Thoughts on a Bloodbath...

[Tenesmus]

I have been thinking about how RJ never really got around to killing off any chaacter of significance, and thought that maybe the reason he didn't, was becasue he was planning on a "The Departed" style ending where everyone gets whacked. What do you think the chnaces are on this type of Bloodbath ending?

[FarShainMael]

I think Brandon has said that he gets to play axeman, or some such phrase.. so yes, there's going to be some serious offing in the offing. ()

 

Just as well Mat hasn't invented the chainsaw yet.

[Tom Sawyer]

I think there'll be a couple. Killing off some of your main characters seems to be a fashionable thing to do these days, so I wouldn't be surprised to see a few bite it.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I think people misunderstand RJ not killing of "main characters". The EF five are all crucial to the victory of the light. You cant exactly kill off Mat or Perrin because they are key to defeating the shadow. Same with Egwene, Elayne, Nynaeve etc..

 

There would be no point in following Egwene just to have her die randomly. Each of the main characters have a crucial place in the Pattern.

 

I think it is better than having characters die.

I love aSoIaF, but it really pissed me off that Eddard died at the end of the first book. We had all this character development and was wasted by a pointless death.

 

Same with Malazan Book of the Fallen. A whole bunch of characters we have PoV from die for no reason with no plot development.

 

So, having said that, I think RJ didnt "avoid" killing main characters, but left the butchers work for the final books. That way the characters death's will actually mean something rather than having them die for the sake of dying.

[graendalzooescapee]

Will definitely survive: Mat and Aviendha (RJ said they were in the final scene) and Tuon (because of the outrigger).

 

Probably won't die: Rand's women (3 on a boat)

 

Everyone else could easily be toast.

[username13]

"POV Characters" Is kinda broad, seeing as we even get POV's from Almen Bunt, Asmodean, Bela, Sheriam, etc. So I'm guessing you mean our main cast who left Two Rivers in EotW (Emond Fielders plus Moiraine, Thom, Jeff the Myrdraal, Fain, Lan) plus some of the majors that come along later such as Min. If that's the case I'm seeing around 5 or so going, not enough to make it seem like The Departed but enough that it gives the readers a shock and a few angry letters

[Byzantine279]

Yes, you can't include all of the random pov Aes Sedai and others we have got, they are clearly toast.

[ajfurst]

I think people misunderstand RJ not killing of "main characters". The EF five are all crucial to the victory of the light. You cant exactly kill off Mat or Perrin because they are key to defeating the shadow. Same with Egwene, Elayne, Nynaeve etc..

 

I love aSoIaF, but it really pissed me off that Eddard died at the end of the first book. We had all this character development and was wasted by a pointless death.

 

So, having said that, I think RJ didnt "avoid" killing main characters, but left the butchers work for the final books. That way the characters death's will actually mean something rather than having them die for the sake of dying.

There's the price to pay along the way argument though as well. Ned's death in aSoIaF isn't pointless. If he'd been alive at the end the whole story is different. That he's just not seen in POV's from his family / friends makes it more powerful.

And the big one that in aSoIaF you fear your favourite characters may not make it through books other then last 1 or 2. Since around book 3 that worry has been gone for WOT until wondering if there'll be any now at the very end.

 

Now the big 3 and (reluctantly) Egwene are essential, but I'd argue the following 'close to main' aren't -

Elayne - not the most powerful channeler, and Dyelin couldn't have been crowned queen and done the same basic 'not a vassal, but will fight besides at the LB' line Elayne did about Rand.

Aviendha - plenty of other Aiel channelers

Min - although she has an ability no one else does, so I'd argue less expendable then the above.

How powerful would Rand's revelation been if he'd been depressed over losing one of his 3 on top of feeling he's just a tool to save an ungrateful world?

 

Or Perrin losing Faile and almost going wolf to cope?

 

Or even leaving aside the big 3 and their loves, how about Egwene forced to choose between Amyrlin and Gawyn living? (One can still hope on this though the odds are about 1% given the happy endings so far). That would have been a real price paid to save the Tower instead of some spankings.

 

WOT is my favourite series, but the lack of non red-shirt deaths is its greatest flaw IMO. I hope this changes at the end - but I don't think it will beyond maybe Lan.

[yoniy0]

Everyone can die, as far as I'm concerned, except Egwene and Elayne. That is, as long as they wait for AMoL to do it

 

A whole book without Rand might get weird...

[OptimusPrime]

Rand Moridin Demandred Mesaana Graendal. Five without even guessing at the lesser obvious ones.

 

Ive said it before and will say it again, if Nynaeve dies I will not read any further.

[Juggler]

I think we could see quite a few aiel killed, some generals, maybe a king or 2 I wouldn't be surprised if we have a death in the rescue of moiraine - Noal could be knocked off with no damage to the plot, maybe a fight with the gholam again. a few named aes sedai could go too. I imagine alanna will survive due to her bond ing of rand OR conversely she could die but instead of going crazy the multiple bond protects him.

[randsc]

Lan probably won't die. I expect there to be heavy foreshadowing that Malkier will be re-established in the new age. Though it is possible that Nynaeve has a little Malkieri bun inthe oven, and Daddy does die.

 

Nynaeve doesn't die, for the same reason.

 

Perrin doesn't die, and there will be Manetheren re-establishment foreshadowing similar to that concerning Malkier. We can all hope that Faile dies, but I doubt it. I think the whole Broken Crown thing will be allowed to play out.

 

Mat doesn't die, and Fortuna doesn't either. I expect the other men's memories will be gone from his head, however. She still has a role to play in the Empire.

 

Egwene may die. I base this on the beliefs that 1.) Her relationship with Gawain isn't important/interesting enough that the narrative demands a happily-ever-after for them, thus ensuring the survival of both or either; and 2.) There will be no channeling post-Last Battle, and the last the world will need is Aes Sedai built to current spec. There will be a new Aes Sedai order, with white and black towers, but not based on the ability to channel. I expect that the new tower that Elaida was building as her palace will become the new Black Tower.

 

Gawain will die, hopefully slowly, of sepsis, after being stabbed in the gut.

 

Min dies. Probably, unfortunately, before the long-anticipated foursome can take place.

 

Elayne's babies will be born in this book, leaving her free to die in the next. Hopefully by being drowned in her bath.

 

Avi doesn't die, because 1.) She is in the last scene; 2.) her four babies, two of which will be Elayne's twins; 3.) she's just too damn cool.

 

Basically, I think Robert Jordan was essentially a nationalist, perceiving differences between peoples to be real, meaningful and valuable. So we're not looking at one big, Kum-ba-ya-singin New World Order at the end, but rather the re-emergence of the old nations. I think he places a high value on honor and physical courage, and will be inclined to "reward" the Borderlanders (including the Makieri), the proto- (or is it retro-?) Manetheren, and the Aiel. I think he is big on people getting what is coming to them, good or ill. I could see a large number of Aiel, returned to the Way of the Leaf, also returning to their relationship with the Aes Sedai, and re-populating the empty areas around Tar Valon (which will be more like a University town than a center of world power). With a remnent returning to the Waste. I also think that Jordan was at heart a populist, and the high-and-mighty will be, nearly universally, taken down a peg.

 

And Selucia is a man.

[randsc]

My personal pet theory of the resolution of this whole epic involves Galad, which is why his fate is note addressed in my post above.

[soccerscott]

Lan probably won't die. I expect there to be heavy foreshadowing that Malkier will be re-established in the new age. Though it is possible that Nynaeve has a little Malkieri bun inthe oven, and Daddy does die.

 

Nynaeve doesn't die, for the same reason.

 

Perrin doesn't die, and there will be Manetheren re-establishment foreshadowing similar to that concerning Malkier. We can all hope that Faile dies, but I doubt it. I think the whole Broken Crown thing will be allowed to play out.

 

Mat doesn't die, and Fortuna doesn't either. I expect the other men's memories will be gone from his head, however. She still has a role to play in the Empire.

 

Egwene may die. I base this on the beliefs that 1.) Her relationship with Gawain isn't important/interesting enough that the narrative demands a happily-ever-after for them, thus ensuring the survival of both or either; and 2.) There will be no channeling post-Last Battle, and the last the world will need is Aes Sedai built to current spec. There will be a new Aes Sedai order, with white and black towers, but not based on the ability to channel. I expect that the new tower that Elaida was building as her palace will become the new Black Tower.

 

Gawain will die, hopefully slowly, of sepsis, after being stabbed in the gut.

 

Min dies. Probably, unfortunately, before the long-anticipated foursome can take place.

 

Elayne's babies will be born in this book, leaving her free to die in the next. Hopefully by being drowned in her bath.

 

Avi doesn't die, because 1.) She is in the last scene; 2.) her four babies, two of which will be Elayne's twins; 3.) she's just too damn cool.

 

Basically, I think Robert Jordan was essentially a nationalist, perceiving differences between peoples to be real, meaningful and valuable. So we're not looking at one big, Kum-ba-ya-singin New World Order at the end, but rather the re-emergence of the old nations. I think he places a high value on honor and physical courage, and will be inclined to "reward" the Borderlanders (including the Makieri), the proto- (or is it retro-?) Manetheren, and the Aiel. I think he is big on people getting what is coming to them, good or ill. I could see a large number of Aiel, returned to the Way of the Leaf, also returning to their relationship with the Aes Sedai, and re-populating the empty areas around Tar Valon (which will be more like a University town than a center of world power). With a remnent returning to the Waste. I also think that Jordan was at heart a populist, and the high-and-mighty will be, nearly universally, taken down a peg.

 

And Selucia is a man.

 

Last line, I def LOL'd.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Lan probably won't die. I expect there to be heavy foreshadowing that Malkier will be re-established in the new age. Though it is possible that Nynaeve has a little Malkieri bun inthe oven, and Daddy does die.

 

Nynaeve doesn't die, for the same reason.

 

Perrin doesn't die, and there will be Manetheren re-establishment foreshadowing similar to that concerning Malkier. We can all hope that Faile dies, but I doubt it. I think the whole Broken Crown thing will be allowed to play out.

 

Mat doesn't die, and Fortuna doesn't either. I expect the other men's memories will be gone from his head, however. She still has a role to play in the Empire.

 

Egwene may die. I base this on the beliefs that 1.) Her relationship with Gawain isn't important/interesting enough that the narrative demands a happily-ever-after for them, thus ensuring the survival of both or either; and 2.) There will be no channeling post-Last Battle, and the last the world will need is Aes Sedai built to current spec. There will be a new Aes Sedai order, with white and black towers, but not based on the ability to channel. I expect that the new tower that Elaida was building as her palace will become the new Black Tower.

 

Gawain will die, hopefully slowly, of sepsis, after being stabbed in the gut.

 

Min dies. Probably, unfortunately, before the long-anticipated foursome can take place.

 

Elayne's babies will be born in this book, leaving her free to die in the next. Hopefully by being drowned in her bath.

 

Avi doesn't die, because 1.) She is in the last scene; 2.) her four babies, two of which will be Elayne's twins; 3.) she's just too damn cool.

 

Basically, I think Robert Jordan was essentially a nationalist, perceiving differences between peoples to be real, meaningful and valuable. So we're not looking at one big, Kum-ba-ya-singin New World Order at the end, but rather the re-emergence of the old nations. I think he places a high value on honor and physical courage, and will be inclined to "reward" the Borderlanders (including the Makieri), the proto- (or is it retro-?) Manetheren, and the Aiel. I think he is big on people getting what is coming to them, good or ill. I could see a large number of Aiel, returned to the Way of the Leaf, also returning to their relationship with the Aes Sedai, and re-populating the empty areas around Tar Valon (which will be more like a University town than a center of world power). With a remnent returning to the Waste. I also think that Jordan was at heart a populist, and the high-and-mighty will be, nearly universally, taken down a peg.

 

And Selucia is a man.

 

Last line, I def LOL'd.

@randsc- Like the points. I dont think perrin will revive Manetheren though. No inclination, its only the two rivers men who want it. I can see how it may have been forshadowed, but I just cant think Perrin would become king of Manetheren. The Broken Crown of Saldaea. Seems Faile will become queen and him king. I dont think theres any room for Manetheren.

 

Also, regards to Egwene dying, completely besides people hating her, I think she is the most likely to die out of the EF 5.(apart from Rand of course.) Technically, she isnt really needed anymore. Perrin and Mat are all hardcore Taveren and such. Nynaeve has min's viewing of a child (child with a sword in cradle. Min's viewings are not of the past, so its not lan.) So technically she COULD die before the end.

 

@scott - That is actually a real theory, no joke.

[OptimusPrime]

Elayne's babies will be born in this book, leaving her free to die in the next. Hopefully by being drowned in her bath.

 

By Moridin. Just after the labor. The Dark One told Moridin not to kill the kids as one of them might be a Hero reborn and a tool for later, but Moridin is here to cause Rand serious mental anguish right before the last battle. He drowns her in her bath with his bare hands, no channeling. And then he channels the True Power so as Rand feels his bond to Elayne snap he sees Moridins face laughing MUHAHAHAHAAAAA

[Barid Bel Medar]

Elayne's babies will be born in this book, leaving her free to die in the next. Hopefully by being drowned in her bath.

 

By Moridin. Just after the labor. The Dark One told Moridin not to kill the kids as one of them might be a Hero reborn and a tool for later, but Moridin is here to cause Rand serious mental anguish right before the last battle. He drowns her in her bath with his bare hands, no channeling. And then he channels the True Power so as Rand feels his bond to Elayne snap he sees Moridins face laughing MUHAHAHAHAAAAA

 

Just to make sure, he balefires her, so she doesnt manage to sneak back somehow.

[FarShainMael]

Avi might die in that last scene..

[Barid Bel Medar]

Avi might die in that last scene..

 

I tend to agree. I have not seen the quote saying she will be in the last scene for myself, so I dont know the specifics. But it seems very strange that RJ (or whoever it was) to say Aviendha is in the last scene adn nobody else. Why would he mention it at all really? The only possible reason I can see is the comment was used to mess with us. There is no apprehension that Avi dies now, she is in the final scene, obviously after everything is over right?

 

Well I am thinking wrong. RJ said that the ending doesnt tie everything up, its not a whole "happy ever after" thing. I could see the last scene being Avi dying, similar to the Asmodean scene in FoH.

[maxofox]

People that need to/will die:

 

-Lan

-Rodel Ituralde

-Fain

-Forsaken

-Rand

-Casudane

-Nynaeve (Lan)

-Mat? (or has he gotten his out of the way?)

 

People likely to die:

 

-Gawyn

-Tenobia

-Bashere

-Asunawa

-Furyk Karede

-Taim

 

There is no way Lan lives through the series. His death has been forshadowed way too much for it not to happen.

[PhoenixFlame]

There definitely needs to be some major characters kicking the bucket. I'll be disappointed if there isn't.

I think Mat and Perrin will survive, Rand I'm not sure.

Somehow I don't think Min, Avienda and Elayne will snuff it, though if they were my bets would beon either Avienda or Min.

Unfortunately I think Lan is going to die. Everyone wants to see him reclaim his throne in Malkier, but somehow I've got a feeling that he won't quite get there. He's my fave character and I really want him to survive but I've just got a bad feeling. But if this does happen Nyneave has to be at least pregnant. We can't have Malkier being reclaimed but having no heir.

Maybe Cadsuane will be done away with. To be honest I don't think she'd mind. Rand's now (hopefully) learned his lesson and she really wanted to live for the Last Battle. She might feel getting killed in the Last Battle would give her great honour.