How Fades come to be.

[Kaznen]

If I remember the BWB correctly Trollocs were first view as failures because while they were strong they were stupid and lazy. And the Fades were thought of as creepy and worthless. It wasn't until they "grew up" and showed intelligence and their other abilities that the shadow realized they had infantry.

 

I remember reading a answer from RJ that Trolloc females "breeders" like being pregnant.

[Corlock]

That sounds vaguely familiar to me Kaznen. As to Messana's breaking point, I think she's reached it, she just realizes there'd be no point in killing herself as she's bound to the shadow. She's sort of settled into a hopeless state. Or maybe she's plotting her revenge against SH, and has a plan to become Nael'blis. I really don't know, I just know that she must realize that there's no point to offing herself, having seen the other Forsaken brought back to life. Also, she may know about the healing of stilling and know that reduced strength is a result of being healed by a user of the same power. This may have led her to theorize that Cyndane is Lanfear and that being brought back to life accounts for the reduction in her strength, and Messana doesn't want to lose any of her strength in the power.

[bloodyflamingthisandthat]

I remember RJ saying in an interview that the ability to channel was a combination of both genetics and the soul. So, since Fades don't have a soul it would stand to reason that they cannot channel per se, but since the human throwback gene would have had that potential they thereby do have some powers similar to channeling. Most especially telling is the description the Fades give of the way that they sensed Egwene channeling in TGH

"I ITCH human, are you sure that they sleep?" This is similar to the goosebumps males get around females channeling. Also, the fact that Trollocs die in horrible pain when the Fade they are linked to is killed, which is quite similar to the death madness that a Warder feels when his Aes Sedai dies. Sometimes the Warders die instantly when their AS is killed, and sometimes they just go mad. The link between Trollocs and Fades is too similar to the bond between AS and Warders, perhaps the TP version of bonding. It was what turned me onto this theory a few years ago at all.

[Sharaman]

Moggy's PoV in ACoS does indicate she goes through despair, etc, and somehow deals with it. What SH did to Moggy was far worse than what he did to Messi in terms of extended "punishment", as well as sensory deprivation, mindtrapping, etc.

[FarShainMael]

I hadn't realised what was going on there, either, so I had another (rather reluctant) look at AcoS 25/30. Blink and you'll miss it - reference to 'a few bruises' and SH 'teaching' her what she needed to know. For the most part, though, she seems more terrified of Moridin than of SH.

 

The same reference to 'a few bruises' appears in Morgase's PoV in ACoS26, when she's thinking about what Valda did to her. She does think about being shamed, but her later intention to throw herself from the window (and to speak 'the irrevocable words' of abdication) was intended to deny Andor to the Seanchan, not an act of despair.

 

Also, I don't think Alanna's forced bonding of Rand got the attention it deserved, either.

 

But for me, the most horrifying moment in the books is when Toveine realises that she is doing what Logain wants even without thinking about it.. now that would drive me nuts.

 

(It would help if I could spell, too .. )

[Sharaman]

I hadn't realised what was going on there, either, so I had another (rather reluctant) look at AcoS 25/30. Blink and you'll miss it - reference to 'a few bruises' and SH 'teaching' her what she needed to know. For the most part, though, she seems more terrified of Moridin than of SH.

 

Thye same reference to 'a few bruises' appears in Morgase's PoV in ACoS26, when she's thinking about what Valda did to her. She does think about being shamed, but her latter intention to throw herself from the window (and to speak 'the irrevocable words' of abdication) was intended to deny Andor to the Seanchan, not an act of despair.

 

Also, I don't think Alanna's forced bonding of Rand got the attention it deserved, either.

 

But for me, the most horrifying moment in the books is when Toveine realises that she is doing what Logain wants even without thinking about it.. now that would drive me nuts.

 

RJ confirmed when asked, that Moggy had been "raped among other things". (Paraphrasing - don't have time to look for the quote- sure you can find it FSM!).

Logain wasn't sexually abusing Toveine and IIRC, Gabrielle says she had to work hard to seduce him. I guess you mean the mind control of the warder bond?

Yes, that aspect of the warder bond has always struck me as sick - AS don't spell it out, even when they ask for permission to bond a warder (quite apart from the nasty side effects of an AS dying).

[FarShainMael]

I do indeed mean the mind control bit. It really gives me the creeps! Though I gather it's not a general effect of the usual warder bond that we see between Lan and Moiraine, for example, at least not in the timeframe of the story. Though there was indeed an element of compulsion in the transfer of the bond to Myrelle, which caused Lan to seek her out.

[Byzantine279]

Yes it is far. Just to a far lesser degree than the one on the black tower aes sedai. Remember Alanna tried using it to control Rand and failed miserably (because he was holding Saidin and is thus immune to all forms of compulsion.)

[Jon Paul]

It would have been much cooler if balefire did not work on the Eyeless because of their twisted relationship to the Pattern.

[didymos]

It would have been much cooler if balefire did not work on the Eyeless because of their twisted relationship to the Pattern.

 

I don't see why. You could make a case that they should be exempt from the thread-burn effect due to being "out of phase", but that's just one aspect of balefire (if the most useful and/or messed up aspect). It still directly destroys the actual stuff it comes into contact with, like pretty much any other "kill stuff" weave, so having myrddraal being magically immune to that aspect of it, as though they were made of cuendillar, would be kinda strange.