfear was protected by the treaties. That hardly precludes her offering some of her power and her beauty in return for being freed. The Finn's feed on emotion and taking Lanfear's strength and beauty would be an excellent way to make her hysterical, right?

 

What's interesting is that she's still arguably the strongest female channeler and one of the most beautiful women even after having both attributes lessened. Mierin seemed to have previous knowledge on the Finns though. Remember when it was said that there was no way any female channeler unaided could be stronger than she was as Lanfear? Maybe she had asked for that strength from them to be the strongest a woman could possibly be during the Age of Legends?

[Jeangray]

So, did the Finn drain her to death or not? The new body says yes. The only slightly diminished strength in OP says no. Or was she Healed by a woman upon transmigration, after all? IIRC, at least one of the BA was a Yellow who learned Nynaeve's technic. And she has the 3 wishes too, whatever they are. What a nuisance!

[Dams1986]

Whichever it is, Cyndane is definitely (for me) one of the most exciting development of ToM. I have so many questions now about what she asked for from the Finns and whether she's actually one of the good guys or whether this is one of the final traps of the Shadow. It's definitely going to get me reading up on all the references to Mierin in the AoL!

[JDJ]

(1) A trap?

Seems to be consensus opinion - and IMO correct.

Though a mindtrap is hardly pleasant, I'd imagine, it does not "torture" in the same graphic way presented in the dream.

More likely Rand has stumbled into Moridin's depressive dreams again.

 

(2) Genuine?

No real evidence for that and a "redemption" set-up for (femme fatale) Lanfear would be too cliche.

 

More of "1" and perhaps a little of "2".

 

I think she realizes she is not gonna get any power or the level of power she wants in her current situation. Her goal is to basically supplant the DO. I suspect she ends up helping Rand (including with Callandor), especially given her knowledge of the Bore, in an attempt to then either get what she wants from him or by destroying him in the end.

 

Rand will save Lanfear, there is no question in my mind about that. What I am not sure about is if Rand will then trap her (ie: take over the mind trap, if that is possible) to force her to help him, or let Lanfear go ahead with her plan as long as he feels he can still use her.

 

Would be cool to see Elayne / Avi / Min take out Lanfear once done, to protect Rand (and perhaps his inability to get rid of Lanfear) in the end.

 

Lanfear will not turn to the light, she will turn whichever way she thinks she can get an advantage for power.

[Rufae]

When I first read WoT, back in the Great Hunt Book 2 up through The Shadow Rising, my first impression was Lanfear/Selene was going to return to the Light. We have Moiraine's favorite saying, "No one has been in the shadow so long that they canot return to the Light" (paraprhased) Why would that keep being repeated during Lanfear's most active time period if it was not referring to her? What other character do we know that was a long time darkfriend who returned to the Light to justify this phrase beng so prominate? Ingtar was too minor of a character I think.

 

Lanfear created the Bore. So it is defninately within the logic of the Wheel of Time that she turns around and helps to seal the Bore. Moiraine said much the same thing when Mat told her about Rand cleansing Saidin,

[nolirion]

When I first read WoT, back in the Great Hunt Book 2 up through The Shadow Rising, my first impression was Lanfear/Selene was going to return to the Light. We have Moiraine's favorite saying, "No one has been in the shadow so long that they canot return to the Light" (paraprhased) Why would that keep being repeated during Lanfear's most active time period if it was not referring to her? What other character do we know that was a long time darkfriend who returned to the Light to justify this phrase beng so prominate? Ingtar was too minor of a character I think.

 

Lanfear created the Bore. So it is defninately within the logic of the Wheel of Time that she turns around and helps to seal the Bore. Moiraine said much the same thing when Mat told her about Rand cleansing Saidin,

I think this was mainly about Ingtar, I mean "No one has been in the shadow so long that they canot return to the Light" that well and good , but what about Fain ?

Or Weiramon or Turkomen ?

She is in NO position to turn to the light and I seriously doubt she would want it

[Rufae]

When I first read WoT, back in the Great Hunt Book 2 up through The Shadow Rising, my first impression was Lanfear/Selene was going to return to the Light. We have Moiraine's favorite saying, "No one has been in the shadow so long that they canot return to the Light" (paraprhased) Why would that keep being repeated during Lanfear's most active time period if it was not referring to her? What other character do we know that was a long time darkfriend who returned to the Light to justify this phrase beng so prominate? Ingtar was too minor of a character I think.

 

Lanfear created the Bore. So it is defninately within the logic of the Wheel of Time that she turns around and helps to seal the Bore. Moiraine said much the same thing when Mat told her about Rand cleansing Saidin,

I think this was mainly about Ingtar, I mean "No one has been in the shadow so long that they canot return to the Light" that well and good , but what about Fain ?

Or Weiramon or Turkomen ?

She is in NO position to turn to the light and I seriously doubt she would want it

 

I disagree. I think Ingtar was too minor of a character for such an important mantra. There is too much pointing towards a Lanfear conversion.

[nolirion]

When I first read WoT, back in the Great Hunt Book 2 up through The Shadow Rising, my first impression was Lanfear/Selene was going to return to the Light. We have Moiraine's favorite saying, "No one has been in the shadow so long that they canot return to the Light" (paraprhased) Why would that keep being repeated during Lanfear's most active time period if it was not referring to her? What other character do we know that was a long time darkfriend who returned to the Light to justify this phrase beng so prominate? Ingtar was too minor of a character I think.

 

Lanfear created the Bore. So it is defninately within the logic of the Wheel of Time that she turns around and helps to seal the Bore. Moiraine said much the same thing when Mat told her about Rand cleansing Saidin,

I think this was mainly about Ingtar, I mean "No one has been in the shadow so long that they canot return to the Light" that well and good , but what about Fain ?

Or Weiramon or Turkomen ?

She is in NO position to turn to the light and I seriously doubt she would want it

 

I disagree. I think Ingtar was too minor of a character for such an important mantra. There is too much pointing towards a Lanfear conversion.

Yet that Particular man did influence Rand a lot , to me this particular quote apply to Verrin . I may still be wrong but I would not like Lanfear to turn to the light i wil much more like Morri to do it THAT would complete the cycle

[Duskfire]

I seriously doubt Lanfear will turn to the Light. She is one of the most well-known Forsaken for a reason, and that isnt because she has a soft spot for children or anything. She is a horrible murderous psychopath. Just because she placed her obsession with Lews Therin over her service to the Dark One doesn't make her good or grey - if anything it makes her worst then the others, because it just adds to her unpredictability.

 

Not to mention, if she did, who would trust her? No one. Rand wouldnt even trust Asmodean, and he is arguably the "tamer" of the Forsaken, if such a thing is possible.

[nolirion]

 

 

Not to mention, if she did, who would trust her? No one. Rand wouldnt even trust Asmodean, and he is arguably the "tamer" of the Forsaken, if such a thing is possible.

Moghedien and Semirhage did do a nice job at being tamed , but I agree if Lanfear is less of sadistic then Semirhage she is still a psychotic murderous very nice looking women

[nateand]

Something that stuck out to me was that Moiraine's strength in the power was reduced by the finns feeding on her...

 

If this means the finns have the ability the reduce someone's strength in the power, perhaps they have the ability to increase it as well? Perhaps that explains why Lanfear/cyndane thought no one could possibly be stronger than she once had been?

[WhiskyJack]

Something that stuck out to me was that Moiraine's strength in the power was reduced by the finns feeding on her...

If this means the finns have the ability the reduce someone's strength in the power, perhaps they have the ability to increase it as well? Perhaps that explains why Lanfear/cyndane thought no one could possibly be stronger than she once had been?

 

 

Because Lanfear was as strong as any woman could be without the aid of an angreal or sa'angreal.

[nolirion]

Something that stuck out to me was that Moiraine's strength in the power was reduced by the finns feeding on her...

If this means the finns have the ability the reduce someone's strength in the power, perhaps they have the ability to increase it as well? Perhaps that explains why Lanfear/cyndane thought no one could possibly be stronger than she once had been?

 

 

Because Lanfear was as strong as any woman could be without the aid of an angreal or sa'angreal.

Well Alivia show her How wrong she was

[Duskfire]

 

 

Not to mention, if she did, who would trust her? No one. Rand wouldnt even trust Asmodean, and he is arguably the "tamer" of the Forsaken, if such a thing is possible.

Moghedien and Semirhage did do a nice job at being tamed , but I agree if Lanfear is less of sadistic then Semirhage she is still a psychotic murderous very nice looking women

 

But being tamed is different to joining the Light. if Cyndane would allow herself to be leashed or her mindtrap tranfer to Rand somehow then sure, she could be useful. But thats what would have to happen, and its highly doubtful Rand would even do that. I see her as worst then Semirhage. Semirhage was a sadistic torture, but she was cold and calculating. Lanfear is all passion and emotion and rage; those sorts of people you just never ever trust, because they could turn on you at any moment. She is like a rabid dog, who can channel.