Discuss Prologue Through Chapter 5

[Luckers]

Go.

[Luckers]

Don't have the book yet but a friend let me read the first five chapters, so I figure I'd put my thoughts and questions down at this point (remember, though I ask the question you aren't allowed to answer with anything beyond chapter 5)... lets see...

 

Liked the Egwene and Rand interaction--people have called it underwhelming, but I think a temper tantrum would have been annoying at this point--and I really loved the interaction between Rand and Siuan. Awesome. Found the whole 'omg Rand is so cool I just bet he could break a full circle of thirteen' thing a bit gratuitous. I really hope this doesn't go on, it runs the risk of him getting too cool for school, if you know what I mean. One thing I may or may not include under that reference is Bryne referring to him as being like an Aes Sedai--this could be just one of those things, or it could be the first step toward men being accepted as Aes Sedai again, something I wouldn't have thought plausible. If the thought is being entered into evidence now, though... This brings me to the questions.

 

1. Why Tiana? How did Verin know Rand would come near her, and why trust this to an Aes Sedai who seems relatively incompetent?

 

2. What's Egwene's plans for the Wise Ones. This in particular really intrigues me--I know alot of people will look at that and say 'oh Egwene's so arrogant', but I look at it and recall her respect for the Wise Ones, and thoughts like the one about Aes Sedai learning from the Wise Ones, and can't help but think her plan will be one that isn't so much about gaining control of the Wise Ones, but one to incorperate their strength and capability into the Towers--which can only be a good thing, to my mind.

 

As for Perrin and Galad--I liked chapter four more than I liked all of Perrin's previous chapters together--the return of focus to his arc is a very welcome evolution. And Galad--finally an argument that I could actually see would bring the Whitecloaks to ally with the Aes Sedai. The whole thing with the Blight was really cool as well--and he's beginning to creep me out with his intentions (like in a good way). I genuinely believe he can lead the Whitecloaks back into a position of influence--which I don't like in the 'oh no the Whitecloaks are horrible human beings' sense, but do think is a nifty thematic twist. I look forward to when Galad and Perrin meet. Bornhald will be all 'he's the man who killed my father' and Morgase will be 'he's the man who saved your mother'. :D

 

Then of course there is chapter 5. What an epic chapter. So many elements. Despite Egwene's dream I still think that the murders are being commited by the Bloodknives--so the question is...

 

3. Is Mesaana involved with the Bloodknives, or will there be a different set of murders upcoming?

 

4. Are the three Aes Sedai murdered before the one in chapter 5 Nalasia Merhan, Teramina and Jamilila Norsish, or is the death count actually up to seven?

 

Beyond that, I found it interesting that Gawyn referenced that no one knew what Egwene was planning for the palace Elaida begun--another foreshadow for the resolution of the male channeler issue? Also the fact that she is planning to have a lot of Accepted (and like advanced Rebel novices) tested was cool. I've already said I think the chapter 'A Testing' will likely be Nynaeve testing and raised to the shawl... I thought Darlin was a clever approach for Egwene to take, but I'm looking forward to her having more issues in undercutting Rand than she realises. Also, though I agree with Egwene that Gawyn is not ready, her high-handed way of dealing with him was a little annoying. As a final note, her plan for dealing with Mesaana intrigues me. I believe Egwene is capable enough to take down Mesaana.

 

Graendal. Didn't love the way she was written, but I did love the content of this scene. So many tidbits. The fact that Moridin seems to know the Dark Ones thoughts and sounded like him at one point has all sorts of creepy implications for the link to Rand. Graendal's reference to their former humanity was also nice, as were the various thing of the power. The Dreamspike, once activated, I'm guessing went to Tel'aran'rhiod... that seems the likely explanation.

 

5. Who has the other Dreamspike?

 

6. The prophecy of Perrin's death. I wonder if its a trick against Graendal--all that 'he will escape you' stuff.

 

That's all I got for now. :D Good stuff.

[Negawonka]

To control the bloodknives she would have to find them and use compulsion on them. While I think she would use compulsion on them and use them to do her bidding, I don't think she can find them. Assassins are notoriously hard to find, and I find it a bit hard to believe that she can do something so completely (i.e. finding all of the bloodknives) when the tower AS can't even find one of them.

 

So it is possible, but I doubt she is involved.

[Oliver]

This is one of the chapters I had a theory on right away. There are murders going on in the white tower and they all think its BA. it hasnt been revealed yet but I swear that it is the Seanchan guys who get left behind to cause chaos. thoughts?

[jdbond]

Bloodknives have very short lifespan. They are not hired assassins you can keep hidden and let them lose when need be. They die in few days unless this all happened in 2-3 days after the battle.

[Luckers]

Bloodknives can survive for weeks, with care. Confirmed by Brandon.

[fionwe1987]

I hope you can answer some questions!

 

1) Egwene is undercutting Rand? What's behind that? I was expecting tons of arguments, but a broad agreement to work together. That doesn't happen?

 

2) What isn't Gawyn ready for? Sex, marriage, Wardership?

 

3) Verin left a letter for Rand with Tiana? I suppose this happened when she went to the Rebel camp thinking to see Egwene there? And is Tiana still the MoN, or has Egwene replaced her?

 

4) What role is Siuan playing? Is she still in Egwene's deepest councils or is she ostracized a little?

 

5) The three who were murdered were possible Mesaana suspects, right? Why would Mesaana kill people who may possibly be mistaken as her? I refuse to believe the Bloodknives just happened to kill the right women.

 

Thanks in advance!

[KefkaPalazzo]

I hope you can answer some questions!

 

1) Egwene is undercutting Rand? What's behind that? I was expecting tons of arguments, but a broad agreement to work together. That doesn't happen?

 

2) What isn't Gawyn ready for? Sex, marriage, Wardership?

 

3) Verin left a letter for Rand with Tiana? I suppose this happened when she went to the Rebel camp thinking to see Egwene there? And is Tiana still the MoN, or has Egwene replaced her?

 

4) What role is Siuan playing? Is she still in Egwene's deepest councils or is she ostracized a little?

 

5) The three who were murdered were possible Mesaana suspects, right? Why would Mesaana kill people who may possibly be mistaken as her? I refuse to believe the Bloodknives just happened to kill the right women.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

As for #3, I believe that she was sacked. Egwene told Silviana to choose a new MoN. If Egewne wanted to keep her on, wouldn't she have told her "and I have a new MoN for you, too, so you don't need to find a third MoN in 2 weeks"? She also throws in a jab at Tiana with the line "some of the novices aren't the usual age. Find someone capable of dealing with them," when we know that Tiana has trouble with the older novices. (Sharina immediately springs to mind)

[bscuga]

Maybe I am missing something, but what is a Dreamspike?

[fionwe1987]

I heard from another source that Egwene and Rand have a major disagreement on his decision to break the Seals? Is there a reason she opposes this? I'm kind of shocked, because one of my biggest expectations was that after tGS, they would both work together.

[Terez]

Maybe I am missing something, but what is a Dreamspike?

A very nifty ter'angreal.

[bscuga]

Maybe I am missing something, but what is a Dreamspike?

A very nifty ter'angreal.

 

 

So what does this nifty ter'angreal do? Can anyone use it (non-channler/man)? How many are there?

[Beren]

5) The three who were murdered were possible Mesaana suspects, right? Why would Mesaana kill people who may possibly be mistaken as her? I refuse to believe the Bloodknives just happened to kill the right women.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

I will answer this with a question of my own. Why would you think that Mesaana and the Bloodknives would even be working together?

 

 

 

Maybe I am missing something, but what is a Dreamspike?

A very nifty ter'angreal.

 

 

So what does this nifty ter'angreal do? Can anyone use it (non-channler/man)? How many are there?

 

1) RAFO (I've always wanted to say that)

2) RAFO

3) We know of two at this point.

[jdbond]

^^You do realize that you are in spoiler thread, right? If people want to RAFO, why would they be even here? Either everyone who has read the book should stop coming to this particular sub section till Nov. 2 or just discuss the book full on. Everyone who comes here comes at their own risk. Whats with all the lame "RAFO, I cannot tell you that"..blah blah comments?. If you don't wanna answer, stop commenting here!

[bscuga]

^^You do realize that you are in spoiler thread, right? If people want to RAFO, why would they be even here? Either everyone who has read the book should stop coming to this particular sub section till Nov. 2 or just discuss the book full on. Everyone who comes here comes at their own risk. Whats with all the lame "RAFO, I cannot tell you that"..blah blah comments?. If you don't wanna answer, stop commenting here!

 

 

I agree 100%. I want spoilers, not RAFOs. If I happen to get the book early (hopefully tomorrow - I found a small independent bookstore that told me they would have it on Thursday) I will release all the spoilers anyone wants to know. If you are on this sub-section, you know full well that spoilers will be released.

[JenniferL]

You can ONLY post spoilers for chapters 1-5 here. Not for the later chapters. Some people like to discuss as they read.

 

Full book spoilers go in the full book spoiler thread.

[Beren]

My apologies for posting later spoilers then. The other people in the thread made it seem otherwise. Thank you for removing them!

[JenniferL]

Currently, I'm the only moderator for this forum. So I'm the only one who you need to pay attention to. =)

[Luckers]

jdbond, bscuga, just to clarify for you, this is a discussion board, not a 'demand spoilers' board. If people choose not to share with you, you are required to accept it. Demands will be treated as a form of rudeness, as will indignation over refusals.

 

If it helps, think of it this way--this board is for people who have read the book to discuss it with each other. You are permitted in to read what they are talking about, and if you are polite, to ask questions--which they can refuse to answer. If you are looking for a plot summary, go elsewhere. That is not the purpose of this board.

 

5) The three who were murdered were possible Mesaana suspects, right? Why would Mesaana kill people who may possibly be mistaken as her? I refuse to believe the Bloodknives just happened to kill the right women.

 

No, they were Mesaana suspects because they disapeared, but despite that they didn't not fit any of the criteria so Egwene doesn't think they are Mesaana. Hence people now think they were killed by the Bloodknives--but if so they weren't killed because they were thought of as Mesaana, they were thought of as Mesaana because they were killed. See the difference?

 

I will answer this with a question of my own. Why would you think that Mesaana and the Bloodknives would even be working together?

 

That'd possibly be because I suggested it. We have murders occuring that match the MO of the Bloodknives, and then we have Egwene's dream that Mesaana will be murdering sisters. So I asked the question, does that mean we'll have two sets of murders happening, or is Mesaana in some way responsible for the Bloodknives.

 

I don't necessarily think that she is connected, I was questioning it as a way of clarifying the two seperate issues. Is Gawyn right, or is Egwene? Bloodknife or Mesaana, or both. Working seperately, or together? That's the full scope of the mystery at this point.

 

Currently, I'm the only moderator for this forum. So I'm the only one who you need to pay attention to.

 

Though I'm up to chapter 10, so you'll probably see me in this thread, and the one for through chapter ten.

[jdbond]

jdbond, bscuga, just to clarify for you, this is a discussion board, not a 'demand spoilers' board. If people choose not to share with you, you are required to accept it. Demands will be treated as a form of rudeness, as will indignation over refusals.

 

If it helps, think of it this way--this board is for people who have read the book to discuss it with each other. You are permitted in to read what they are talking about, and if you are polite, to ask questions--which they can refuse to answer. If you are looking for a plot summary, go elsewhere. That is not the purpose of this board.

 

 

 

I am yet to post a "what happens then, tell me Luckers" post. You post sounds rather hostile.

[Luckers]

I'm kind of laying out the law here, it's bound to sound hostile. I will clarify this is not specifically for you but for the board as a whole. No more demands. And no more passive aggressive hostility over not getting enough spoilers. This board is not for the revelation of spoilers, its for the discussion of them. Treat it as such.

[bscuga]

I can live with the dreamspike post being deleted as it was not in chapters 1-5. FYI...RAFOs are a form of rudeness on a spoiler board. If that is going to be the answer, just don't reply. Also, I don't think my post was a demand.

[Luckers]

Sorry, not taking any more discussion on the subject. If you don't like our rules you are welcome to go elsewhere.

 

Any further posts on this issue will be summarily removed.

[Luckers]

Not from either side, though thank you csarmi.

 

Seriously, this thread is for discussing the book, not debating out policies. Let it go.

[csarmi]

Alright. Well, I don't have the book yet, so I couldn't read chapters 3-5 yet, but I wouldn't mind some mild spoilers on it. For example, which PoV's do we get? What does Rand tell Egwene, Does he get to feel her anger?

 

I WOULD mind, however, spoilers from later chapters :)