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Elayne vent your spleen!


Mardy
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I have read a fair few posts and i get the impression that alot of people dont like Elayne to put it mildly, i read alot of 'she needs to die!' sort of thing. I think im in a pretty small minority here because i actually thinks shes quite endearing. yeah she dose some pretty foolish stuff and she takes some pretty foolish chances but her heart is in the right place. And its not like she is the only female character in the book to be completly ungreatful for a rescue or some help so why here and not Egwene, Nynaeve or basically anyone in the white tower there all like that tbh. So i want to know specifically why Elayne is more hated that anyone apart from maybe Faile?

 

I can see how people could find here annoying but why do so many want her to die off i think that would be sad  :'(

 

 

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Hi all,

 

Long time reader. First time caller.  I just had to register today to say I hate this girl so much.  She thought having a female warder was way cooler than it really was.  We all read the events leading to a female warder and I'm sure most of us enjoyed the story.  But hearing her tell it again tounge in cheek thinking she was the coolest made me hate her.

 

Having said that I don't want her to die.  Part of what makes me like Matt so much is how he responds to crazy women like the daughter heir.  But let's be honest there are not many people in real life as crazy as her.

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Honestly just how many times has that girl been drugged or in some way captured just due to being arrogant and up herself.

 

More characters have been killed for her stupidity over and over again than anyone I can even think of.

 

Also the bargain she reached with the windfinders to use the bowl of the winds, has annoyed me since it happened. I mean it is the one thing which has continued to annoy me greatly beyond all other things in the book. The Wind Finders wanted the bowl of the winds and it was clear they would have done anything to get it. Fixing the weather helped everyone, their was simply no need to give them all the other things. So basically I strongly dislike her for being a crap negotiator, a moody bint and continually thinking she knows better than everyone else and not caring if people have to die to save her each time she turns out to be wrong.

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Elayne only really annoyed me when she caused Vandene's and Sareitha's deaths, along with all the men who got balefired trying to rescue her. She already knew that either Careane, Sareitha, or Merilille killed Adeleas and was Black Ajah. But she still brings Careane and Sareitha along to capture other Black sisters and never gives a thought that the unrevealed Black sister would most likely betray her.

 

Elayne could easily have brought some Kin along and used them to link with. Instead her thoughtless plan got everyone killed, and she didn't even feel guilty about it afterwards. Compare that with Nynaeve who was utterly devastated when Birgitte got ripped out of Tel'aran'rhiod. (Not saying Elayne should have moped for weeks, but show SOME guilt and responsibility for your actions.)

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Honestly just how many times has that girl been drugged or in some way captured just due to being arrogant and up herself.

 

More characters have been killed for her stupidity over and over again than anyone I can even think of.

 

Also the bargain she reached with the windfinders to use the bowl of the winds, has annoyed me since it happened. I mean it is the one thing which has continued to annoy me greatly beyond all other things in the book. The Wind Finders wanted the bowl of the winds and it was clear they would have done anything to get it. Fixing the weather helped everyone, their was simply no need to give them all the other things. So basically I strongly dislike her for being a crap negotiator, a moody bint and continually thinking she knows better than everyone else and not caring if people have to die to save her each time she turns out to be wrong.

 

Im pretty certain that arrogance and stupidity are not exclusive to her, i would say its pretty much a running theme with all the characters especially those who can channel. there are a few exceptions to this but i take your point about a lack of remorse in getting people into shit

 

Elayne only really annoyed me when she caused Vandene's and Sareitha's deaths, along with all the men who got balefired trying to rescue her. She already knew that either Careane, Sareitha, or Merilille killed Adeleas and was Black Ajah. But she still brings Careane and Sareitha along to capture other Black sisters and never gives a thought that the unrevealed Black sister would most likely betray her.

 

Elayne could easily have brought some Kin along and used them to link with. Instead her thoughtless plan got everyone killed, and she didn't even feel guilty about it afterwards. Compare that with Nynaeve who was utterly devastated when Birgitte got ripped out of Tel'aran'rhiod. (Not saying Elayne should have moped for weeks, but show SOME guilt and responsibility for your actions.)

 

Lack of remorse again i find this interseting, and it has given me a new perspective that i will look for in the reread im currently doing just finished tEotW  :)

 

but surley there is a defense to this seaming lack of remorse; what good would it do anyone? i cant remember if she made the same mistake twice once she messed up really badly if she did then it would certainly give alot of creedence to your argument but if she learned from them then thats all she can do

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Its because Elayne treats everyone like their nothing and she is something. Mostly its because of her experiences with Mat in Ebou Dar and how she basically treated him like she was watching out for him and without her he would be up to all sorts of mischief. In fact, that entire book has me gritting my teeth because of her constant need to undermine him. And this is after she had only met him a handful of times. If it weren't for Birgitte, those Ebou Dar scenes would have been painful :P

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Elayne only really annoyed me when she caused Vandene's and Sareitha's deaths, along with all the men who got balefired trying to rescue her. She already knew that either Careane, Sareitha, or Merilille killed Adeleas and was Black Ajah. But she still brings Careane and Sareitha along to capture other Black sisters and never gives a thought that the unrevealed Black sister would most likely betray her.

 

Elayne could easily have brought some Kin along and used them to link with. Instead her thoughtless plan got everyone killed, and she didn't even feel guilty about it afterwards. Compare that with Nynaeve who was utterly devastated when Birgitte got ripped out of Tel'aran'rhiod. (Not saying Elayne should have moped for weeks, but show SOME guilt and responsibility for your actions.)

 

Except that Careane didn't do anything to betray Elayne when she busts into the House on Full Moon Street. The raid falls apart because Elayne didn't observe the place long enough to even think that maybe not all the Black Ajah in town were in the house when she entered.

 

Impulsive? Sure? Risky? Sure? Stupid for a queen to do? Absolutely, but she is still a teenager. She has room to grow in the series still. Maybe Egwene will teach her a thing or two about leadership.

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It is just easier to blame Lini.

 

Elayne is the Daughter Heir, Someone who should be taught from a young age how to properly rule. Lini was her caretaker. instead of learning how to negotiate as a ruler, she learns hundreds of one liners about men or honey combs. Tuon contrasts as what happens when heirs aren't raised by Lini.

 

Morgase was also raised by Lini. Her track record is almost as bad as Elayne in terms of poor decisions. could she have picked a worse spot to go for help than the white cloaks? Characters talk about what a good ruler she is, but even as early as the first book, people are rioting in the streets against her.

 

I don't know what role Lini played in raising Gawyn, but there is clearly something wrong in his head, which suggests heavy Lini Influence.

 

In conclusion, hate Lini. These poor kids didn't have a chance when she is the one teaching them about life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Tuon contrasts as what happens when heirs aren't raised by Lini.

 

Sure, they think seeing two birds and a black cat is the sign that must send their whole army across the ocean. They also believe in prophecies that aknowledge the Dragon Reborn and the Final Battle against the DO but hey, trollocs and ta'veren can't be real, and anyway the best way to unite everyone against the DO is certainly to refuse peace with the DR and start a war against him. Oh, and they expect people to accept them as lawful rulers after a thousand years without having bothering to sent back ships to give news. Lini and the Seanchan truthspeakers should all be packed in a sack and thrown in the pit of doom.

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I dont think Elayne is that bad, sure she needs to growup a bit and take that stick out of her butt, however I think it is accurte on what a future queen would be like in a place like Andor she has learned that she is better than everyone else and how to puch ppl around including her brother so what else do you expect

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Maybe Egwene will teach her a thing or two about leadership.

 

 

Plain and simple I just don't like her  :P

 

Always has her nose in he air, always sniffing

Reading that again and agian just irretates me greatly

 

 

Egwene Now she annoys the hell outta me, your right she is a fantastic leader but she has had her nose in the air since day once when she came skulking behind Nynaeve in the two rivers sniffing all the time like its going out of fashion, and over last few books shes become so Aes Sadai that it seems she has forgotten Rand is her FREIND! not something to be moved around on a board like a game of stones! thats when i lost alot of respect for her but even so she was good reading.

 

So is it that shes a bit up her self and not very interesting? Because on purley being up her self she comes a distant second to Egwene everyday.

 

Tuon contrasts as what happens when heirs aren't raised by Lini.

 

Sure, they think seeing two birds and a black cat is the sign that must send their whole army across the ocean. They also believe in prophecies that aknowledge the Dragon Reborn and the Final Battle against the DO but hey, trollocs and ta'veren can't be real, and anyway the best way to unite everyone against the DO is certainly to refuse peace with the DR and start a war against him. Oh, and they expect people to accept them as lawful rulers after a thousand years without having bothering to sent back ships to give news. Lini and the Seanchan truthspeakers should all be packed in a sack and thrown in the pit of doom.

 

Not to mention Tuon had at least two sibblings assasinated and is a complete hardass with barely any emotion, but she does play a deep game which i like. How was it Mat described her, a magistate despensing judgment, all prisoners to be exicuted immediately?

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Sure, they think seeing two birds and a black cat is the sign that must send their whole army across the ocean. They also believe in prophecies that aknowledge the Dragon Reborn and the Final Battle against the DO but hey, trollocs and ta'veren can't be real, and anyway the best way to unite everyone against the DO is certainly to refuse peace with the DR and start a war against him. Oh, and they expect people to accept them as lawful rulers after a thousand years without having bothering to sent back ships to give news. Lini and the Seanchan truthspeakers should all be packed in a sack and thrown in the pit of doom.

 

Why are seeing signs and perceiving them in a certain manner any different to what Min sees or Egwene or whatnot? People have bought up this criticism before regarding Tuon, but her signs seem to be reasonably successful in a vague sort of way. In a world of prophecies and magic and whatnot, its entirely possible that these signs are just another form of foreseeing, in a more ambigious manner. And why would Tuon believe in Trollocs? They have been extinct for thousands of years in Seanchan. Its entirely possible to believe in the Dark One and not Trollocs, particularly since the Trollocs are most likely not mentioned in their prophecies.

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