Discuss The Full Book

[cauthon123]

just wanted to know who the person who killed barriga during the epilogue was. barriga thought he was an aiel but he wasn't and he killed him who or what was that guy? shaido aiel? seanchan?

[Tom Sawyer]

just wanted to know who the person who killed barriga during the epilogue was. barriga thought he was an aiel but he wasn't and he killed him who or what was that guy? shaido aiel? seanchan?

 

I think that the whole point of putting it in the epilogue was so that we wouldn't know until the next book.

[cauthon123]

just wanted to know who the person who killed barriga during the epilogue was. barriga thought he was an aiel but he wasn't and he killed him who or what was that guy? shaido aiel? seanchan?

 

I think that the whole point of putting it in the epilogue was so that we wouldn't know until the next book.

 

 

mhehe. RAFO huh? sad. in the new spring comics aiel wore red veils though didn't they?

[mykal71]

I just got done with ToM. I don't remember reading that Graendal killed Asmo... Did I just miss it??

 

Btw, I DON'T think we've seen the last of Mesaana. She laid an unknown weave on one of her cronies (don't remember her name) right before "her" confrontation with Eg in the World of Dreams. If you lay a Mirror o' Mist (or whatever it's called) on someone else & Compel them to believe that they're you, it wouldn't disipate with their downfall... Just a passing thought...

[Mulk]

I just got done with ToM. I don't remember reading that Graendal killed Asmo... Did I just miss it??

 

Btw, I DON'T think we've seen the last of Mesaana. She laid an unknown weave on one of her cronies (don't remember her name) right before "her" confrontation with Eg in the World of Dreams. If you lay a Mirror o' Mist (or whatever it's called) on someone else & Compel them to believe that they're you, it wouldn't disipate with their downfall... Just a passing thought...

 

She laid the weave on Katerine Alruddin, whom Egwene killed right before encountering Mesaana

[Sharaman]

Anyone made sense of Perrin's vision of Mat fighting many versions of himself while somebody creeps up on him with a knife?

[cauthon123]

Anyone made sense of Perrin's vision of Mat fighting many versions of himself while somebody creeps up on him with a knife?

 

i guess we'll find out when he goes to the white tower to get the horn. he sent that messenger remember? maybe it has something to do with him finally accepting the hold aes sedai have or something. very iffy viewing.

 

i cant believe we've to wait till jan 2012 for AMOL. damn! they haven't revealed anything about demandred, taim, or moiridin suddenly popping up into rand's vision when he was insane. too many questions. im bloody buzzing!

[Tom Sawyer]

I just got done with ToM. I don't remember reading that Graendal killed Asmo... Did I just miss it??

 

Btw, I DON'T think we've seen the last of Mesaana. She laid an unknown weave on one of her cronies (don't remember her name) right before "her" confrontation with Eg in the World of Dreams. If you lay a Mirror o' Mist (or whatever it's called) on someone else & Compel them to believe that they're you, it wouldn't disipate with their downfall... Just a passing thought...

 

I think we've seen the last of Mesanna. There's one book left and Moridin and Demandred still haven't really done anything. Also, there's Moghidien and Lanfear still hanging around and they haven't killed off Graendal yet. If Mesanna shows up again, it'll just be to die off pretty quickly while they get back to a main plotline, so it'd be kind of pointless to keep her alive. Also, they just did that with Graendal and it would be kind of lame to start off the next book with an identical scene for Mesanna.

[cauthon123]

I just got done with ToM. I don't remember reading that Graendal killed Asmo... Did I just miss it??

 

Btw, I DON'T think we've seen the last of Mesaana. She laid an unknown weave on one of her cronies (don't remember her name) right before "her" confrontation with Eg in the World of Dreams. If you lay a Mirror o' Mist (or whatever it's called) on someone else & Compel them to believe that they're you, it wouldn't disipate with their downfall... Just a passing thought...

 

I think we've seen the last of Mesanna. There's one book left and Moridin and Demandred still haven't really done anything. Also, there's Moghidien and Lanfear still hanging around and they haven't killed off Graendal yet. If Mesanna shows up again, it'll just be to die off pretty quickly while they get back to a main plotline, so it'd be kind of pointless to keep her alive. Also, they just did that with Graendal and it would be kind of lame to start off the next book with an identical scene for Mesanna.

 

we read in the epilogue that lanfear reached for rand, and was consumed by darkness. thats gotta be a couple of chapters and, shaidar haran does something. lets not forget, throughout the series, all the forsaken are given 2 chances (minus revival). graendal got her 2nd chance at the beginning of the book in the chapter with moiridin. i guess they'll probably keep her around to entertain our curiosity W.r.t asmodean.

[mykal71]

Btw, I DON'T think we've seen the last of Mesaana. She laid an unknown weave on one of her cronies (don't remember her name) right before "her" confrontation with Eg in the World of Dreams. If you lay a Mirror o' Mist (or whatever it's called) on someone else & Compel them to believe that they're you, it wouldn't disipate with their downfall... Just a passing thought...

 

I think we've seen the last of Mesanna. There's one book left and Moridin and Demandred still haven't really done anything. Also, there's Moghidien and Lanfear still hanging around and they haven't killed off Graendal yet. If Mesanna shows up again, it'll just be to die off pretty quickly while they get back to a main plotline, so it'd be kind of pointless to keep her alive. Also, they just did that with Graendal and it would be kind of lame to start off the next book with an identical scene for Mesanna.

 

Ok, I'd agree with everything you just said except... What would be the point of laying some mysterious weave on one of your flunkies, if not for some sort of bait-&-switch ploy? What better way to throw all of Eg's plans into the garbage than to spring a Forsaken she'd thought taken care of into the mix?

[Mulk]

I think you missed my response above, Mike. :) She laid the weave on Katerine. Katerine is dead, Egwene killed her. And you're right, it WAS a bait and switch - it distracted Egwene long enough for Mesaana to slip an a'dam onto her. It just didn't work out well for Mesaana anymore than it did for Katerine. She's gone.

[mykal71]

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm going to have to go back & re-read the book. My initial read-throuhtook only about a day & a half and I'm having difficulty digesting all of it...

[DPT24]

Rj said Lan was the best blademaster in the series, Rand second (pre injury). We know Galad is better than Gawayn, and we know they're both very successful (Galad killed Valda, Gawayn killed Hammar, 3 bloodknives). Also, Bryne killed a bloodkinfe in TGS. So that means if they fought, Lan would kill Gawayn. Gawyn and Galad are very good, but remember a sick Mat beat them in TDR.

[Tom Sawyer]

Btw, I DON'T think we've seen the last of Mesaana. She laid an unknown weave on one of her cronies (don't remember her name) right before "her" confrontation with Eg in the World of Dreams. If you lay a Mirror o' Mist (or whatever it's called) on someone else & Compel them to believe that they're you, it wouldn't disipate with their downfall... Just a passing thought...

 

I think we've seen the last of Mesanna. There's one book left and Moridin and Demandred still haven't really done anything. Also, there's Moghidien and Lanfear still hanging around and they haven't killed off Graendal yet. If Mesanna shows up again, it'll just be to die off pretty quickly while they get back to a main plotline, so it'd be kind of pointless to keep her alive. Also, they just did that with Graendal and it would be kind of lame to start off the next book with an identical scene for Mesanna.

 

Ok, I'd agree with everything you just said except... What would be the point of laying some mysterious weave on one of your flunkies, if not for some sort of bait-&-switch ploy? What better way to throw all of Eg's plans into the garbage than to spring a Forsaken she'd thought taken care of into the mix?

 

Like QuietAiel said, that's what she did. She got Egwene to kill Katerine and think she killed her and then snapped an a'dam on her neck. Remember that it really wouldn't be good enough for Mesanna to have some vague plot to do something about Egwene in the future, given that she was in serious poo-poo with the DO over the failure of her previous plots. She needed a win by beating Egwene, not by having a plan to maybe do something about her sometime in the future.

[Tom Sawyer]

BTW, request to the mods that we get an Elayne arc thread. There was a bunch about her in the book and should probably be its own topic.

[mykal71]

Btw, I DON'T think we've seen the last of Mesaana. She laid an unknown weave on one of her cronies (don't remember her name) right before "her" confrontation with Eg in the World of Dreams. If you lay a Mirror o' Mist (or whatever it's called) on someone else & Compel them to believe that they're you, it wouldn't disipate with their downfall... Just a passing thought...

 

I think we've seen the last of Mesanna. There's one book left and Moridin and Demandred still haven't really done anything. Also, there's Moghidien and Lanfear still hanging around and they haven't killed off Graendal yet. If Mesanna shows up again, it'll just be to die off pretty quickly while they get back to a main plotline, so it'd be kind of pointless to keep her alive. Also, they just did that with Graendal and it would be kind of lame to start off the next book with an identical scene for Mesanna.

 

Ok, I'd agree with everything you just said except... What would be the point of laying some mysterious weave on one of your flunkies, if not for some sort of bait-&-switch ploy? What better way to throw all of Eg's plans into the garbage than to spring a Forsaken she'd thought taken care of into the mix?

 

Like QuietAiel said, that's what she did. She got Egwene to kill Katerine and think she killed her and then snapped an a'dam on her neck. Remember that it really wouldn't be good enough for Mesanna to have some vague plot to do something about Egwene in the future, given that she was in serious poo-poo with the DO over the failure of her previous plots. She needed a win by beating Egwene, not by having a plan to maybe do something about her sometime in the future.

Ok, ok... I give! Like I said, I went through the book pretty quickly (for me) & that was just an impression I got. But if it's true that Mes'y really is done-for, it was a fairly messy reveal on who she was impersonating. They found her drooling & soiling herself. (punn intended!)

 

I did like the way Eg took her out, though.

[ashan]

Can anyone tell us whether there is any further information on the sword that Rand got in A Gathering Storm. I seem to re-call him recognizing it, and there seemed to be a mystery left up in the air about it. Can't remember the exact context, but he specifically said that it was his own memory, and not LTT's, that he remembered it from, and it REALLY thew me for a loop. I was hoping maybe that would be explained in ToM?!?!?!

 

nearly universal theory is that it's Artur Hawkwing's sword Justice. IIRC, he saw Hawkwing using it WAAAAAY back in TGH.

 

didn't Rand say that scholars had found the sword at dragonmount?

i seem to remember something about Lews Therin having an ancient sword and it would make sense that on the spot that he went crazy his sword would be buried. I don't think its justice but it could be.

[mykal71]

Can anyone tell us whether there is any further information on the sword that Rand got in A Gathering Storm. I seem to re-call him recognizing it, and there seemed to be a mystery left up in the air about it. Can't remember the exact context, but he specifically said that it was his own memory, and not LTT's, that he remembered it from, and it REALLY thew me for a loop. I was hoping maybe that would be explained in ToM?!?!?!

 

nearly universal theory is that it's Artur Hawkwing's sword Justice. IIRC, he saw Hawkwing using it WAAAAAY back in TGH.

 

didn't Rand say that scholars had found the sword at dragonmount?

i seem to remember something about Lews Therin having an ancient sword and it would make sense that on the spot that he went crazy his sword would be buried. I don't think its justice but it could be.

Whatever happened to the sword that Aviendah gave him?

[Dakota]

I just got done with ToM. I don't remember reading that Graendal killed Asmo... Did I just miss it??

It's easy to miss, I missed it too, at first.

Right before SH takes Graendal to have his way with her, he comments about how she was directly responsible for the deaths of three of the chosen. Arangar and Mesanna were in that book, and the only other Forsaken who's death can be pinned on her is Asmo. That's about the only in-context confirmation that she did it, weak and flimsy as it is.

 

But just to fully bury the issue, Graendal's entry in the glossary outright states that she was responsible for Asmo's death.

[ashan]

Can anyone tell us whether there is any further information on the sword that Rand got in A Gathering Storm. I seem to re-call him recognizing it, and there seemed to be a mystery left up in the air about it. Can't remember the exact context, but he specifically said that it was his own memory, and not LTT's, that he remembered it from, and it REALLY thew me for a loop. I was hoping maybe that would be explained in ToM?!?!?!

 

nearly universal theory is that it's Artur Hawkwing's sword Justice. IIRC, he saw Hawkwing using it WAAAAAY back in TGH.

 

didn't Rand say that scholars had found the sword at dragonmount?

i seem to remember something about Lews Therin having an ancient sword and it would make sense that on the spot that he went crazy his sword would be buried. I don't think its justice but it could be.

Whatever happened to the sword that Aviendah gave him?

Pretty sure laman's sword was destroyed

[Gor]

I just got done with ToM. I don't remember reading that Graendal killed Asmo... Did I just miss it??

It's easy to miss, I missed it too, at first.

Right before SH takes Graendal to have his way with her, he comments about how she was directly responsible for the deaths of three of the chosen. Arangar and Mesanna were in that book, and the only other Forsaken who's death can be pinned on her is Asmo. That's about the only in-context confirmation that she did it, weak and flimsy as it is.

 

But just to fully bury the issue, Graendal's entry in the glossary outright states that she was responsible for Asmo's death.

This wasn't a mystery as soon as we have her *first* PoV. Chapter 5. Moridin says something along the exact same lines as Shaidar Haran. Maybe it's because I was so sure it was Graendal anyway, but I'm shocked at the amount of people that seem to have missed that.

[Mehn_Deke]

I'll just repost this here:

 

Can we now confirm that Bashere is not a DF? He witnesses Rands Awesomlightness, but neither he or Iltrude (sp?) go and cast themselves off the top of the tower as they watch. The DF down below however go and cut their eyes out or see if they are really AS who have rediscovered flight.

[sdelu]

Btw, I DON'T think we've seen the last of Mesaana. She laid an unknown weave on one of her cronies (don't remember her name) right before "her" confrontation with Eg in the World of Dreams. If you lay a Mirror o' Mist (or whatever it's called) on someone else & Compel them to believe that they're you, it wouldn't disipate with their downfall... Just a passing thought...

 

I think we've seen the last of Mesanna. There's one book left and Moridin and Demandred still haven't really done anything. Also, there's Moghidien and Lanfear still hanging around and they haven't killed off Graendal yet. If Mesanna shows up again, it'll just be to die off pretty quickly while they get back to a main plotline, so it'd be kind of pointless to keep her alive. Also, they just did that with Graendal and it would be kind of lame to start off the next book with an identical scene for Mesanna.

 

Ok, I'd agree with everything you just said except... What would be the point of laying some mysterious weave on one of your flunkies, if not for some sort of bait-&-switch ploy? What better way to throw all of Eg's plans into the garbage than to spring a Forsaken she'd thought taken care of into the mix?

 

Like QuietAiel said, that's what she did. She got Egwene to kill Katerine and think she killed her and then snapped an a'dam on her neck. Remember that it really wouldn't be good enough for Mesanna to have some vague plot to do something about Egwene in the future, given that she was in serious poo-poo with the DO over the failure of her previous plots. She needed a win by beating Egwene, not by having a plan to maybe do something about her sometime in the future.

 

Yeah. She did a GREAT job of that.

 

She was only beaten, raped, and otherwise punished, but STILL she decides that she'll try to get the dreamspike (which she should know the Aes Sedai can't possibly know how to use, considering she's been masquerading as one for a while now, and has seen how little they know of the AoL) and destroy other Forsaken.

 

Then, when she can crush Egwene in a SECOND, she puts an adam around her neck. O-KAY. Fantastic. Way to learn your lessons. "But I had a plan to take them away from the WT!!" Or... you could have just KILLED her, which is probably preferable to doing nothing at all.

 

Let's not forget that Mesaana KNOWS what a dreamspike is, and knows T'A'R. So how come the moron can't figure out to simply take them to the edge of the dome, then go through? Or, why doesn't she just go to the center of the dome and look for the spike?

 

This might have been the best fantasy series ever written, if not for the complete incompetence of the "bad" guys. I could probably beat some of them in a fight.

 

And the way it happened! I honestly would have preferred if Mashadar had shown up and swallowed her. At least THAT was somewhat believable, if not the worst death for a badass character I've ever read.

[Sharaman]

Btw, I DON'T think we've seen the last of Mesaana. She laid an unknown weave on one of her cronies (don't remember her name) right before "her" confrontation with Eg in the World of Dreams. If you lay a Mirror o' Mist (or whatever it's called) on someone else & Compel them to believe that they're you, it wouldn't disipate with their downfall... Just a passing thought...

 

I think we've seen the last of Mesanna. There's one book left and Moridin and Demandred still haven't really done anything. Also, there's Moghidien and Lanfear still hanging around and they haven't killed off Graendal yet. If Mesanna shows up again, it'll just be to die off pretty quickly while they get back to a main plotline, so it'd be kind of pointless to keep her alive. Also, they just did that with Graendal and it would be kind of lame to start off the next book with an identical scene for Mesanna.

 

Ok, I'd agree with everything you just said except... What would be the point of laying some mysterious weave on one of your flunkies, if not for some sort of bait-&-switch ploy? What better way to throw all of Eg's plans into the garbage than to spring a Forsaken she'd thought taken care of into the mix?

 

Like QuietAiel said, that's what she did. She got Egwene to kill Katerine and think she killed her and then snapped an a'dam on her neck. Remember that it really wouldn't be good enough for Mesanna to have some vague plot to do something about Egwene in the future, given that she was in serious poo-poo with the DO over the failure of her previous plots. She needed a win by beating Egwene, not by having a plan to maybe do something about her sometime in the future.

 

Yeah. She did a GREAT job of that.

 

She was only beaten, raped, and otherwise punished, but STILL she decides that she'll try to get the dreamspike (which she should know the Aes Sedai can't possibly know how to use, considering she's been masquerading as one for a while now, and has seen how little they know of the AoL) and destroy other Forsaken.

 

Then, when she can crush Egwene in a SECOND, she puts an adam around her neck. O-KAY. Fantastic. Way to learn your lessons. "But I had a plan to take them away from the WT!!" Or... you could have just KILLED her, which is probably preferable to doing nothing at all.

 

Let's not forget that Mesaana KNOWS what a dreamspike is, and knows T'A'R. So how come the moron can't figure out to simply take them to the edge of the dome, then go through? Or, why doesn't she just go to the center of the dome and look for the spike?

 

This might have been the best fantasy series ever written, if not for the complete incompetence of the "bad" guys. I could probably beat some of them in a fight.

 

And the way it happened! I honestly would have preferred if Mashadar had shown up and swallowed her. At least THAT was somewhat believable, if not the worst death for a badass character I've ever read.

I suspect that Perrin-Hopper etc., found a new way to break through the edge of the dome that AoL-ites didn't know or couldn't pull off.

Maybe only a wolf-man can be centred enough to do this.

Otherwise, a D-Spike would only have worked in the AoL if it was continuously guarded in TAR by very strong dreamers.

[1eejit]

So... has Beslan been tampered with (heh) by Graendal? She spoke of starting to tie new strings to Tuon and that pretty-boy with his recent change of heart and conspicuous loyalty sounds like a decent candidate.

 

Ed: not that I'm attributing all of that to direct compulsion, though Graendal can be pretty subtle...