Discuss Prologue Through Chapter 45

[AutomatedTeller]

I honestly don't get the "anti-Egwene" sentiment. I think she's an incredible character, maybe the most admirable one in the series, probably the one with the most personal growth, and probably the best leader the Light has, at least until Rand got with the program.

 

I mean - she's what... 20? 22? In something like 6 months, she has managed to re-unite the White Tower, fight off the Seanchan, purge the Black Ajah, create in herself an actual leader for the Aes Sedai, and destroy a forsaken... all while being taken as a puppet Amyrlin in the place that created the Game of Houses. So she's scared about Rand - who the hell WOULDN'T be?

 

I wish she'd reacted differently, tried to find out from Nynaeve what he meant - but I think her reaction makes a lot of sense.

[cornichon]

I can't stand Egwene. I think she's a sanctimonious know-it-all.

 

That said, I'm so disappointed with this conversation. I've been reading 5 chapters at a time and coming on here to see some discussion and noticed that the conversation for the section through Ch. 45 was by far the largest of the broken-up sections. I assumed that the Ghenjei chapter happened between 40 and 45, but lo and behold, this whole conversation related back to something that happened in Chapter 3! Fah!

[Duskfire]

I honestly don't get the "anti-Egwene" sentiment. I think she's an incredible character, maybe the most admirable one in the series, probably the one with the most personal growth, and probably the best leader the Light has, at least until Rand got with the program.

 

I mean - she's what... 20? 22? In something like 6 months, she has managed to re-unite the White Tower, fight off the Seanchan, purge the Black Ajah, create in herself an actual leader for the Aes Sedai, and destroy a forsaken... all while being taken as a puppet Amyrlin in the place that created the Game of Houses. So she's scared about Rand - who the hell WOULDN'T be?

 

I wish she'd reacted differently, tried to find out from Nynaeve what he meant - but I think her reaction makes a lot of sense.

 

Perrin is a far better leader then Egwene. I agree with you she is a good leader, but she isn't the second best after Rand. heck, I dont think Rand is even that great a leader. Perrin is the best leader on the side of Light - when he is in his element, there is no one better.

[autobus]

I can't stand Egwene. I think she's a sanctimonious know-it-all.

 

That said, I'm so disappointed with this conversation. I've been reading 5 chapters at a time and coming on here to see some discussion and noticed that the conversation for the section through Ch. 45 was by far the largest of the broken-up sections. I assumed that the Ghenjei chapter happened between 40 and 45, but lo and behold, this whole conversation related back to something that happened in Chapter 3! Fah!

 

Very funny. I was so fired up for this section because of the thread length. Would have been happier with 6 pages of easing the badger jokes.

[Jillain Sanche]

I agree with the comments to date in (an) earlier post(s) by Dennis (Chang). Thank you!

 

At this point I am not so sure about the allegations that Herid Fel was under compulsion? Or that Min Farshaw's reading of his books is a set up?

I remain skeptical of such a conclusion.

Min is the only one doing any research on the problem of how to reseal the Bore (unless Loial shows up with some ancient tract yet and who knows?)

Certainly as far as we know from the text, no one in the White Tower is "hitting the books" to determine what might be the best plan of action.

 

I honestly don't get the "anti-Egwene" sentiment. I think she's an incredible character, maybe the most admirable one in the series, probably the one with the most personal growth, and probably the best leader the Light has, at least until Rand got with the program.

 

I mean - she's what... 20? 22? In something like 6 months, she has managed to re-unite the White Tower, fight off the Seanchan, purge the Black Ajah, create in herself an actual leader for the Aes Sedai, and destroy a forsaken... all while being taken as a puppet Amyrlin in the place that created the Game of Houses. So she's scared about Rand - who the hell WOULDN'T be?

 

I wish she'd reacted differently, tried to find out from Nynaeve what he meant - but I think her reaction makes a lot of sense.

 

And I agree with Automated Teller above. Although her reaction to Rand exasperated me, it is entirely in line with her development so far. She does not have all the information; she has been thoroughly involved with the problems of the White Tower to the exclusion of all else, except where that focus overlaps with fighting the Forsaken. There is incredible weight on her shoulders in addition to ongoing security and safety issues.

 

She received Rand before the entire Hall, in any event, which meant that there would have been limits to the extent of their discussion in an offical audience. Her problem, not Rand's. He was amazingly calm even in the face of his sanity being questioned.

 

On a completely separate note, a good handful of characters who have grown up over the course of the series have in this book had POVs concerning the lessons learned from their parents. Elayne has for awhile put such lessons into practical use. Morgase just gave Galad a new one which he is still absorbing. Faile had a great POV about the lessons of her mother now being so important but that she had previously rejected to some extent. Rand of course had his great revelation at the end of TGS during which it was the question Tam had just asked him which he used to reset his perspective from despair to hope. And Perrin is always on about the lessons of his apprenticeship from his master blacksmith in the Two Rivers.

[Bob T Dwarf]

And I agree with Automated Teller above. Although her reaction to Rand exasperated me, it is entirely in line with her development so far. She does not have all the information; she has been thoroughly involved with the problems of the White Tower to the exclusion of all else, except where that focus overlaps with fighting the Forsaken. There is incredible weight on her shoulders in addition to ongoing security and safety issues.

 

What exasperates us is her knee-jerk, "Dats CRAZY! Quit smoking that stuff!"

 

She could have said something along the lines of, "I don't unnerstand. Could you esplain that a leetle more fully, Lucy?" After all, Lucy does have some 'splainin' to do.

 

No attempt to open a dialogue. No attempt to acquire understanding. Just an automatic, "I know best and you WILL NOT do this! Be a good boy. Don't make Mama spank." Even though she's been too busy with other things to give the problem any real thought.

 

It's insulting, demeaning, and condescending.

 

Plus, she's just plain wrong.

[Rand Skywalker]

And I agree with Automated Teller above. Although her reaction to Rand exasperated me, it is entirely in line with her development so far. She does not have all the information; she has been thoroughly involved with the problems of the White Tower to the exclusion of all else, except where that focus overlaps with fighting the Forsaken. There is incredible weight on her shoulders in addition to ongoing security and safety issues.

 

What exasperates us is her knee-jerk, "Dats CRAZY! Quit smoking that stuff!"

 

She could have said something along the lines of, "I don't unnerstand. Could you esplain that a leetle more fully, Lucy?" After all, Lucy does have some 'splainin' to do.

 

No attempt to open a dialogue. No attempt to acquire understanding. Just an automatic, "I know best and you WILL NOT do this! Be a good boy. Don't make Mama spank." Even though she's been too busy with other things to give the problem any real thought.

 

It's insulting, demeaning, and condescending.

 

Plus, she's just plain wrong.

 

I agree.

 

Egwene has been acting like a jerk to Rand since TGH, in my opinion, and especially since he schooled both her and Elayne in TSR (a favorite scene of mine). She should also know that the seals are breaking of their own accord and the others are fragile. If she doesn't like Rand's plan she would have to be able to give an alternative or shut up.

[Jillain Sanche]

Yep, she was thoroughly exasperating and insufferable, and makes you want to tear your hair out at the lack of certain questions being asked.

(Which symptoms are really a typical phase in some people's lives, though not everyone's, that some people who are so insufferable might outgrow if they live long enough and learn while so doing--therefore, totally intentional in the storytelling)

 

Yet, maybe Rand knew she would react that way and by the time they meet on the Field of what was it, Mellilor? it might be that her own perspective will be shifting.

 

It leaves some questions to be asked beyond our initial exasperation with her!

[Rand Skywalker]

 

Yet, maybe Rand knew she would react that way and by the time they meet on the Field of what was it, Mellilor?

 

I had this same thought, that Rand would be counting on her resistance to his plan. Sneaky bugger!

[Jillain Sanche]

The character I have been not as happy with is Elayne and her attitude toward Perrin and the Two Rivers. Mat deals well with her as he calls her on her krap, though she only wants to use him.

But she really has no understanding at all of the Two Rivers, despite all of her thinking she takes care of "her people" and all that. And I wonder if it is a bit of Robert Jordan inserting some small allegorical reference to "power corrupts." Miss "High and Mighty Pain in the Backside" indeed.

[dalewb]

2) Breaking the seals will do nothing. May be it will boost SH's power, that's all. DO will not get free. Seal only patched the bore, not the whole prison of DO. We know for fact that bore was open for 100 year during AOL. What was the end result? Nothing. No different that what it is now. I am perplexed by the idea that breaking the seal will some how freak DO!?

 

I don't believe this is true. From my reading the WOT Encyclopedia and TOM, it becomes apparent that the Shadow became an unstoppable force in the world. The Aes Sedai grew desperate and devised two plans and broke into two camps around those plans, neither side willing to help the other. Their desperation is an indication of just how powerful the shadow became near the end of the War of Power. And why was it so powerful? Because the bore had been exposed for so long. The DO didn't "escape" and "walk the earth," but it was much much worse than when the prison was sealed. Entire cities wiped out, entire populations educated in the glories of the DO or tortured, the forces of the light steadily diminishing... The Aes Sedai knew that if they didn't get that prison sealed up, it'd be curtains for them. And everyone else.

 

Still, breaking the seals, if done on Rand's time table, shouldn't be all that bad (over the short term) assuming he's able to expeditiously and correctly seal the bore. Then again, it might have the same effect as the initial boring had - a massive explosion and releasing of DO energy - kind of like the meltdown of Chernobyl.

 

Sorry if this point was already covered, I gave up reading after page 6.

Off topic, but I was curious why the book was named TOM when the towers are only mentioned in passing in the prologue /scratches head in confusion/