Discuss The Full Book

[nolirion]

Aviendha's trip through the columns was SHATTERING. I LOOOOOVED it.

What Aviendha saw in this chapter was the single most horrible outcome of the WoT series I've ever imagined. Seanchan ruling the world with their damane... better The Dark One put it all to an end. I really, REALLY hope she could change that.

I agree .

[Luckystrike]

When I read TGS I really liked it. It was a good read, and with interesting plots.

 

When I picked up ToM I was excited to begin to read, and when I was done reading my heart was pumping extremely. I was totally amazed by this book.

The Tower of Genjei-part; I haven't felt that kind of excitement since The Great Hunt, when everybody is in Falme. It wasn't only Perrin coming back as the badass he were, but also the series! Now, I have liked the way the series changed in those long plots and political intrigues; I have enjoyed that. But this kicked me back to Great Hunt and the adrenaline of those book!

 

Egwene is good in this book; she's not the girl who says she's the real Amyrlin, she now IS the Amyrlin. Very much Aes Sedai-politics in her PoV, but much more likeable.

 

Lan's PoV is all about him going to Malkier. It doesn't happen so much, but neither does he have much screentime. I think the scene where he finally calls himself king, feels kind of rushed.

 

Ituralde! This maybe has to be the best mini-subplot I have ever read! It starts with a bang and keeps on banging to the end. I mean when you have it starting like, and I now qoute; "Burn me, where are those archers!" Rodel Ituralde climbed up to the top of the hillside. "I wanted them formed up on the forward towers and hour ago to relieve the crossbowmen!" "

It can't get more badass than that. I think it was masterly written, BS did this really nice! You're thrown into the fight directly and stay there with them. One of ToM great sections!

 

The Rand part was interesting. Rand was very interesting. When I got through a 3/4 of the book, and realised Lews Therin wasn't there! Then came the chapter with Rand talking like he was both Lews Therin and Rand.

All the Hippie/jesus-talk about Rand before the book was realised vanished. He's actually more badass now than he was before.

 

But ToM was all about Mat and Perrin, and my god that was WoT old-school! Man... They were both badasses.

Perrin fighting Slayer was great. And the Perrin vs Galad things was incredible! Then we have the grand ending with the hammer!

 

Mat; always funny and always cool. The Tower of Genjei-part was the best thing and the highlight of ToM, without a doubt. It made the book go from amazing to Oh-my-f'cking-god-this-book-is-epic. :D

 

Okey, this was a bad written review, but it actually were my feeling about this book because I have not anybody to talk to in real life.

 

Towers of Midnight is my favourite book.

[Darth Krewl]

What Aviendha saw in this chapter was the single most horrible outcome of the WoT series I've ever imagined. Seanchan ruling the world with their damane... better The Dark One put it all to an end. I really, REALLY hope she could change that.

 

You seem to forget that it was Aviendha's and Rand's descendants who were to blame for that outcome. They're the ones who broke the "Dragon's Peace" and provoked the Seanchan into war. So, if this is what will happen to the Aiel if/when the Last Battle is won by the Light, they'd have only themselves to blame.

 

On the other hand, Aviendha's visions clearly indicate that the Seanchan's arsenal featured way more than Damane. They also came into possession of Mat's cannons (dragons) and developed highly sophisticated weaponry through the years. To me, that's the interesting part. How did they come across such technology...

[stoper]

What Aviendha saw in this chapter was the single most horrible outcome of the WoT series I've ever imagined. Seanchan ruling the world with their damane... better The Dark One put it all to an end. I really, REALLY hope she could change that.

 

You seem to forget that it was Aviendha's and Rand's descendants who were to blame for that outcome. They're the ones who broke the "Dragon's Peace" and provoked the Seanchan into war. So, if this is what will happen to the Aiel if/when the Last Battle is won by the Light, they'd have only themselves to blame.

 

On the other hand, Aviendha's visions clearly indicate that the Seanchan's arsenal featured way more than Damane. They also came into possession of Mat's cannons (dragons) and developed highly sophisticated weaponry through the years. To me, that's the interesting part. How did they come across such technology...

I'm not blaming anyone. Just saying that I would hate to see my favorite book end in such bad way.

 

Though I don't think the Aiel are the only one to blame in that scenario. In it the Seanchan are still using their damane practice. You cannot realy blame anyone for wanting to put that to an end.

You cannnot blame England for braking the peace against Germany during the World War II.

[Darth Krewl]

I'm not blaming anyone. Just saying that I would hate to see my favorite book end in such bad way.

 

Though I don't think the Aiel are the only one to blame in that scenario. In it the Seanchan are still using their damane practice. You cannot realy blame anyone for wanting to put that to an end.

You cannnot blame England for braking the peace against Germany during the World War II.

 

Neither am I blaming anyone. I'm just saying that Rand's and Aviendha's kids and grandkids have no one to blame for the whole mess but themselves. They did provoke the Seanchan and the granddaughter went as far as to fabricate an elaborate attempt at the life of her half-sister (Elayne's granddaughter) to get Andor into the war.

 

As for the Damane, I've already had a similar discussion a few pages back on this very thread. I would never justify slavery in any way, shape or form, of course, and I certainly don't approve of what the Seanchan do. But I did say that, in order for the WoT world to go back to the state of democracy, freedom and justice for all that it seems to have been during the AoL (before the drilling of the Bore, of course) the people of the Randland also have to change many of their ways; especially the Aes Sedai. And, IMO, Aviendha's vision just comes to prove that this is true. Because, if these people don't give up on their savage, Inquisition-like medieval ways, they're all doomed even if the DO is defeated in Tarmon Gai'don.

[didymos]

You cannnot blame England for braking the peace against Germany during the World War II.

 

Um, why would you do that in the first place? Germany's the one that actually started the war by invading Poland and refusing to go home.

[Crael123]

I hope to see the White Tower razed to the ground and then the scattered remains of the aes sedai see their stupidity and form a joint tower with Logain. And then Mat blows the Horn and Hawking tells the seanchan to back up and to make peace and they do so. This would be awesome if that happend.

[nolirion]

I'm not blaming anyone. Just saying that I would hate to see my favorite book end in such bad way.

 

Though I don't think the Aiel are the only one to blame in that scenario. In it the Seanchan are still using their damane practice. You cannot realy blame anyone for wanting to put that to an end.

You cannnot blame England for braking the peace against Germany during the World War II.

 

Neither am I blaming anyone. I'm just saying that Rand's and Aviendha's kids and grandkids have no one to blame for the whole mess but themselves. They did provoke the Seanchan and the granddaughter went as far as to fabricate an elaborate attempt at the life of her half-sister (Elayne's granddaughter) to get Andor into the war.

 

As for the Damane, I've already had a similar discussion a few pages back on this very thread. I would never justify slavery in any way, shape or form, of course, and I certainly don't approve of what the Seanchan do. But I did say that, in order for the WoT world to go back to the state of democracy, freedom and justice for all that it seems to have been during the AoL (before the drilling of the Bore, of course) the people of the Randland also have to change many of their ways; especially the Aes Sedai. And, IMO, Aviendha's vision just comes to prove that this is true. Because, if these people don't give up on their savage, Inquisition-like medieval ways, they're all doomed even if the DO is defeated in Tarmon Gai'don.

Democracy does not mean freedom and justice for all .

You are a bit naive in your thinking , they weren't particularly right to do as they did yet Seanchan did plan to break that peace (they where preparing for it)

[Jack Shaftoe]

You are a bit naive in your thinking , they weren't particularly right to do as they did yet Seanchan did plan to break that peace (they where preparing for it)

 

The Seanchan had a contingency plan. This doesn't mean anything other than them being prepared for every eventuality. Every major power has plans what to do when attacked, that doesn't mean they are itching for war for sure.

[didymos]

You are a bit naive in your thinking , they weren't particularly right to do as they did yet Seanchan did plan to break that peace (they where preparing for it)

 

Nope. The Queen of Andor was lied to. That was a just a plan. There were no preparations. The future Aiel conveniently left that part out, because they just assumed the Seanchan couldn't be trusted and would "obviously" attack eventually. Of course, the Seanchan didn't start the war in the first place, so you can see what that opinion is worth.

[Darth Krewl]

Democracy does not mean freedom and justice for all .

You are a bit naive in your thinking , they weren't particularly right to do as they did yet Seanchan did plan to break that peace (they where preparing for it)

 

Well, I see that 2 people have already replied to your post, nolirion, both clearly stating thoughts that I completely agree with. Still, you did address me personally, so I will reply.

 

A state of democracy (in theory) is supposed to provide freedom and justice for all. It has certainly not worked that way in real life. But, since I was referring to the Age of Legends in the series, where society had clearly become perfect utopia, it would seem all but clear to me that the entire population of the world enjoyed such rights (for that's what freedom, liberty and justice are. Inalienable human rights. Not privileges reserved for some, only).

 

As for my naivete concerning the Seanchan, as fate would have it, I just read Aviendha's chapters last night. And I can assure you that they're still fresh on my mind. At no moment did I read that the Seanchan were planning to break the Dragon's Peace. All that the Seanchan had in place were countermeasures for a potential strike on them, which I would certainly consider, given the nature of my enemies, as clearly proven by Aviendha's visions. So, with all due respect, I believe that it is you who might have misconstrued the whole thing.

[stoper]

You cannot possibly think the Seanchan wouldn't brake the peace at some point. It's obvious these guys are twisted and blind to the point of insanity.

 

Hell of a democracy you're talking where one of the nations is treating all channelers like a dogs.

 

Um, why would you do that in the first place? Germany's the one that actually started the war by invading Poland and refusing to go home.

But they weren't attacking England (as far as I know).

Sometime when you see an injustice you have the right to involve yourself to stop it. That's what I'm saying.

[Cyf]

You cannot possibly think the Seanchan wouldn't brake the peace at some point. It's obvious these guys are twisted and blind to the point of insanity.

 

You're making assumptions based on personal bias. There is no evidence they were thinking of breaking the Dragon's Peace, and in fact the thoughts of the Aiel themselves said they weren't. Your opinion is trumped by what's actually said in the series.

 

Are the Seanchan bad? Certainly. But their society has many good aspects as well. People are far too prone to black and white judgements and to base their judgements on modern beliefs. Oddly, they never extend these judgements to others. Shouldn't we be saying how evil Andor is for being a monarchy? :) But we don't.

[Duskfire]

Seanchan may be a bit twisted, but they are also honorable. I have no idea whether they were going to break the Dragon Peace or not - its a matter of opinion really. But the Seanchan do have a sense of honor. Especially with how they treat others. Granted channelers are in trouble, but everyday people are left alone and in some cases - such as Beslan - are installed as one into the society.

[stoper]

You're making assumptions based on personal bias. There is no evidence they were thinking of breaking the Dragon's Peace, and in fact the thoughts of the Aiel themselves said they weren't. Your opinion is trumped by what's actually said in the series.

Personal bias?

As far as I can remember (and please, correct me if I'm wrong), but the Seanchan were inviding "Randland". They where saying they're there to take what's rightfully theirs. High blood and stuffs. All must kneel before the Empress. All channelers are dangerous.

Yeah, that sounds really peaceful to me.

 

And something else from Aviendha's visions:

"How long can we wait, knowing that they have Aiel women captive with those bracelets of theirs?"

"I say that we must reclaim out own who are held but the Seanchan."

Would you keep the peace with your neighbour knowing that he's turning your own sister to a mindless tool? Treating her worse than you treat you own dog?

 

I'm not saying the Aiel have no fault. The visions are obviously ment to show to Aviendha that she must help her people change their way of thinking.

[Darth Krewl]

You cannot possibly think the Seanchan wouldn't brake the peace at some point. It's obvious these guys are twisted and blind to the point of insanity.

 

Hell of a democracy you're talking where one of the nations is treating all channelers like a dogs.

 

Actually, what you're saying about the Seanchan is clearly based on personal opinion. How you feel about them mirrors how I feel about the Aes Sedai of the Third Age for instance. I can't stand them and, prior to the cleansing, I was certain that they'd launch an en masse attack on the Black Tower. Still, that doesn't mean that I expected the Asha'man to launch a preemptive strike at Tar Valon based on my PERSONAL ASSUMPTION and FEELINGS on the matter.

 

The democracy I spoke of (and I think that's pretty clear) is the state that existed during the Age of Legends. At no point have I mentioned that I like, support or approve of Seanchan ways. Much less, that I think them a democracy. Where do you get that from my words? The Seanchan are an empire. No empire is a democratic state, of course.

 

As for treating channelers like dogs, I guess it's okay for Aes Sedai to treat their male counterparts that way, right? Even now that the taint's been removed, they still look at them as something less than human. The White Tower is worse than the Seanchan empire in that sense.

 

You seem to be conveniently forgetting all about the Aiel's concept of Ji'e'toh; something their nation upholds above all things. No Aiel who upholds Ji'e'toh would even contemplate provoking their enemies through lies and slander because there is NO honor in that. By doing so, Aviendha's descendants generated HUGE 'toh to themselves.

 

As for the Seanchan, say what you will about them. But one thing they have in common with Aiel is that they take honor very seriously. And when they promise something, they stick to their word. So, no. I don't believe they would've broken the peace, lest they were provoked. Like they were.

 

Well, just read the comments above mine, stoper. We all seem to agree on this. So, please, don't twist my words only because you happen to hate the Seanchan so much.

[Jack Shaftoe]

But they weren't attacking England (as far as I know).

Sometime when you see an injustice you have the right to involve yourself to stop it. That's what I'm saying.

 

Read some history. Britain and France had given guarantees to Poland, the Nazis attacked Poland, so international law gave full right to Poland's allies to intervene. It's not as if they invaded Germany because of the death camps or something like that.

 

As far as I can remember (and please, correct me if I'm wrong), but the Seanchan were inviding "Randland". They where saying they're there to take what's rightfully theirs. High blood and stuffs. All must kneel before the Empress. All channelers are dangerous.

Yeah, that sounds really peaceful to me.

 

They claim they are merely reclaiming the lands Hawkwing once ruled. Misguided, sure, but they seem to be sticking to the letter of the law the way they understand it, so I don't see them breaking a peace treaty just like that.

[stoper]

You cannot seriously compare AS's paranoia and fear for male channelers and Seanchan's damane. AS have all the reasons to fear male channelers... no, thay have one reason only - they all gone mad pretty quick and in their madnes can cause the dead of the people around them. It's not because they are men, it's not because they're evil, it's because of the taint. Now that it's gone, they're clearly showing signs of accepting them.

The Seanchan don't fear the power of the channelers, they want to use it.

 

The democracy I spoke of (and I think that's pretty clear) is the state that existed during the Age of Legends. At no point have I mentioned that I like, support or approve of Seanchan ways. Much less, that I think them a democracy. Where do you get that from my words? The Seanchan are an empire. No empire is a democratic state, of course.

You were talking about peace with a nation that keep your sister as a mindless husk.

That's why I'm saying it's not only Aiel's fault, because I would have done the same thing.

 

And besides, I don't think Rand would agree to fight the last battle with a woman on a dog leash on his side.

 

p.s.

Read some history. Britain and France had given guarantees to Poland, the Nazis attacked Poland, so international law gave full right to Poland's allies to intervene. It's not as if they invaded Germany because of the death camps or something like that.

They've attacked because they knew who's next on Hitler's list.

If you hate black people, you clear your house of them. Then you decide you should do the same on the street, then the town...

Isn't that why the war against Iraq was. To "help" these people via removing the bad guy Sadamm, whether they want it or not.

 

As far as I can remember (and please, correct me if I'm wrong), but the Seanchan were inviding "Randland". They where saying they're there to take what's rightfully theirs. High blood and stuffs. All must kneel before the Empress. All channelers are dangerous.

Yeah, that sounds really peaceful to me.

They claim they are merely reclaiming the lands Hawkwing once ruled. Misguided, sure, but they seem to be sticking to the letter of the law the way they understand it, so I don't see them breaking a peace treaty just like that.

The White Tower? Was that part of Halkwing's empire as well?

[Jack Shaftoe]

They've attacked because they knew who's next on Hitler's list.

If you hate black people, you clear your house of them. Then you decide you should do the same on the street, then the town...

Isn't that why the war against Iraq was. To "help" these people via removing the bad guy Sadamm, whether they want it or not.

 

Even with Iraq, the excuse that Saddam had WMD had to be used. As for WW II, there is a world of difference between a preemeptive strike and just answering the call for help of an ally of yours that's already been attacked.

 

The White Tower? Was that part of Halkwing's empire as well?

 

I am sure the Seanchan consider it a part of Hawkwing's empire. Since he felt justified to siege it he must have had a perfectly good reason. Life can be simple if you worship your leaders as they do. :) But if Rand can convince them to commit to a peace deal, I don't see them breaking it easily.

[Darth Krewl]

You cannot seriously compare AS's paranoia and fear for male channelers and Seanchan's damane. AS have all the reasons to fear male channelers... no, thay have one reason only - they all gone mad pretty quick and in their madnes can cause the dead of the people around them. It's not because they are men, it's not because they're evil, it's because of the taint. Now that it's gone, they're clearly showing signs of accepting them.

The Seanchan don't fear the power of the channelers, they want to use it.

 

Um, okay...so, you're saying that the right way to deal with dangerous madness is by hunting down mad people, as if they were wild animals and killing them mercilessly and w/o pity? Because, IDK if you know this, but there are ways to deal with madness; much more humane options than what the Aes Sedai of the Third Age chose (like cleansing the taint, for instance. As Rand did). And I don't see them accepting the male channelers as their equals. The fact that they can't do anything about Rand and the Black Tower, doesn't mean that they trust them or see them as equals. Not yet, anyways.

 

You were talking about peace with a nation that keep your sister as a mindless husk.

That's why I'm saying it's not only Aiel's fault, because I would have done the same thing.

 

Here you go again, twisting my words. I was talking about democracy, justice and freedom in the Age of Legends. I never talked about peace among any nations. And again, seems like you're speaking based on your personal feelings over the Seanchan and not from an unbiased, objective POV, like I have done.

 

In fact, here's my exact words. Let's see where it says anything about me calling for peace with a nation who "keeps my sister as a mindless husk":

 

The democracy I spoke of (and I think that's pretty clear) is the state that existed during the Age of Legends. At no point have I mentioned that I like, support or approve of Seanchan ways. Much less, that I think them a democracy. Where do you get that from my words? The Seanchan are an empire. No empire is a democratic state, of course.

 

I rest my case.

 

And besides, I don't think Rand would agree to fight the last battle with a woman on a dog leash on his side.

 

LOL! When did I say otherwise? When have I said that I condone, much less support, the enslaving ways of the Seanchan? And, when did I mention Rand?

 

Listen, instead of misconstruing other people's opinions (aside of trying to impose your views on them, only because you happen to disagree with them) I suggest you try to figure out why Rand would have let the Seanchan keep their very reproachable and unforgivable enslaving ways, when he set his Peace of the Dragon on the entire Randland, after the Last Battle in Aviendha's visions. Because, though there's nothing in said visions to indicate that Rand fought alongside Damane or not, it would seem clear that he didn't do anything to free those poor women, either.

[stoper]

The White Tower? Was that part of Halkwing's empire as well?

I am sure the Seanchan consider it a part of Hawkwing's empire. Since he felt justified to siege it he must have had a perfectly good reason. Life can be simple if you worship your leaders as they do. :) But if Rand can convince them to commit to a peace deal, I don't see them breaking it easily.

You don't see them, but that's what the chapter says:

"They are inviders who forced him to bow to their Empress. She is considered above him. They will not keep promises they made to an inferior."

I just agree.

 

You cannot seriously compare AS's paranoia and fear for male channelers and Seanchan's damane.

Um, okay...so, you're saying that the right way to deal with dangerous madness is by hunting down mad people, as if they were wild animals and killing them mercilessly and w/o pity? Because, IDK if you know this, but there are ways to deal with madness; much more humane options than what the Aes Sedai of the Third Age chose (like cleansing the taint, for instance. As Rand did). And I don't see them accepting the male channelers as their equals. The fact that they can't do anything about Rand and the Black Tower, doesn't mean that they trust them or see them as equals. Not yet, anyways.

I just can't see any other way of dealing with them. They can't cure them, they can't send them to some remote place to die alone. They can only cut them from the OP or kill them. If you have any idea, feel free to share.

AS cleansing Saidin is a little bit too much, don't you think? Rand is Rand, I don't think some random half-mad man with an AS could have done it.

 

You were talking about peace with a nation that keep your sister as a mindless husk.

That's why I'm saying it's not only Aiel's fault, because I would have done the same thing.

Here you go again, twisting my words. I was talking about democracy, justice and freedom in the Age of Legends. I never talked about peace among any nations. And again, seems like you're speaking based on your personal feelings over the Seanchan and not from an unbiased, objective POV, like I have done.

You were giving all the blame to the Aiel:

You seem to forget that it was Aviendha's and Rand's descendants who were to blame for that outcome. They're the ones who broke the "Dragon's Peace" and provoked the Seanchan into war. So, if this is what will happen to the Aiel if/when the Last Battle is won by the Light, they'd have only themselves to blame.

I'm just showing you, why I think the blame is not only theirs.

 

And besides, I don't think Rand would agree to fight the last battle with a woman on a dog leash on his side.

 

LOL! When did I say otherwise? When have I said that I condone, much less support, the enslaving ways of the Seanchan? And, when did I mention Rand?

 

Listen, instead of misconstruing other people's opinions (aside of trying to impose your views on them, only because you happen to disagree with them) I suggest you try to figure out why Rand would have let the Seanchan keep their very reproachable and unforgivable enslaving ways, when he set his Peace of the Dragon on the entire Randland, after the Last Battle in Aviendha's visions. Because, though there's nothing in said visions to indicate that Rand fought alongside Damane or not, it would seem clear that he didn't do anything to free those poor women, either.

I'm just mentioning my opinion. I'm not saying you've said it.

And I don't know why would he do such thig. I think the whole vision was just a warning for the Aiel.

 

p.s.

No hard feelings, mate. If you don't want to argue with me, just ignore me.

[Jack Shaftoe]

"They are inviders who forced him to bow to their Empress. She is considered above him. They will not keep promises they made to an inferior."

 

This is from the point of view of the Aiel, I presume? Why should it be relevant again? They have an agenda against the Seanchan, of course they will think so. Might as well claim all Aes Sedai are witches because the Whitecloaks think so.

[Darth Krewl]

I just can't see any other way of dealing with them. They can't cure them, they can't send them to some remote place to die alone. They can only cut them from the OP or kill them. If you have any idea, feel free to share.

AS cleansing Saidin is a little bit too much, don't you think? Rand is Rand, I don't think some random half-mad man with an AS could have done it.

 

Okay, I do admit that wishing for neuron-psychiatric therapy and medication to deal with madness in a medieval-like setting (such as the Randland of the Third Age) would be completely unrealistic. But, as someone who has done creative work all his life, I look at the 5 Powers as musical notes and weaves as the way to interpret and create; the canvas and the paint; the sheet and the pen. In other words, get creative, damn it lol!

 

The mere fact that Aes Sedai of the Third Age cling so rigidly to what they've been taught, without ever trying to innovate and come up with new, creative weaves (till the appearance of the supergirls) shows me just how backwards they are. To quote Yoda, "always with you, it cannot be done", and in this case, no Aes Sedai would've believed that cleansing the taint was possible. So, they simply didn't try. But that doesn't mean it was impossible, as Rand and Nynaeve clearly demonstrated.

 

Now, I'm not proposing that the Aes Sedai try to use the Choedan Kal to cleanse Saidin. All I'm saying is that, if they had been willing to get innovative and creative, they could've come up with new weaves that allowed them to deal with crazed male channelers in much more merciful ways. IDK, some permanent shield, reinforced with some ter'angreal or something. IMO, it should be clear that every single achievement attained by the Aes Sedai from the Age of Legends was achieved through creative intuition, just like this. But, hey, I'm only coming up w/this on the fly. These women had 3000 YEARS to find a good, merciful and humane option! I'm sure they would've come up with something, had they tried.

 

You were giving all the blame to the Aiel:

You seem to forget that it was Aviendha's and Rand's descendants who were to blame for that outcome. They're the ones who broke the "Dragon's Peace" and provoked the Seanchan into war. So, if this is what will happen to the Aiel if/when the Last Battle is won by the Light, they'd have only themselves to blame.

I'm just showing you, why I think the blame is not only theirs.

 

Yes, I do blame the Aiel for that. Because what Aviendha's descendants did was cling to an old grudge in order to cause a war. At no point did I read that they were doing it to free the enslaved damane. They did it because they had an old score to settle with the Seanchan. And, IMO, in Aiel terms that's no Ji of any kind and all the Toh in the world. So, of course I find they're the only ones to blame for the sad, disturbing fate awaiting them in Aviendha's vision.

 

I'm just mentioning my opinion. I'm not saying you've said it.

And I don't know why would he do such thig. I think the whole vision was just a warning for the Aiel.

 

As for Rand fighting alongside Damane, well, keep in mind that in the visions, it is mentioned that the Dragon did bend knee to the Crystal Throne. And if he did, that means Rand had to yield to their ways and authority. So, based on these terrifying visions ('cause I've never said they're not terrible), it would be pretty safe to assume that Rand would have fought alongside Damane. To gather more clout in a desperate attempt to beat the Dark One or something along those lines. But if he did bend knee, then he would be deferring to Tuon and the Seanchan.

 

Now, also keep in mind that prophecies in the WoT are just guidelines for what the future may bring. But nothing's etched in stone and the future can be changed. So, yeah, I also believe Aviendha's visions were just a warning. We've finally found some common ground here.

[Danvighar]

All I'm saying is that, if they had been willing to get innovative and creative, they could've come up with new weaves that allowed them to deal with crazed male channelers in much more merciful ways. IDK, some permanent shield, reinforced with some ter'angreal or something. IMO, it should be clear that every single achievement attained by the Aes Sedai from the Age of Legends was achieved through creative intuition, just like this. But, hey, I'm only coming up w/this on the fly. These women had 3000 YEARS to find a good, merciful and humane option! I'm sure they would've come up with something, had they tried.

 

Personal opinion - I don't know that anyone's ever even asked the question, let alone gotten a definitive answer - I think the Warder Bond was invented by someone attempting to 1) give Gentled men "something to live for" so they don't fall into depression and suicide/give up, and perhaps 2) find some way to set up a link between men and women while subverting the rules of a 1-to-1 link so that women could lead. If they were trying to achieve #2, they failed... but they might have succeeded at #1, and over 2500 years everyone forgot about the original intent.

[David Selig]

Now, I'm not proposing that the Aes Sedai try to use the Choedan Kal to cleanse Saidin. All I'm saying is that, if they had been willing to get innovative and creative, they could've come up with new weaves that allowed them to deal with crazed male channelers in much more merciful ways. IDK, some permanent shield, reinforced with some ter'angreal or something. IMO,

The effect of a permanent shield is the same as gentling, the male channellers will lose the will to live since they can't touch the Source. Unless you mean something like Asmodean's case, where the shield allows for a minimal strength channelling, but this still will lead to getting insane, since it doesn't seem to be much of a correlation between the amount of tainted saidin someone has channelled and how long he can stay sane. Rand remained mostly sane for years channelling a lot, including twice vast amounts with Choedan Kal. Some of the Asha'man went crazy while still in training.

 

The Seanchan were also partly to blame for breaking the Dragon's Peace. Keeping prisoners of war as slaves and repeating refusing all kinds of offers for a deal to release them is a serious reason to break the peace pact. This was the main reason for the Aiel to start the war, and it's hard to blame them much.

 

ToM, Ch. 49

"How long can we wait," Alalved said, "knowing that they have Aiel women captive with those bracelets of theirs? It has been years, and they still continue to refuse all offers of payment and barter! They return our civility with rudeness and insults."

 

"We are not meant to beg," said aged Bruan. "The Aiel will soon become milk-fed wetlanders."

 

All nodded at his words. Wise Bruan had lived through the Last Battle.

 

"If only the Seanchan Empress . . ." Ronam shook his head, and she knew what he was thinking. The old empress, the one who had ruled during the days of the Last Battle, had been considered a woman of honor by Ronam's father. An understanding had nearly been reached with her, so it was said. But many years had passed since her rule.

 

"Regardless," Ronam continued, "the spears clash; our people fight when they meet. It is our nature. If the Seanchan won't listen to reason, then what cause do we have to leave them be?"