The Life and Times of An Aes Sedai

[Suttree]

I would like to point out that most AS stay in the tower becuase that is the best way for them to gain prestige among those they conside equals, whereas if they where out of the tower they may get respect and such but they would also be working and only be getting their due respect. This accompanied by the stated resentment/distrust of aes sedai caused them to stop leaving the tower resulting in the reduction of AS expeditions into the world.

 

There are cases that indicate that this isn't true. Look at Cadsuane. She is among the most legendary of Aes Sedai, and she actively avoided the Tower to the extent that most thought he dead. Moiraine is another example. She may be THE most legendary Aes Sedai, and she also avoided the Tower as much as possible. Staying in the Tower and playing politics may be the easiest way to build esteem with your colleagues, but I would disagree that it is the only way, or even the BEST way. I think the ones who go into the world and make their names are more respected, but their trials are greater.

 

Either way we know what Durinax is proposing is false. Most don't only stay in the WT. There may be some AS that are involved predominately with admin in the WT but the majority rotate in and out working in the world. Every sisters rooms we see have items from a long life lived out in the world....

 

TGS

Maps hung within delicate frames, centered on the walls like prized pieces of art. A pair of Aiel spears hung on either side of one map; another was a map of the Sea Folk islands. While many might have opted for the porcelain keepsakes that were so commonly associated with the Sea Folk, Meidani had a small collection of earrings and painted shells, carefully framed and displayed, along with a small plaque beneath listing dates of collection.

 

The sitting room was like a museum dedicated to one person's journeys. An Altaran marriage knife, set with four twinkling rubies, hung beside a small Cairhienin banner and a Shienar sword. Each had a small plaque explaining its significance. The marriage knife, for instance, had been presented to Meidani for her help in settling a dispute between two houses over the death of a particularly important landowner. His wife had given her the knife as a token of thanks.

 

Who would have thought that the cowering woman of the dinner a few weeks back would have such a proud collection? The rug itself was labeled, the gift of a trader who had purchased it on the closed docks of Shara, then bestowed it on Meidani in thanks for Healing his daughter. It was of strange design, woven from what seemed to be tiny, dyed reeds, with tufts of an exotic gray fur trimming the edges. The pattern depicted exotic creatures with long necks.

 

Meidani herself sat on a curious chair made from woven wicker boughs, crafted to look like a growing thicket of branches that just happened to take the shape of a chair. It would have been horribly out of place in any other room in the Tower, but it fit within these quarters, where each item was different, none of them related yet somehow all connected with the common theme of gifts received during travels.

[Sharaman]

The grays wander all over the place doing diplomatic stuff

The Browns do research - including field research - flora/ fauna, animals of the drowned lands, flying fish, etc.

The Reds try and find Saidin channelers.

The Blues and Yellows have extensive spy networks - somebody must recruit and maintain them.

The Greens patrol the borderlands

I think all the Ajahs have license to travel, though the Whites probably use it the least.

[Maleshub]

The grays wander all over the place doing diplomatic stuff

The Browns do research - including field research - flora/ fauna, animals of the drowned lands, flying fish, etc.

The Reds try and find Saidin channelers.

The Blues and Yellows have extensive spy networks - somebody must recruit and maintain them.

The Greens patrol the borderlands

I think all the Ajahs have license to travel, though the Whites probably use it the least.

 

And the White is the smallest Ajah in the WT.

[Vardar]

Of course perhaps every AS didn't stay to escort Logaine, I'm not sure how it worked.

 

I actually don't recall that being correct. You were off on the numbers so are you confident here? No biggie but would be interested in reading the quote if you have it handy.

 

Edit: As I thought, they weren't all Reds.

 

]Question[/b]

What about those Warders in Caemlyn around Logain in The Eye of the World? Didn't Moiraine say that they were all Red sisters? Reds don't have Warders!

 

Robert Jordan

 

Moiraine never mentioned the sisters escorting Logain (not all of whom were Red Ajah). The ones with Logain weren't in Caemlyn at the time. Moiraine was referring to those that were in Caemlyn. There is something explaining this in Lord of Chaos. Remember that the interleaving of plot threads goes backward as well as forward.

 

Found the quote: Eye of the world:Chapter 42" "Thank you, Loial, son of Arent," Moiraine answered dryly, "but I would not be too free with that greeting if I were you. There are perhaps twenty Aes Sedai in Caemlyn at this moment, and every one but I of the Red Ajah."

 

So yea...

[Suttree]

Of course perhaps every AS didn't stay to escort Logaine, I'm not sure how it worked.

 

I actually don't recall that being correct. You were off on the numbers so are you confident here? No biggie but would be interested in reading the quote if you have it handy.

 

Edit: As I thought, they weren't all Reds.

 

]Question[/b]

What about those Warders in Caemlyn around Logain in The Eye of the World? Didn't Moiraine say that they were all Red sisters? Reds don't have Warders!

 

Robert Jordan

 

Moiraine never mentioned the sisters escorting Logain (not all of whom were Red Ajah). The ones with Logain weren't in Caemlyn at the time. Moiraine was referring to those that were in Caemlyn. There is something explaining this in Lord of Chaos. Remember that the interleaving of plot threads goes backward as well as forward.

 

Found the quote: Eye of the world:Chapter 42" "Thank you, Loial, son of Arent," Moiraine answered dryly, "but I would not be too free with that greeting if I were you. There are perhaps twenty Aes Sedai in Caemlyn at this moment, and every one but I of the Red Ajah."

 

So yea...

 

So yeah? RJ quite clearly said Moir wasn't referring to Logains escort.

[Vardar]

Of course perhaps every AS didn't stay to escort Logaine, I'm not sure how it worked.

 

I actually don't recall that being correct. You were off on the numbers so are you confident here? No biggie but would be interested in reading the quote if you have it handy.

 

Edit: As I thought, they weren't all Reds.

 

]Question[/b]

What about those Warders in Caemlyn around Logain in The Eye of the World? Didn't Moiraine say that they were all Red sisters? Reds don't have Warders!

 

Robert Jordan

 

Moiraine never mentioned the sisters escorting Logain (not all of whom were Red Ajah). The ones with Logain weren't in Caemlyn at the time. Moiraine was referring to those that were in Caemlyn. There is something explaining this in Lord of Chaos. Remember that the interleaving of plot threads goes backward as well as forward.

 

Found the quote: Eye of the world:Chapter 42" "Thank you, Loial, son of Arent," Moiraine answered dryly, "but I would not be too free with that greeting if I were you. There are perhaps twenty Aes Sedai in Caemlyn at this moment, and every one but I of the Red Ajah."

 

So yea...

 

So yeah? RJ quite clearly said Moir wasn't referring to Logains escort.

 

That doesn't even make sense. (This isn't a dig on you before you take it personally). Yes I understand it's a "word of God situation" but the text is directly countering his quote. We know Logaine didn't leave until Elayne and Gawyn left the city, Logain was in the city at the time, Rand had just left the palace, so all the AS who had warders suddenly left, without reason, leaving only 19 or so AS, all Reds? (Not including Elaida) Who just happened to be in the city at that time, what? Chilling? Hanging out?. That's a huge stretch. (there were 12 warders with the escort)

 

Just went back to the Great Hunt

 

16 Warders, 14 AS. Each green had 2, but each Red has none. 2 sisters from each color, and the seat and keeper. So, even if every sister besides the red had 1 (Which is a stretch) and the greens have 2 each. That leads us with... 14 AS, yet there were 16 Warders? (One of those warders rode off on his own before they left Fal Dara as well, with no AS)

 

Again, more warders than the AS can account for.

 

So either, in the first two books, warders went about on their own more, or the term "Warder" was more loosely applied. Something was going on.

[Suttree]

Of course perhaps every AS didn't stay to escort Logaine, I'm not sure how it worked.

 

I actually don't recall that being correct. You were off on the numbers so are you confident here? No biggie but would be interested in reading the quote if you have it handy.

 

Edit: As I thought, they weren't all Reds.

 

]Question[/b]

What about those Warders in Caemlyn around Logain in The Eye of the World? Didn't Moiraine say that they were all Red sisters? Reds don't have Warders!

 

Robert Jordan

 

Moiraine never mentioned the sisters escorting Logain (not all of whom were Red Ajah). The ones with Logain weren't in Caemlyn at the time. Moiraine was referring to those that were in Caemlyn. There is something explaining this in Lord of Chaos. Remember that the interleaving of plot threads goes backward as well as forward.

 

Found the quote: Eye of the world:Chapter 42" "Thank you, Loial, son of Arent," Moiraine answered dryly, "but I would not be too free with that greeting if I were you. There are perhaps twenty Aes Sedai in Caemlyn at this moment, and every one but I of the Red Ajah."

 

So yea...

 

So yeah? RJ quite clearly said Moir wasn't referring to Logains escort.

 

That doesn't even make sense. (This isn't a dig on you before you take it personally). Yes I understand it's a "word of God situation" but the text is directly countering his quote. We know Logaine didn't leave until Elayne and Gawyn left the city, Logain was in the city at the time, Rand had just left the palace, so all the AS who had warders suddenly left, without reason, leaving only 19 or so AS, all Reds? (Not including Elaida) Who just happened to be in the city at that time, what? Chilling? Hanging out?. That's a huge stretch. (there were 12 warders with the escort)

 

Just went back to the Great Hunt

 

16 Warders, 14 AS. Each green had 2, but each Red has none. 2 sisters from each color, and the seat and keeper. So, even if every sister besides the red had 1 (Which is a stretch) and the greens have 2 each. That leads us with... 14 AS, yet there were 16 Warders? (One of those warders rode off on his own before they left Fal Dara as well, with no AS)

 

Again, more warders than the AS can account for.

 

So either, in the first two books, warders went about on their own more, or the term "Warder" was more loosely applied. Something was going on.

 

1. It doesn't contradict the text. We know there was that group of Reds in Caemlyn and they stayed for some time.

 

2. Why would you assume each Green only had two warders?

 

Lastly since you have joined these boards a number of times when confronted with clear evidence you pull the i refuse to believe because "it doesn't make sense" card when it quite clearly does to everyone else. At some point you just have to admit you were wrong and move on. I have seen multiple posters consistently pull quotes for you and yet you choose to ignore it when it doesn't fit what you are arguing. That's not how it works mate.

[Vardar]

Of course perhaps every AS didn't stay to escort Logaine, I'm not sure how it worked.

 

I actually don't recall that being correct. You were off on the numbers so are you confident here? No biggie but would be interested in reading the quote if you have it handy.

 

Edit: As I thought, they weren't all Reds.

 

]Question[/b]

What about those Warders in Caemlyn around Logain in The Eye of the World? Didn't Moiraine say that they were all Red sisters? Reds don't have Warders!

 

Robert Jordan

 

Moiraine never mentioned the sisters escorting Logain (not all of whom were Red Ajah). The ones with Logain weren't in Caemlyn at the time. Moiraine was referring to those that were in Caemlyn. There is something explaining this in Lord of Chaos. Remember that the interleaving of plot threads goes backward as well as forward.

 

Found the quote: Eye of the world:Chapter 42" "Thank you, Loial, son of Arent," Moiraine answered dryly, "but I would not be too free with that greeting if I were you. There are perhaps twenty Aes Sedai in Caemlyn at this moment, and every one but I of the Red Ajah."

 

So yea...

 

So yeah? RJ quite clearly said Moir wasn't referring to Logains escort.

 

That doesn't even make sense. (This isn't a dig on you before you take it personally). Yes I understand it's a "word of God situation" but the text is directly countering his quote. We know Logaine didn't leave until Elayne and Gawyn left the city, Logain was in the city at the time, Rand had just left the palace, so all the AS who had warders suddenly left, without reason, leaving only 19 or so AS, all Reds? (Not including Elaida) Who just happened to be in the city at that time, what? Chilling? Hanging out?. That's a huge stretch. (there were 12 warders with the escort)

 

Just went back to the Great Hunt

 

16 Warders, 14 AS. Each green had 2, but each Red has none. 2 sisters from each color, and the seat and keeper. So, even if every sister besides the red had 1 (Which is a stretch) and the greens have 2 each. That leads us with... 14 AS, yet there were 16 Warders? (One of those warders rode off on his own before they left Fal Dara as well, with no AS)

 

Again, more warders than the AS can account for.

 

So either, in the first two books, warders went about on their own more, or the term "Warder" was more loosely applied. Something was going on.

 

1. It doesn't contradict the text. We know there was that group of Reds in Caemlyn and they stayed for some time.

 

2. Why would you assume each Green only had two warders?

 

Lastly since you have joined these boards a number of times when confronted with clear evidence you pull the i refuse to believe because "it doesn't make sense" card when it quite clearly does to everyone else. At some point you just have to admit you were wrong and move on. I have seen multiple posters consistently pull quotes for you and yet you choose to ignore it when it doesn't fit what you are arguing. That's not how it works mate.

 

1) So we're going off the conclusion that every AS not a red left the city within hours of bringing Logain to the palace and didn't escort him to Tar Valon? Really? She gives the total number of AS in the city at the time, to her knowledge, and says they're all Reds except her. She obviously knows Logain is in the city, it's huge news. So that is a direct contridiction to the text. Without trying to explain it via off screen methods that make no sense and were never mentioned.

 

2) Because the text says so. Eggy said it when the AS left Fal Dara and made camp. The tent with the green sisters looks festive with the 4 warders they have between them.

 

I'm pulling quotes for you, direct from the text and you're disregarding them with no evidence, aside from a quote form RJ, which while may be the final word, can be wrong.

 

Moiraine never mentioned the sisters escorting Logain (not all of whom were Red Ajah). The ones with Logain weren't in Caemlyn at the time. Moiraine was referring to those that were in Caemlyn. There is something explaining this in Lord of Chaos. Remember that the interleaving of plot threads goes backward as well as forward.

1) So who was she talking about. She knew what sisters were in the city

2) Yes they were, they were at the palace, Morgrase said it, they didn't leave until Elayne left the city for the tower, it was hours after Rand left the palace the same day. Elayne didn't leave that day.

3) I'll have to find this one.

4) yes they do, but this was a direct timeline situaiton. There was no days difference or anything.

 

In short, his quote directly contridicts the text.

[Suttree]

Of course perhaps every AS didn't stay to escort Logaine, I'm not sure how it worked.

 

I actually don't recall that being correct. You were off on the numbers so are you confident here? No biggie but would be interested in reading the quote if you have it handy.

 

Edit: As I thought, they weren't all Reds.

 

]Question[/b]

What about those Warders in Caemlyn around Logain in The Eye of the World? Didn't Moiraine say that they were all Red sisters? Reds don't have Warders!

 

Robert Jordan

 

Moiraine never mentioned the sisters escorting Logain (not all of whom were Red Ajah). The ones with Logain weren't in Caemlyn at the time. Moiraine was referring to those that were in Caemlyn. There is something explaining this in Lord of Chaos. Remember that the interleaving of plot threads goes backward as well as forward.

 

Found the quote: Eye of the world:Chapter 42" "Thank you, Loial, son of Arent," Moiraine answered dryly, "but I would not be too free with that greeting if I were you. There are perhaps twenty Aes Sedai in Caemlyn at this moment, and every one but I of the Red Ajah."

 

So yea...

 

So yeah? RJ quite clearly said Moir wasn't referring to Logains escort.

 

That doesn't even make sense. (This isn't a dig on you before you take it personally). Yes I understand it's a "word of God situation" but the text is directly countering his quote. We know Logaine didn't leave until Elayne and Gawyn left the city, Logain was in the city at the time, Rand had just left the palace, so all the AS who had warders suddenly left, without reason, leaving only 19 or so AS, all Reds? (Not including Elaida) Who just happened to be in the city at that time, what? Chilling? Hanging out?. That's a huge stretch. (there were 12 warders with the escort)

 

Just went back to the Great Hunt

 

16 Warders, 14 AS. Each green had 2, but each Red has none. 2 sisters from each color, and the seat and keeper. So, even if every sister besides the red had 1 (Which is a stretch) and the greens have 2 each. That leads us with... 14 AS, yet there were 16 Warders? (One of those warders rode off on his own before they left Fal Dara as well, with no AS)

 

Again, more warders than the AS can account for.

 

So either, in the first two books, warders went about on their own more, or the term "Warder" was more loosely applied. Something was going on.

 

1. It doesn't contradict the text. We know there was that group of Reds in Caemlyn and they stayed for some time.

 

2. Why would you assume each Green only had two warders?

 

Lastly since you have joined these boards a number of times when confronted with clear evidence you pull the i refuse to believe because "it doesn't make sense" card when it quite clearly does to everyone else. At some point you just have to admit you were wrong and move on. I have seen multiple posters consistently pull quotes for you and yet you choose to ignore it when it doesn't fit what you are arguing. That's not how it works mate.

 

1) So we're going off the conclusion that every AS not a red left the city within hours of bringing Logain to the palace and didn't escort him to Tar Valon? Really? She gives the total number of AS in the city at the time, to her knowledge, and says they're all Reds except her. She obviously knows Logain is in the city, it's huge news. So that is a direct contridiction to the text. Without trying to explain it via off screen methods that make no sense and were never mentioned.

 

2) Because the text says so. Eggy said it when the AS left Fal Dara and made camp. The tent with the green sisters looks festive with the 4 warders they have between them.

 

I'm pulling quotes for you, direct from the text and you're disregarding them with no evidence, aside from a quote form RJ, which while may be the final word, can be wrong.

 

Moiraine never mentioned the sisters escorting Logain (not all of whom were Red Ajah). The ones with Logain weren't in Caemlyn at the time. Moiraine was referring to those that were in Caemlyn. There is something explaining this in Lord of Chaos. Remember that the interleaving of plot threads goes backward as well as forward.

1) So who was she talking about. She knew what sisters were in the city

2) Yes they were, they were at the palace, Morgrase said it, they didn't leave until Elayne left the city for the tower, it was hours after Rand left the palace the same day. Elayne didn't leave that day.

3) I'll have to find this one.

4) yes they do, but this was a direct timeline situaiton. There was no days difference or anything.

 

In short, his quote directly contridicts the text.

 

There was the group that escorted Logain and there also is a group of all Red sisters that stayed in Caemlyn and are mentioned later in LoC. That is the group Moiriane is referrring. So comedy that whe have a clear explanation from the author on the exact issue we are discussing and I am the one ignoring evidence?

 

Also you said you have pulled quotes? I have seen one for Moir which has been explained away, I would have to see the Eggy quote to comment on it. I do know however that since you more than doubled the amount of warders that were actually guarding Logain in your first post I am somewhat skeptical on how you are reaching your numbers.

[Vardar]

Of course perhaps every AS didn't stay to escort Logaine, I'm not sure how it worked.

 

I actually don't recall that being correct. You were off on the numbers so are you confident here? No biggie but would be interested in reading the quote if you have it handy.

 

Edit: As I thought, they weren't all Reds.

 

]Question[/b]

What about those Warders in Caemlyn around Logain in The Eye of the World? Didn't Moiraine say that they were all Red sisters? Reds don't have Warders!

 

Robert Jordan

 

Moiraine never mentioned the sisters escorting Logain (not all of whom were Red Ajah). The ones with Logain weren't in Caemlyn at the time. Moiraine was referring to those that were in Caemlyn. There is something explaining this in Lord of Chaos. Remember that the interleaving of plot threads goes backward as well as forward.

 

Found the quote: Eye of the world:Chapter 42" "Thank you, Loial, son of Arent," Moiraine answered dryly, "but I would not be too free with that greeting if I were you. There are perhaps twenty Aes Sedai in Caemlyn at this moment, and every one but I of the Red Ajah."

 

So yea...

 

So yeah? RJ quite clearly said Moir wasn't referring to Logains escort.

 

That doesn't even make sense. (This isn't a dig on you before you take it personally). Yes I understand it's a "word of God situation" but the text is directly countering his quote. We know Logaine didn't leave until Elayne and Gawyn left the city, Logain was in the city at the time, Rand had just left the palace, so all the AS who had warders suddenly left, without reason, leaving only 19 or so AS, all Reds? (Not including Elaida) Who just happened to be in the city at that time, what? Chilling? Hanging out?. That's a huge stretch. (there were 12 warders with the escort)

 

Just went back to the Great Hunt

 

16 Warders, 14 AS. Each green had 2, but each Red has none. 2 sisters from each color, and the seat and keeper. So, even if every sister besides the red had 1 (Which is a stretch) and the greens have 2 each. That leads us with... 14 AS, yet there were 16 Warders? (One of those warders rode off on his own before they left Fal Dara as well, with no AS)

 

Again, more warders than the AS can account for.

 

So either, in the first two books, warders went about on their own more, or the term "Warder" was more loosely applied. Something was going on.

 

1. It doesn't contradict the text. We know there was that group of Reds in Caemlyn and they stayed for some time.

 

2. Why would you assume each Green only had two warders?

 

Lastly since you have joined these boards a number of times when confronted with clear evidence you pull the i refuse to believe because "it doesn't make sense" card when it quite clearly does to everyone else. At some point you just have to admit you were wrong and move on. I have seen multiple posters consistently pull quotes for you and yet you choose to ignore it when it doesn't fit what you are arguing. That's not how it works mate.

 

1) So we're going off the conclusion that every AS not a red left the city within hours of bringing Logain to the palace and didn't escort him to Tar Valon? Really? She gives the total number of AS in the city at the time, to her knowledge, and says they're all Reds except her. She obviously knows Logain is in the city, it's huge news. So that is a direct contridiction to the text. Without trying to explain it via off screen methods that make no sense and were never mentioned.

 

2) Because the text says so. Eggy said it when the AS left Fal Dara and made camp. The tent with the green sisters looks festive with the 4 warders they have between them.

 

I'm pulling quotes for you, direct from the text and you're disregarding them with no evidence, aside from a quote form RJ, which while may be the final word, can be wrong.

 

Moiraine never mentioned the sisters escorting Logain (not all of whom were Red Ajah). The ones with Logain weren't in Caemlyn at the time. Moiraine was referring to those that were in Caemlyn. There is something explaining this in Lord of Chaos. Remember that the interleaving of plot threads goes backward as well as forward.

1) So who was she talking about. She knew what sisters were in the city

2) Yes they were, they were at the palace, Morgrase said it, they didn't leave until Elayne left the city for the tower, it was hours after Rand left the palace the same day. Elayne didn't leave that day.

3) I'll have to find this one.

4) yes they do, but this was a direct timeline situaiton. There was no days difference or anything.

 

In short, his quote directly contridicts the text.

 

There was the group that escorted Logain and there also is a group of all Red sisters that stayed in Caemlyn and are mentioned later in LoC. That is the group Moiriane is referrring. So comedy that whe have a clear explanation from the author on the exact issue we are discussing and I am the one ignoring evidence?

 

Also you said you have pulled quotes? I have seen one for Moir which has been explained away, I would have to see the Eggy quote to comment on it. I do know however that since you more than doubled the amount of warders that were actually guarding Logain in your first post I am somewhat skeptical on how you are reaching your numbers.

 

More than doubled? I said near 20, they had a dozen, that's well less than double, not more than double.

 

That being said, comedy? Huh? the point was the evidence made no sense, in the context. She doesn't say, there are more than 20 AS, or 20+ AS, she says there are about 20 AS in the city, which means she knows how many there are. But of course, you won't see that. She's speaking in definites, which you love to do, so I don't know why you don't see it. Either she doesn't know about a HUGE event in the city, which has the entire city abuzz or she's lying for some reason, neither of which makes sense.

 

Anyway,

 

"Camps came late each night, the Amyrlin allowing no stop until barely enough lift remaned to pitch the tents, flattened white domes just all enough to stand in. Each pair of Aes Sedai from the same Ajah had one, while the Amyrlin and the Keeper had tents to themselves. Moiraine shared the ten of her two sisters of the Blue. The soldiers slept on the ground in their own encampment and the Warders wrapped themselves in their cloaks near the tents of the Aes Sedai to whom they were bonded. The tent shared by the Red Sisters looked oddly lonely without any Warders, while that of the Greens seemed almost festive, the two Aes Sedai often sitting outside long past dark to talk with the four Warders they had brought between them.”

 

Furthermore we know allana was there, and she has 2. Until 1 died. So there ya go.

[dexterryu]

 

 

How Can So Many Women Be So Damn Stupid?

 

 

 

I'm rather new to this thread, but I figured I might be able to end the debate. I saw this question posed in the original post, and I feel that this question sort of answers itself as well as solves the debate.

[Suttree]

Of course perhaps every AS didn't stay to escort Logaine, I'm not sure how it worked.

 

I actually don't recall that being correct. You were off on the numbers so are you confident here? No biggie but would be interested in reading the quote if you have it handy.

 

Edit: As I thought, they weren't all Reds.

 

]Question[/b]

What about those Warders in Caemlyn around Logain in The Eye of the World? Didn't Moiraine say that they were all Red sisters? Reds don't have Warders!

 

Robert Jordan

 

Moiraine never mentioned the sisters escorting Logain (not all of whom were Red Ajah). The ones with Logain weren't in Caemlyn at the time. Moiraine was referring to those that were in Caemlyn. There is something explaining this in Lord of Chaos. Remember that the interleaving of plot threads goes backward as well as forward.

 

Found the quote: Eye of the world:Chapter 42" "Thank you, Loial, son of Arent," Moiraine answered dryly, "but I would not be too free with that greeting if I were you. There are perhaps twenty Aes Sedai in Caemlyn at this moment, and every one but I of the Red Ajah."

 

So yea...

 

So yeah? RJ quite clearly said Moir wasn't referring to Logains escort.

 

That doesn't even make sense. (This isn't a dig on you before you take it personally). Yes I understand it's a "word of God situation" but the text is directly countering his quote. We know Logaine didn't leave until Elayne and Gawyn left the city, Logain was in the city at the time, Rand had just left the palace, so all the AS who had warders suddenly left, without reason, leaving only 19 or so AS, all Reds? (Not including Elaida) Who just happened to be in the city at that time, what? Chilling? Hanging out?. That's a huge stretch. (there were 12 warders with the escort)

 

Just went back to the Great Hunt

 

16 Warders, 14 AS. Each green had 2, but each Red has none. 2 sisters from each color, and the seat and keeper. So, even if every sister besides the red had 1 (Which is a stretch) and the greens have 2 each. That leads us with... 14 AS, yet there were 16 Warders? (One of those warders rode off on his own before they left Fal Dara as well, with no AS)

 

Again, more warders than the AS can account for.

 

So either, in the first two books, warders went about on their own more, or the term "Warder" was more loosely applied. Something was going on.

 

1. It doesn't contradict the text. We know there was that group of Reds in Caemlyn and they stayed for some time.

 

2. Why would you assume each Green only had two warders?

 

Lastly since you have joined these boards a number of times when confronted with clear evidence you pull the i refuse to believe because "it doesn't make sense" card when it quite clearly does to everyone else. At some point you just have to admit you were wrong and move on. I have seen multiple posters consistently pull quotes for you and yet you choose to ignore it when it doesn't fit what you are arguing. That's not how it works mate.

 

1) So we're going off the conclusion that every AS not a red left the city within hours of bringing Logain to the palace and didn't escort him to Tar Valon? Really? She gives the total number of AS in the city at the time, to her knowledge, and says they're all Reds except her. She obviously knows Logain is in the city, it's huge news. So that is a direct contridiction to the text. Without trying to explain it via off screen methods that make no sense and were never mentioned.

 

2) Because the text says so. Eggy said it when the AS left Fal Dara and made camp. The tent with the green sisters looks festive with the 4 warders they have between them.

 

I'm pulling quotes for you, direct from the text and you're disregarding them with no evidence, aside from a quote form RJ, which while may be the final word, can be wrong.

 

Moiraine never mentioned the sisters escorting Logain (not all of whom were Red Ajah). The ones with Logain weren't in Caemlyn at the time. Moiraine was referring to those that were in Caemlyn. There is something explaining this in Lord of Chaos. Remember that the interleaving of plot threads goes backward as well as forward.

1) So who was she talking about. She knew what sisters were in the city

2) Yes they were, they were at the palace, Morgrase said it, they didn't leave until Elayne left the city for the tower, it was hours after Rand left the palace the same day. Elayne didn't leave that day.

3) I'll have to find this one.

4) yes they do, but this was a direct timeline situaiton. There was no days difference or anything.

 

In short, his quote directly contridicts the text.

 

There was the group that escorted Logain and there also is a group of all Red sisters that stayed in Caemlyn and are mentioned later in LoC. That is the group Moiriane is referrring. So comedy that whe have a clear explanation from the author on the exact issue we are discussing and I am the one ignoring evidence?

 

Also you said you have pulled quotes? I have seen one for Moir which has been explained away, I would have to see the Eggy quote to comment on it. I do know however that since you more than doubled the amount of warders that were actually guarding Logain in your first post I am somewhat skeptical on how you are reaching your numbers.

 

More than doubled? I said near 20, they had a dozen, that's well less than double, not more than double.

 

That being said, comedy? Huh? the point was the evidence made no sense, in the context. She doesn't say, there are more than 20 AS, or 20+ AS, she says there are about 20 AS in the city, which means she knows how many there are. But of course, you won't see that. She's speaking in definites, which you love to do, so I don't know why you don't see it. Either she doesn't know about a HUGE event in the city, which has the entire city abuzz or she's lying for some reason, neither of which makes sense.

 

Anyway,

 

"Camps came late each night, the Amyrlin allowing no stop until barely enough lift remaned to pitch the tents, flattened white domes just all enough to stand in. Each pair of Aes Sedai from the same Ajah had one, while the Amyrlin and the Keeper had tents to themselves. Moiraine shared the ten of her two sisters of the Blue. The soldiers slept on the ground in their own encampment and the Warders wrapped themselves in their cloaks near the tents of the Aes Sedai to whom they were bonded. The tent shared by the Red Sisters looked oddly lonely without any Warders, while that of the Greens seemed almost festive, the two Aes Sedai often sitting outside long past dark to talk with the four Warders they had brought between them.”

 

Furthermore we know allana was there, and she has 2. Until 1 died. So there ya go.

 

Does you splitting hairs change that you got it wrong in regards to the escort? Secondly not sure what part of there being two seperate groups you having trouble with? In addition since when is "perhaps" speaking in definites? You can keep insisitng you know better than RJ all you want but all it does is make people roll their eyes. We have word of God on this. We have word of God on Greens guarding the blight. End of.

 

As for your last point still not sure what you are trying to prove? Do we know the exact breakdown of Ajahs within the group? Even if the numbers are a bit short so what if two extra warders were sent on a mission for a brief period of time? Again we know there are much higher numbers of AS stationed with the borderland rulers than in other places. Either way it still does very little to prove your assertion that there are large numbes of warders acting inedependtly in the early books. I will grant you there are a number of "early bookisms" that he later fazed out I just don't see this being one of them. Also not sure why you are so intent on proving this particular point as it relates to the overall discussion?

 

Edit: For the record I do admire your tenacity and willingness to go back and pull quotes. It makes a big difference when debating points...

[Vardar]

Of course perhaps every AS didn't stay to escort Logaine, I'm not sure how it worked.

 

I actually don't recall that being correct. You were off on the numbers so are you confident here? No biggie but would be interested in reading the quote if you have it handy.

 

Edit: As I thought, they weren't all Reds.

 

]Question[/b]

What about those Warders in Caemlyn around Logain in The Eye of the World? Didn't Moiraine say that they were all Red sisters? Reds don't have Warders!

 

Robert Jordan

 

Moiraine never mentioned the sisters escorting Logain (not all of whom were Red Ajah). The ones with Logain weren't in Caemlyn at the time. Moiraine was referring to those that were in Caemlyn. There is something explaining this in Lord of Chaos. Remember that the interleaving of plot threads goes backward as well as forward.

 

Found the quote: Eye of the world:Chapter 42" "Thank you, Loial, son of Arent," Moiraine answered dryly, "but I would not be too free with that greeting if I were you. There are perhaps twenty Aes Sedai in Caemlyn at this moment, and every one but I of the Red Ajah."

 

So yea...

 

So yeah? RJ quite clearly said Moir wasn't referring to Logains escort.

 

That doesn't even make sense. (This isn't a dig on you before you take it personally). Yes I understand it's a "word of God situation" but the text is directly countering his quote. We know Logaine didn't leave until Elayne and Gawyn left the city, Logain was in the city at the time, Rand had just left the palace, so all the AS who had warders suddenly left, without reason, leaving only 19 or so AS, all Reds? (Not including Elaida) Who just happened to be in the city at that time, what? Chilling? Hanging out?. That's a huge stretch. (there were 12 warders with the escort)

 

Just went back to the Great Hunt

 

16 Warders, 14 AS. Each green had 2, but each Red has none. 2 sisters from each color, and the seat and keeper. So, even if every sister besides the red had 1 (Which is a stretch) and the greens have 2 each. That leads us with... 14 AS, yet there were 16 Warders? (One of those warders rode off on his own before they left Fal Dara as well, with no AS)

 

Again, more warders than the AS can account for.

 

So either, in the first two books, warders went about on their own more, or the term "Warder" was more loosely applied. Something was going on.

 

1. It doesn't contradict the text. We know there was that group of Reds in Caemlyn and they stayed for some time.

 

2. Why would you assume each Green only had two warders?

 

Lastly since you have joined these boards a number of times when confronted with clear evidence you pull the i refuse to believe because "it doesn't make sense" card when it quite clearly does to everyone else. At some point you just have to admit you were wrong and move on. I have seen multiple posters consistently pull quotes for you and yet you choose to ignore it when it doesn't fit what you are arguing. That's not how it works mate.

 

1) So we're going off the conclusion that every AS not a red left the city within hours of bringing Logain to the palace and didn't escort him to Tar Valon? Really? She gives the total number of AS in the city at the time, to her knowledge, and says they're all Reds except her. She obviously knows Logain is in the city, it's huge news. So that is a direct contridiction to the text. Without trying to explain it via off screen methods that make no sense and were never mentioned.

 

2) Because the text says so. Eggy said it when the AS left Fal Dara and made camp. The tent with the green sisters looks festive with the 4 warders they have between them.

 

I'm pulling quotes for you, direct from the text and you're disregarding them with no evidence, aside from a quote form RJ, which while may be the final word, can be wrong.

 

Moiraine never mentioned the sisters escorting Logain (not all of whom were Red Ajah). The ones with Logain weren't in Caemlyn at the time. Moiraine was referring to those that were in Caemlyn. There is something explaining this in Lord of Chaos. Remember that the interleaving of plot threads goes backward as well as forward.

1) So who was she talking about. She knew what sisters were in the city

2) Yes they were, they were at the palace, Morgrase said it, they didn't leave until Elayne left the city for the tower, it was hours after Rand left the palace the same day. Elayne didn't leave that day.

3) I'll have to find this one.

4) yes they do, but this was a direct timeline situaiton. There was no days difference or anything.

 

In short, his quote directly contridicts the text.

 

There was the group that escorted Logain and there also is a group of all Red sisters that stayed in Caemlyn and are mentioned later in LoC. That is the group Moiriane is referrring. So comedy that whe have a clear explanation from the author on the exact issue we are discussing and I am the one ignoring evidence?

 

Also you said you have pulled quotes? I have seen one for Moir which has been explained away, I would have to see the Eggy quote to comment on it. I do know however that since you more than doubled the amount of warders that were actually guarding Logain in your first post I am somewhat skeptical on how you are reaching your numbers.

 

More than doubled? I said near 20, they had a dozen, that's well less than double, not more than double.

 

That being said, comedy? Huh? the point was the evidence made no sense, in the context. She doesn't say, there are more than 20 AS, or 20+ AS, she says there are about 20 AS in the city, which means she knows how many there are. But of course, you won't see that. She's speaking in definites, which you love to do, so I don't know why you don't see it. Either she doesn't know about a HUGE event in the city, which has the entire city abuzz or she's lying for some reason, neither of which makes sense.

 

Anyway,

 

"Camps came late each night, the Amyrlin allowing no stop until barely enough lift remaned to pitch the tents, flattened white domes just all enough to stand in. Each pair of Aes Sedai from the same Ajah had one, while the Amyrlin and the Keeper had tents to themselves. Moiraine shared the ten of her two sisters of the Blue. The soldiers slept on the ground in their own encampment and the Warders wrapped themselves in their cloaks near the tents of the Aes Sedai to whom they were bonded. The tent shared by the Red Sisters looked oddly lonely without any Warders, while that of the Greens seemed almost festive, the two Aes Sedai often sitting outside long past dark to talk with the four Warders they had brought between them.”

 

Furthermore we know allana was there, and she has 2. Until 1 died. So there ya go.

 

Does you splitting hairs change that you got it wrong in regards to the escort? Secondly not sure what part of there being two seperate groups you having trouble with? In addition since when is "perhaps" speaking in definites? You can keep insisitng you know better than RJ all you want but all it does is make people roll their eyes. We have word of God on this. We have word of God on Greens guarding the blight. End of.

 

As for your last point still not sure what you are trying to prove? Do we know the exact breakdown of Ajahs within the group? Even if the numbers are a bit short so what if two extra warders were sent on a mission for a brief period of time? Again we know there are much higher numbers of AS stationed with the borderland rulers than in other places. Either way it still does very little to prove your assertion that there are large numbes of warders acting inedependtly in the early books. I will grant you there are a number of "early bookisms" that he later fazed out I just don't see this being one of them. Also not sure why you are so intent on proving this particular point as it relates to the overall discussion?

 

Edit: For the record I do admire your tenacity and willingness to go back and pull quotes. It makes a big difference when debating points...

 

Splitting hairs? Less than double and more than double are two very different numbers. That's not splitting hairs.

 

yes we know the breakdown, the Seat told Moraine 2 from each Ajah, because the Sitters tried to make her leave the two blues at the Tower, because She and her keeper used to be blue.

 

I'm not claiming to know better than anyone, I'm saying it's obvious via the text, that the original definition of Warders wasn't concrete in the first book or so. Warders came off as AS trained, or affliated men. They were frequently not directly associated with AS for some reason, or off on their own. So your whole Warders in the blight implying AS were with them would be wrong, given the current context.

 

Also, creator of the book or not, we all forget things (unless you have an eclectic memory) so perhaps he got this wrong.

 

Two different groups (you keep harping on that) but she didn't say most of the AS in the city, she gave an exact numbers of AS in the city currently, and what their colors were. having two groups only makes sense if she doesn't know about Logain's guards, which makes no sense at all. (I know you have that term, deny it all you want, why would she not know about that. In fact, i just checked back, Moraine heard Rand's story, she knew about Logain being in the city, so she knew about those AS.

 

So again, text directly contridicts.

 

Actually my point is just that the "word of God" can contridict the text, and your belittiling of that guys theory, and then being rude to me when I pointed it out and calling me wrong over and over again, wasn't warrented.

 

Do you need quotes for Moraines meeting with Suain and the break down of AS in the party, and quotes for Moraine knowing about Logain being in the city and thus she knew about those AS? I have the quotes with me if you require them and can't remember.

 

 

Although mostly I just enjoy debating, you're pretty good at it.

[Suttree]

Two different groups (you keep harping on that) but she didn't say most of the AS in the city, she gave an exact numbers of AS in the city currently, and what their colors were. having two groups only makes sense if she doesn't know about Logain's guards, which makes no sense at all. (I know you have that term, deny it all you want, why would she not know about that. In fact, i just checked back, Moraine heard Rand's story, she knew about Logain being in the city, so she knew about those AS.

 

My point is RJ said Logains group are no longer in the city. Two seperate groups and the mysterious group of reds is mentioned much later on in the series as stil being there. As he said the explanation is in LoC that ties so unless you are claiming it was a retcon of some sort not sure where you see the mistake?

 

Robert Jordan

 

Moiraine never mentioned the sisters escorting Logain (not all of whom were Red Ajah). The ones with Logain weren't in Caemlyn at the time. Moiraine was referring to those that were in Caemlyn. There is something explaining this in Lord of Chaos. Remember that the interleaving of plot threads goes backward as well as forward.

[Vardar]

Two different groups (you keep harping on that) but she didn't say most of the AS in the city, she gave an exact numbers of AS in the city currently, and what their colors were. having two groups only makes sense if she doesn't know about Logain's guards, which makes no sense at all. (I know you have that term, deny it all you want, why would she not know about that. In fact, i just checked back, Moraine heard Rand's story, she knew about Logain being in the city, so she knew about those AS.

 

My point is RJ said Logains group are no longer in the city. Two seperate groups and the mysterious group of reds is mentioned much later on in the series as stil being there. As he said the explanation is in LoC that ties so unless you are claiming it was a retcon of some sort not sure where you see the mistake?

 

But the text explains they were still in the city! It was the same day Rand went to the Palace. I can't quote the entire chapter, but Moraine arrived in the city while Rand was at the palace, with Elayne and Gawyn, so Logain was still in the city. hence, her comment that was made after Rand got back, still that evening was the same day he was in the Palace, Logain didn't have time to leave the city yet, edspecially since he was leaving with Gaywyn and Elayne.

 

And the text says he's leving for TV in 2 days. That quote I'll provide:

 

"What chance is this" she said. "Today the unbeliever is brought into Caemlyn. In two days he will be taken north to Tar Valon, and with him goes the Daughter-Heir for her training.

 

 

In the text sir.

[Suttree]

Two different groups (you keep harping on that) but she didn't say most of the AS in the city, she gave an exact numbers of AS in the city currently, and what their colors were. having two groups only makes sense if she doesn't know about Logain's guards, which makes no sense at all. (I know you have that term, deny it all you want, why would she not know about that. In fact, i just checked back, Moraine heard Rand's story, she knew about Logain being in the city, so she knew about those AS.

 

My point is RJ said Logains group are no longer in the city. Two seperate groups and the mysterious group of reds is mentioned much later on in the series as stil being there. As he said the explanation is in LoC that ties so unless you are claiming it was a retcon of some sort not sure where you see the mistake?

 

But the text explains they were still in the city! It was the same day Rand went to the Palace. I can't quote the entire chapter, but Moraine arrived in the city while Rand was at the palace, with Elayne and Gawyn, so Logain was still in the city. hence, her comment that was made after Rand got back, still that evening was the same day he was in the Palace, Logain didn't have time to leave the city yet, edspecially since he was leaving with Gaywyn and Elayne.

 

And the text says he's leving for TV in 2 days. That quote I'll provide:

 

"What chance is this" she said. "Today the unbeliever is brought into Caemlyn. In two days he will be taken north to Tar Valon, and with him goes the Daughter-Heir for her training.

 

 

In the text sir.

 

We know it was a mixed group of AS as Cads was the ring leader and it was mentioned elsewhere. RJ was asked specifically about the point and gave the answer above. I have honestly have no recollection on the particulars of how or where Logain was being held. Someone should ask BS if they are really interested but I accept RJ's answer. Again you have to remember that "the interleaving of plot threads goes backward as well as forward."

[Vardar]

Two different groups (you keep harping on that) but she didn't say most of the AS in the city, she gave an exact numbers of AS in the city currently, and what their colors were. having two groups only makes sense if she doesn't know about Logain's guards, which makes no sense at all. (I know you have that term, deny it all you want, why would she not know about that. In fact, i just checked back, Moraine heard Rand's story, she knew about Logain being in the city, so she knew about those AS.

 

My point is RJ said Logains group are no longer in the city. Two seperate groups and the mysterious group of reds is mentioned much later on in the series as stil being there. As he said the explanation is in LoC that ties so unless you are claiming it was a retcon of some sort not sure where you see the mistake?

 

But the text explains they were still in the city! It was the same day Rand went to the Palace. I can't quote the entire chapter, but Moraine arrived in the city while Rand was at the palace, with Elayne and Gawyn, so Logain was still in the city. hence, her comment that was made after Rand got back, still that evening was the same day he was in the Palace, Logain didn't have time to leave the city yet, edspecially since he was leaving with Gaywyn and Elayne.

 

And the text says he's leving for TV in 2 days. That quote I'll provide:

 

"What chance is this" she said. "Today the unbeliever is brought into Caemlyn. In two days he will be taken north to Tar Valon, and with him goes the Daughter-Heir for her training.

 

 

In the text sir.

 

We know it was a mixed group of AS as Cads was the ring leader and it was mentioned elsewhere. RJ was asked specifically about the point and gave the answer above. I have honestly have no recollection on the particulars of how or where Logain was being held. Someone should ask BS if they are really interested but I accept RJ's answer. Again you have to remember that "the interleaving of plot threads goes backward as well as forward."

 

I know that, but this particular plot line was singular. It was all one day, one afternoon really. Eliada made that statement to Rand in the afternoon, he went back to the Queen's blessing, and a few hours later Moraine shows up. There's no night between, or anything. It's all one day.

 

Maybe all the non reds left, like Cads apparently did?

[XoMeltdownoX]

To Vard: Are you assuming that Logain's procession stayed in the city? In the palace? I do not remember it exactly, but I thought Logain was paraded around, presented to the Queen, then led outside the city walls. There they remained until Elayne and Co. left for TV. I cannot believe Morgase would allow Logain to remain in the city regardless of how well guarded he was.

 

If I am correct, than the procession would have been outside the city by the time Moiraine speaks to Loial. If I am wrong, you have your continuity error.

[Vardar]

To Vard: Are you assuming that Logain's procession stayed in the city? In the palace? I do not remember it exactly, but I thought Logain was paraded around, presented to the Queen, then led outside the city walls. There they remained until Elayne and Co. left for TV. I cannot believe Morgase would allow Logain to remain in the city regardless of how well guarded he was.

 

If I am correct, than the procession would have been outside the city by the time Moiraine speaks to Loial. If I am wrong, you have your continuity error.

 

They went insie the palace gates. There was never mention of a progression back outside the gates. I'd assume he'd stay inside the palace, if not for security reasons (why would you make it easier for his army to free him, not to mention moving him around so much when you have a jail at the palace to store him in that's safer than anywhere, plus the whitecloaks outside the city?) then for the simple reason of offering so many AS rooms at the palace, as would be expected.

 

Oh it's a continuity error, as the first warder count from Eye of the World was too. It makes me curious as to what he intended Warders to be when he began writing the books.

[Suttree]

To Vard: Are you assuming that Logain's procession stayed in the city? In the palace? I do not remember it exactly, but I thought Logain was paraded around, presented to the Queen, then led outside the city walls. There they remained until Elayne and Co. left for TV. I cannot believe Morgase would allow Logain to remain in the city regardless of how well guarded he was.

 

If I am correct, than the procession would have been outside the city by the time Moiraine speaks to Loial. If I am wrong, you have your continuity error.

 

They went insie the palace gates. There was never mention of a progression back outside the gates. I'd assume he'd stay inside the palace, if not for security reasons (why would you make it easier for his army to free him, not to mention moving him around so much when you have a jail at the palace to store him in that's safer than anywhere, plus the whitecloaks outside the city?) then for the simple reason of offering so many AS rooms at the palace, as would be expected.

 

Oh it's a continuity error, as the first warder count from Eye of the World was too. It makes me curious as to what he intended Warders to be when he began writing the books.

 

Again I don't know much about how he was held but what Xo says makes sense. We know Logain's army was not chasing him into Andor for a rescue attempt in any case.

[Vardar]

Just reread the section again. The only clue is that Mograse saw Logain in the palace, up close under guard, caged. They do call Rand a potential follower of Logain, so they understand his followers may be following. Why would they put him outside the city away from the cells availble in the palace? That's assuming a lot and adding a lot of unwritten stuff to the text.

[Suttree]

Just reread the section again. The only clue is that Mograse saw Logain in the palace, up close under guard, caged. They do call Rand a potential follower of Logain, so they understand his followers may be following. Why would they put him outside the city away from the cells availble in the palace? That's assuming a lot and adding a lot of unwritten stuff to the text.

 

I was talking about Logains army that rampaged through Ghealdean and was pushing for Tear. They obviously were not following into Andor as a massive war would have followed...

[XoMeltdownoX]

Just reread the section again. The only clue is that Mograse saw Logain in the palace, up close under guard, caged. They do call Rand a potential follower of Logain, so they understand his followers may be following. Why would they put him outside the city away from the cells availble in the palace? That's assuming a lot and adding a lot of unwritten stuff to the text.

Good point. You would have to ask BS if you want to solve this.

[thisguy]

How about Taim. When he was broken out of prison wasn't he being held in a Saldean city? It's possible that he was and was still not held in Caemlyn but who knows....

[Vardar]

Just reread the section again. The only clue is that Mograse saw Logain in the palace, up close under guard, caged. They do call Rand a potential follower of Logain, so they understand his followers may be following. Why would they put him outside the city away from the cells availble in the palace? That's assuming a lot and adding a lot of unwritten stuff to the text.

 

I was talking about Logains army that rampaged through Ghealdean and was pushing for Tear. They obviously were not following into Andor as a massive war would have followed...

 

Part of the Army was still a concern at least, unless the guard was just for him. It still hard to say they'd take him from a protected place to one outside the city, with no suggestion of it at all. But I see what you're saying. The most logical conclusion is RJ made a mistake, or changed his mind.

Just reread the section again. The only clue is that Mograse saw Logain in the palace, up close under guard, caged. They do call Rand a potential follower of Logain, so they understand his followers may be following. Why would they put him outside the city away from the cells availble in the palace? That's assuming a lot and adding a lot of unwritten stuff to the text.

Good point. You would have to ask BS if you want to solve this.

 

You're right. Wonder how to submit a question to him. If he comes back to my town for a book signing, I'll make sure to ask him.