A Purpose For The Windfinders In Caemlyn

[Luckers]

So it occurs to me that Jordan went to great efforts to first see the Windfinders to Caemlyn, and then ensure they stayed there--even going so far as having Elayne not see that the Kin could link to restock Caemlyn until after Elayne was forced into a Bargain with the Atha'an Miere.

 

So it led me to wonder... why? Was it just so that he'd have characters around who were strong enough to put a smack down on the Black Ajah? Could they have another role to play?

[Sharaman]

Entirely random speculation follows.

Since TG is not going to have a naval component as far as we can tell, the seafolk seem useful as power wielders and not much else.

Their serious ability is with weather and they do have the Bowl so, maybe they could help snafu Dark attacks that depend on cloud cover,etc. (Don't want to go into spoiler territory).

They also detest the Seanchan and have slugged it out with the OP on toe-to-toe basis several times. If the Seanchan have Travel and raid Caemlyn the Windfinders would probably respond quicker and more effectively than the Kin, or random AS.

Another unresolved thread is Talaan running away with Merilille - could there be some follow through on that? If Merilille is BA and she turns Talaan using 13x13 ?

Also, there was a Athan Miere man at the DF social in TGH, IIRC? Could there be some plot involving that chap and a DF Athan contingent?

[GB]

i think we might see that talaan is in the united tower now, i dont think Merilille is black, she wasnt on verin's list and it just doesnt seem to fit her being black and also careane or i forgot the name of the sister who murdered adeleas might have known there was another BA.

but back to the topic

 

i think the windfinders will end up fighting in camelyn along with an army once the LB battles, they are among the most powerful channelers among the Sea folk and a battle or invasion of trollocs/shadowspawn in camelyn or maybe seanchan advancing towards andor, before the truce is made.

 

it could be elayne convinces them through a bargain that they can get revenge on the seanchan for all the captured windfinders by helping stop an army and it might end up that the truce is made just before the battle starts. messenger sent by travelling help stop the battle.

 

i do admit that it is a loony theory.

[Luckers]

i think we might see that talaan is in the united tower now, i dont think Merilille is black, she wasnt on verin's list and it just doesnt seem to fit her being black and also careane or i forgot the name of the sister who murdered adeleas might have known there was another BA.

but back to the topic

 

i think the windfinders will end up fighting in camelyn along with an army once the LB battles, they are among the most powerful channelers among the Sea folk and a battle or invasion of trollocs/shadowspawn in camelyn or maybe seanchan advancing towards andor, before the truce is made.

 

it could be elayne convinces them through a bargain that they can get revenge on the seanchan for all the captured windfinders by helping stop an army and it might end up that the truce is made just before the battle starts. messenger sent by travelling help stop the battle.

 

i do admit that it is a loony theory.

 

 

I actually raised the posibility that Talaan and Merilille were killed by Careane as a part of her orders to drive female channelers out of the palace--the Windfinders stuck together--and were thus hard to kill and drive to leaving. But Talaan who wanted more than anything to be Aes Sedai and Merilille who wanted more than anything to escape Caemlyn... it seems a perfect situation for Careane to exploit.

[GB]

i think we might see that talaan is in the united tower now, i dont think Merilille is black, she wasnt on verin's list and it just doesnt seem to fit her being black and also careane or i forgot the name of the sister who murdered adeleas might have known there was another BA.

but back to the topic

 

i think the windfinders will end up fighting in camelyn along with an army once the LB battles, they are among the most powerful channelers among the Sea folk and a battle or invasion of trollocs/shadowspawn in camelyn or maybe seanchan advancing towards andor, before the truce is made.

 

it could be elayne convinces them through a bargain that they can get revenge on the seanchan for all the captured windfinders by helping stop an army and it might end up that the truce is made just before the battle starts. messenger sent by travelling help stop the battle.

 

i do admit that it is a loony theory.

 

 

I actually raised the posibility that Talaan and Merilille were killed by Careane as a part of her orders to drive female channelers out of the palace--the Windfinders stuck together--and were thus hard to kill and drive to leaving. But Talaan who wanted more than anything to be Aes Sedai and Merilille who wanted more than anything to escape Caemlyn... it seems a perfect situation for Careane to exploit.

 

correct me if i am wrong do we see at some point when she talks of her orders?

 

i can't recall at all or i might have missed it

[Luckers]

No, we have a report of Merilille and Talaan passing through the gates though.

 

Still--killing the Kin to drive them out from fear was a good plan, but one which would no have worked on the Windfinders. They stuck together and would not have gone off alone--especially with an Aes Sedai. And even if they did, they were all stronger than Careane. But the disapearence of an apprentice at the hands of an Aes Sedai would seem a good prompt for the windfinders to leave.

 

Inducing Merilille and Talaan to flee would not have been difficult, and from there I have doubts that Careane would have left them alive--not with the mission against the Kin in play. Merilille and Talaan could have fingered her, in such a situation. Alternatively Careane had access to darkfriends in the city. The report could be fake--a clue left much in the way that Careane left that Kinswomens doll--a hint to drive out the female channelers.

[Val Mickey]

Or we might just see them up and leave, since the bargain's done with.

[GB]

is the bargain done? dont the seafolk get twenty teachers? and they dont have that yet.

 

 

and i wonder if we will ever know what happened to Talaan and Merilille, certainly luckers it does make sense that Careane might have been spreading false trails to cover another murder but then as you pointed they both could have overwhelmed Careane unless caught by surprise maybe?

[Luckers]

The sea folk are supposed to get twenty teachers, though I wonder what Egwene will have to say about their abuses against those teachers...

[GB]

i think somehow elayne is going to solve that issue, she is one who is getting better at bargaining with the sea folk and might find a loophole or egwene will just have to make another bargain and make sure to have elayne around since she has the experience of dealing with seafolk and had made a good bargain for Andor at some point.

 

though it would be funny to see the Hall to learn of the bargain and egwene finding a way to make things right. she wouldn't settle for such abuses against Aes Sedai.

[Val Mickey]

Those are two separate bargains. One is the Bowl Bargain - which promised 20 teachers, and which they'll have to collect from the Amyrlin - and other the Andoran Bargain - which is done with, as the Sea Folk have their land.

 

And with Traveling, Talaan should have cropped up somewhere, unless she's become pillow friends with Merilille and is taking a vacation in the Riviera , or could be she's dead. I forget - does Merilille know that the rebels have camped in Tar Valon? Maybe they're still scouring Murandy for news.

[Val Mickey]

The sea folk are supposed to get twenty teachers, though I wonder what Egwene will have to say about their abuses against those teachers...

 

I don't know how acceptable this solution is, but on Elayne's journey to Tanchico, the Shipmistress mentions the fact that 'an Aes Sedai who follows the Coramoor' would be 'treated like a Shipmistress of another ship' - certainly that is enough to send Rand's AS on a 'penance' to the Sea Folk with their honour intact.

[GB]

yeah i just meant that Elayne did make a bargain with the seafolk in which she actually gained something. she is actually starting to think of both sides etc. another bargain she made was not a good one, it was just before she met Taim and had the first-sister adoption ceremony, and was something about the current aes sedai being teaching the seafolk or something like that.

 

so she might help egwene make something out of the first bargain or make another one in which they manage somehow to make amends.

[Luckers]

It's possible the Aes Sedai will break the bargain--the Atha'an Miere interpret 'teacher' under their conceptions of hierarchy, but the subservience of the Aes Sedai was not stipulated in the Bargain. As such the actions of the Atha'an Miere could be seen as an act of war.

 

Nynaeve, Elayne, Sareitha and Merilille should have raised this, but the Aes Sedai are so unused to dealing with channeling organisations on an equal footing that they let themselves be bullied. Egwene has that experience.

[Sharaman]

Do you think the narrative has time left for delicate interplays between channeling organisations ala CoT anymore?

I have my doubts on that score - the pace has picked up seriously since KoD.

If the WFs were placed there for a plot purpose, apart from offing BA and rescuing Elayne, it's likely for some major action-packed reason.

The thought that Talaan and Merilille may be dead is interesting. But it would have to be brought back into plot and we can't see it from a Careane PoV so I dunno how it'd be resolved. Unless they find corpses of course, somewhere in the woods.

Ah! That is a thought - two dessicated but recognisable corpses in the Black Tower grounds?

[cap10kirk]

It's possible the Aes Sedai will break the bargain--the Atha'an Miere interpret 'teacher' under their conceptions of hierarchy, but the subservience of the Aes Sedai was not stipulated in the Bargain. As such the actions of the Atha'an Miere could be seen as an act of war.

 

Nynaeve, Elayne, Sareitha and Merilille should have raised this, but the Aes Sedai are so unused to dealing with channeling organisations on an equal footing that they let themselves be bullied. Egwene has that experience.

The bullying by the Atha'an Miere really irked me in that I don't see how the so called Aes Sedai would stand for it. The so called Aes Sedai as a whole are pathetic. They are a bunch of blundering, narrow minded bullies. And like all bullies, if you punch them in the mouth, they just wilt. Egwene will go down as the greatest Aes Sedai. If not for her, the so called Aes Sedai would be destroyed.

[Durinax]

I tihnk cadsuane is closest to resolving this issue (as much as I hate to say that) once the sea folk with her go back they will be like the AS treated us horribly and thus force another bargain which will end up being mutually benefitial since it will stipulate the conditions embassadors are to be treated with

[TheAngryDruid]

Is the Andor bargain really done with? Yes, they have their land, but didn't they agree to do whatever the Caromoor wished? And doesn't he have to come to them if summoned? And keep an ambassador with him at all times?

 

I must admit, the Elayne airhead move (golly, we could have just linked) really bothered me, and RJ and Sanderson have done it again (I think) with Perrin's group (why don't the AS and some of the wise ones link with the Asha'man so they can make gateways?). That is really clumsy, again.

 

Back on topic, I think the Sea Folk may have one more card to play with Rand and Travelling, I think they may ask Rand (or the AS) to try and save some of the Amayar, if any are left to be saved.

[Durinax]

Is the Andor bargain really done with? Yes, they have their land, but didn't they agree to do whatever the Caromoor wished? And doesn't he have to come to them if summoned? And keep an ambassador with him at all times?

 

I must admit, the Elayne airhead move (golly, we could have just linked) really bothered me, and RJ and Sanderson have done it again (I think) with Perrin's group (why don't the AS and some of the wise ones link with the Asha'man so they can make gateways?). That is really clumsy, again.

 

Back on topic, I think the Sea Folk may have one more card to play with Rand and Travelling, I think they may ask Rand (or the AS) to try and save some of the Amayar, if any are left to be saved.

all are dead

[waffle]

Do the Windfinders in Caemlyn know that Mat helped Sea Folk escape Ebou Dar?

[Ozzie_aiel]

A simple loophole in that 20 teachers is that the Windfinders didn't say they would be subject to the ships law. An Aes Sedai teacher should be worth much more than an ordinary one, so shouldn't have to pull ropes. That, and learning new weaves may be dangerous, so Aes Sedai must have a higher rank than their tutored to ensure obedience. If the Sea Folk dont agree to this, then tell them they are free to dissolve the agreement with no extra cost incurred