Quick Question - Is Lan a Blademaster Bc He Killed Toram Raitin?

[The Fisher King]

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Fish

[didymos]

Lan's been a blademaster for decades now. And you don't have to kill someone. Why does everybody keep saying that? Read the Prologue in KoD again: you can test for it. If 5 blademasters agree you're a blademaster, then you're a blademaster. In fact, just killing someone who is one is not enough either. It must be witnessed, as explained when Gawyn fights Sleete in TGS. That's why Rand killing Turak did not count, as RJ (and Rand) explained. That's also why it did count when Galad killed Valda: he had witnesses galore.

[Callahan]

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Fish

 

 

Lan didn't fight Toram, Rand did that in Cairhien..

[didymos]

Lan didn't kill Toram, Rand did.

 

No. It was Lan, in Far Madding, with the sword of the Malkieri kings. Rand was busy going after Fain.

[cap10kirk]

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Fish

 

 

Lan didn't fight Toram, Rand did that in Cairhien..

Lan killed Toram in Far Madden.

[Callahan]

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Fish

 

 

Lan didn't fight Toram, Rand did that in Cairhien..

Lan killed Toram in Far Madden.

 

 

I stand corrected.I forgot that Toram survived the earlier fight with Rand...jeez that feels like forever ago.

[jdbond]

Lan carries his ancestral power built sword. Obviously the ancestor who received it first wasn't Blademaster. In Randland, I am not sure right now who can actually beat Lan in a sword fight even though he is an old man.

[didymos]

I stand corrected.I forgot that Toram survived the earlier fight with Rand...jeez that feels like forever ago.

 

In publishing time, it was forever ago. aCoS, wherein they duel, came out in '96. WH in '00. In story time, not that long, actually. From Rand's duel to the fight in Far Madding? About 58 days.

[didymos]

In Randland, I am not sure right now who can actually beat Lan in a sword fight even though he is an old man.

 

Lan is 47. That's not exactly old. He's also a Warder, so he gets a vitality bonus. That's why the only real sign of aging he has is a bit of gray at the temples.

[The Fisher King]

In Randland, I am not sure right now who can actually beat Lan in a sword fight even though he is an old man.

 

Lan is 47. That's not exactly old. He's also a Warder, so he gets a vitality bonus. That's why the only real sign of aging he has is a bit of gray at the temples.

 

But Lan is Aes Sedai - so even a little gray at the temples is a sign he is pretty aged.

 

 

Fish

[jdbond]

In Randland, I am not sure right now who can actually beat Lan in a sword fight even though he is an old man.

 

Lan is 47. That's not exactly old. He's also a Warder, so he gets a vitality bonus. That's why the only real sign of aging he has is a bit of gray at the temples.

 

But Lan is Aes Sedai - so even a little gray at the temples is a sign he is pretty aged.

 

 

Fish

 

Lan Mandragoran is a man! LOL.

[The Fisher King]

In Randland, I am not sure right now who can actually beat Lan in a sword fight even though he is an old man.

 

Lan is 47. That's not exactly old. He's also a Warder, so he gets a vitality bonus. That's why the only real sign of aging he has is a bit of gray at the temples.

 

But Lan is Aes Sedai - so even a little gray at the temples is a sign he is pretty aged.

 

 

Fish

 

Lan Mandragoran is a man! LOL.

 

I meant WARDER - LOL!!! ... I'm a Doof!!! ... I was just trying to posit that because he posesses that ''Vitality Boost'' that Warders get, I would think that even a bit of gray would be very telling - like he has to be up there. I am sure it has been confirmed that he is 47...but it seems older to me. All things considrered.

 

 

Fish

[Sid]

Heh, that was good Fish. I'm sure Lan would have even raised an eyebrow at that accusation.

 

I don't recall reading anything about if warders live longer than unbonded men, but all the aged warders out there are always 'tough as old roots'. I'd be willing to say that he's graying a little because he's 47, and he'd be graying at 47 even without the bond. I believe the bond allows warders to maintain peak physical shape and more for their age, and perhaps a slightly longer lifespan than normal because of that, but not as if they could channel even a little bit. Morgase, who can channel barely a whisper, will still slow and maintain her youthful appearance for longer than non-channelers would, but Warders do not have this happen.

 

As for seeming older, Lan was forced to 'grow up' at a rather young age for what it's worth.

[The Fisher King]

Heh, that was good Fish. I'm sure Lan would have even raised an eyebrow at that accusation.

 

I don't recall reading anything about if warders live longer than unbonded men, but all the aged warders out there are always 'tough as old roots'. I'd be willing to say that he's graying a little because he's 47, and he'd be graying at 47 even without the bond. I believe the bond allows warders to maintain peak physical shape and more for their age, and perhaps a slightly longer lifespan than normal because of that, but not as if they could channel even a little bit. Morgase, who can channel barely a whisper, will still slow and maintain her youthful appearance for longer than non-channelers would, but Warders do not have this happen.

 

As for seeming older, Lan was forced to 'grow up' at a rather young age for what it's worth.

 

I hear ya, Sid.

 

So, Sid - and everyone - how many ACKNOWLEDGED BladeMasters are living in Randland currently.

 

My poor mind is only remembering 4: Galad Damodred, Rand Al Thor, Gareth Bryne and Lan Mandragoran.

 

 

Fish

[Tom Sawyer]

 

No. It was Lan, in Far Madding, with the sword of the Malkieri kings.

 

It's like Wheel of Time Clue.

[The Fisher King]

 

No. It was Lan, in Far Madding, with the sword of the Malkieri kings.

 

It's like Wheel of Time Clue.

 

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

At least it wasn't the butler with the candlestick!!!

 

 

 

Fish

[The Fisher King]

Still thinking about Toram Raitin.

 

I wonder how HE became a Blademaster?

 

I also wonder about the number of them alive. Like I said, I can only think of four right now (Lan, Rand, Galad and Gareth).

 

I know Valda and Raitin were, but of course they be toast.

 

I don't think Blademaster is a title as rare as something like ''Great Captain'' (in which there are only five)but I certainly do not think there is alot of them in the world either.

 

I would bet less than 50.

 

 

 

Fish

[Sid]

Tam al'Thor is one, and I believe Rodel Ituralde is too. The Seanchan General (Turan) he defeated was. Hammar was one, whom Gawyn defeated. Valda was one, whom Galad defeated. Turak was one, whom Rand defeated. I would wager that Demandred isn't, nor is Moridin... I can't remember if Bryne is or not (stupid ideal seek not TGS updated ). Is Agelmar's sword ever described in his scenes?

 

Lan is actually a blademaster long before TEotW according to the big white book.

 

So by my count I have Rand, Gawyn, Tam, and Lan (without the actual blades) and Ituralde and Galad (with the blades).

[Luckers]

Warders don't live longer than normal people, but they do retain their vitality and strength into old age.

[didymos]

Heh, that was good Fish. I'm sure Lan would have even raised an eyebrow at that accusation.

 

I don't recall reading anything about if warders live longer than unbonded men, but all the aged warders out there are always 'tough as old roots'. I'd be willing to say that he's graying a little because he's 47, and he'd be graying at 47 even without the bond.

 

Yeah, you're right, according to RJ:

Warders don’t slow. They age at a natural pace, but they do maintain vitality and vigor beyond the levels associated with most ordinary men.

 

For some reason, all that talk about him having an unlined face made me think the bond mitigated signs of aging somewhat, even if Warders don't get an extended lifespan. I guess Lan just has good genes, especially considering the amount of stress the dude's put up with since practically birth.

[Durinax]

Rand Gawyn (by technicality no witnesses present as far as we know) are not blademasters according to the standards provided that you must defeat a blademaster in a 1 on 1 duel with witnesses.

 

Theres a Tairen highlord I believe who holds a heron mark I recall mat fighting one when he goes to get to the girls

[didymos]

I would bet less than 50.

 

RJ actually answered this one, in part:

 

Ranny: I don't think this'll come up at all in the series, so hopefully it won't be a RAFO. ;) Just how 'organized' is the institution of blademastery, if we can call it that? I believe you hinted before that there's more to blademastery than beating a blademaster and taking his sword. And, how many blademasters do you imagine exist in Randland at the time of the books? Just how rare is it?

 

RJ: First off...rarity. Fewer than 100 men in the nations that are spoken of in the book. It is a semi-formal thing; that is, normally one is chosen to become a blademaster by other blademasters. There's no real organization. If you want to become a blademaster, you have to find other blademasters who are willing to acknowledge you as an equal.

 

So we can reasonably surmise it's close to 100, otherwise he'd have named a lower number. I doubt he included Seanchan and Shara in that group of nations, because they really aren't spoken of much to, well, speak of, so I think it's safe to say it's well over 100 worldwide.

 

[The Fisher King]

@Durinax and didymos...Interesting about RJ's comments. So between 50 and 100. Closer to the 100...that sounds about right to me too.

 

Also, Gawyn is described as being sick enough with a sword that he is probably at that skill level, but, yeah, he hasn't been acknowledged yet.

 

 

 

Fish

[didymos]

Rand Gawyn (by technicality no witnesses present as far as we know) are not blademasters according to the standards provided that you must defeat a blademaster in a 1 on 1 duel with witnesses.

 

Gawyn is, because him killing Hammar was witnessed. He didn't just run into the dude off in some deserted corner of the Tower grounds, but led a group against the one with Hammar, which was trying to free Siuan. Sleete, a blademaster himself, and Marlesh both think that was a "good" kill. Rand definitely didn't, though his case is even more of a technicality than it seems: there were da'covale and such present, but they studiously ignored the duel and stared at the floor the whole time. Plus, it's not certain that even had they watched they would have qualified as adequate witnesses.

[didymos]

I can't remember if Bryne is or not (stupid ideal seek not TGS updated ).

 

Bryne is. TGS Chapter 40 confirms he carries a heron-mark blade, and he's not the type who'd do so if he hadn't earned the right.