Lanfear mentions two ter'angreal stronger than Callandor

[Juggler]

OR not toast if cuendillar... meaning it would be at or under dragonmount...

 

Now if "someone" was to get to the top of dragonmount could they find the tamyrlins ring there? IF it was cuendillar and IF it was on LTT's hand when he sucked in all that power to destroy himself.

 

OR due to balefire's effects would the ring end up however far LTT's thread was burned back in the pattern by the balefire, dropped on the floor as that was as far as his thread had travelled so that was were the ring was left.

 

Could be a couple of places OR destroyed.

[SuperFade]

OR due to balefire's effects would the ring end up however far LTT's thread was burned back in the pattern by the balefire, dropped on the floor as that was as far as his thread had travelled so that was were the ring was left.

 

LTT did not balefire himself. If the ring is a S'angreal and if he was wearing it, it's probably buried under hundreds of tons of active volcano right about now.

[MikeRiley]

Of course, if Rand was to ward himself against heat, then go down into the volcano, he could jump out with the ring. But in the later books it becomes pretty obvious that Rand is going to use Callandor and no other powerful sa'angreal.

[FarShainMael]

Or the volcano could erupt it out, in a neat inversion of LotR.. ;)

[Luckers]

Angreal and Sa'Angreal don't *necessarily* need to be attuned to one half of the Source. Some are unisex,

 

There is not a single reference to even the slightest plausibility of a unisex angreal or sa'angreal.

[DocBean]

I think if the Chodan Kal were created specifically to battle the Shadow, then this other one was probably created to battle the Light.

Which is why Lanfear knows about it.

 

I think it will be interesting when Rand comes up against someone more powerful then he is.

We haven't really seen it yet.

 

I'm guessing Demandred, but maybe Moridin has it.

Wasn't he hunting for the Chodan Kal? I wouldn't think he'd care if he already had something as good or better.

 

We know a lot of the male Forsaken were hoping to get their hands on Callendor, so it seems like the first thing you'd do if you were a male forsaken

is try to get your hands on the most powerful Angreal you can find. Maybe that's why Demandred has been Missing in Action so long.

He's been hunting it, and found it in Shara.

[Naffy]

I don't think we will see it in series. Rand just destroyed the Choedan Kal because it was too powerful and tempting. To have him find another super sa'angreal right now would kind of defeat the purpose.

[Kal Logan]

It kinda makes you wonder why the forces of the shadow didn't make Sa'angreal like Callandor or the Choedan Kal, it seem to me that if the forces of the light could make them then the forces of the dark would have been even better equipped to do so especially in the final days of the war.

[Demiandre]

Elayne states that the Talent of creating ter'angreal is rare. She tried with Salidar Aes Sedai, and only a few managed to have a "successful" result. The other didn't quite manage it.

 

And we do not know yet how angreal and sa'angreal are made. Elayne didn't study them before being pregnant. Maybe it is even more difficult.

 

The point of it is : there probably wasn't so much people in the Dark Side knowing how to make *angreal if the Talent is that rare.

[Maji]

I always thought this referred to the CK, I don't remember her saying 'male' sa'angreal.

 

I doubt we are going to see this sa'angreal if it does exist. I agree with Naffy, that the CK were too powerful and destroyed because of it, I doubt we would see that same run of events again.

[bigWalt]

Where is the second male access key? We know there were two female access keys. Though I suppose that the second male one is useless now... but I am still curious.

[MikeRiley]

If it's as fragile as the first female key we saw (in Tanchico), it was probably destroyed in the breaking. I wonder why they even made two of each? Maybe one person wasn't meant to control all of it.

[Byzantine279]

It wouldn't matter even if the second access key did still exist, the sa'angreal it was attached to was utterly destroyed (both of the ck have been, in fact).

[b3arz3rg3r]

It wouldn't matter even if the second access key did still exist, the sa'angreal it was attached to was utterly destroyed (both of the ck have been, in fact).

 

Is there actually an explanation as for why Rand destroyed the male one?

[Barid Bel Medar]

It wouldn't matter even if the second access key did still exist, the sa'angreal it was attached to was utterly destroyed (both of the ck have been, in fact).

 

Is there actually an explanation as for why Rand destroyed the male one?

 

Yeah, he channeled it at itself, destroying it. The CK outside Cairhien explodes.

 

 

ON a related note as to why he destoryed it.

 

WE know its because he realised he didnt need it.

 

Could it be that remembering his "past lives" he found this other sa'angreal stronger than callendor?

[Barid Bel Medar]

Its a strange comment. The Choedan Kal was created to specifically battle the Shadow; if there was another around, why wasn't that used? And isn't Callandor a defective product? In theory there should be heaps more powerful about.

 

Its possible Lanfear was just lying her ass off.

 

Actually it was made originally, not as a weapon, but to form a shield around the bore, effectively locking the DO in his prison again....but the keys were lost before it could be used....

 

Ironically, the female Aes Sedai who designed it also called for all female Aes Sedai to abandon the Dragon's plan to created the 7 seals.  The Seals needed both Saidin and Saidar to be completely successful.  When the hundred companions did it thselves a small gap in the seal allowed for the DO to taint Saidin and also allowed Ishy to still be partially in the world.....actually I think it was Ishmael who convinced Artur Hawkwing to send his army to Seanchan.

 

Now your being pedantic. Being a weapon against the shadow and creating a shield around the Bore are pretty similar :P And its been confirmed if Saidar had been used in the Sealing of the bore, that too would have been tainted.

 

I think you are BOTH forgetting that while Callendor is very powerful, the CK is 100x its power. Thus, even though the other sa'angreal is more powerful than Callendor, it doesnt mean it was near as strong as the CK. Thus, they make the CK powerful enough for the job as callendor and this other sa'angreal was not good enough.

[b3arz3rg3r]

It wouldn't matter even if the second access key did still exist, the sa'angreal it was attached to was utterly destroyed (both of the ck have been, in fact).

 

Is there actually an explanation as for why Rand destroyed the male one?

 

Yeah, he channeled it at itself, destroying it. The CK outside Cairhien explodes.

 

 

ON a related note as to why he destoryed it.

 

WE know its because he realised he didnt need it.

 

Could it be that remembering his "past lives" he found this other sa'angreal stronger than callendor?

 

Not needing it is no reason to destroy it. Rand doesn't need a lot of things and yet he doesn't go on a rampage destroying them, though he came close a couple of times in tGS. There should be some other reason. Even if it's only the realisation that the CK were a power too great for human hands.

 

 

Isn't the sa'angreal stronger than callandor supposed to be the ring of tamyrlin?

[Barid Bel Medar]

It wouldn't matter even if the second access key did still exist, the sa'angreal it was attached to was utterly destroyed (both of the ck have been, in fact).

 

Is there actually an explanation as for why Rand destroyed the male one?

 

Yeah, he channeled it at itself, destroying it. The CK outside Cairhien explodes.

 

 

ON a related note as to why he destoryed it.

 

WE know its because he realised he didnt need it.

 

Could it be that remembering his "past lives" he found this other sa'angreal stronger than callendor?

 

Not needing it is no reason to destroy it. Rand doesn't need a lot of things and yet he doesn't go on a rampage destroying them, though he came close a couple of times in tGS. There should be some other reason. Even if it's only the realisation that the CK were a power too great for human hands.

 

 

Isn't the sa'angreal stronger than callandor supposed to be the ring of tamyrlin?

 

 

No, some have theorized it to be, but theres nothing going for it but the one mention in the Eye of the World. Besides, Tamyrlin was the first channeler (of this cycle of the wheel, I am assuming) I highly doubt s/he would have managed to create one of the greatest Sa'angreals out of nowhere. The best fit to me seems the ring is like the AS rings. Not saying that it denotes any actual postition as such, but its kinda an item that carries great prestige. (It is hard for me to explain it)

TO use an example, it would be like finding something of Julius Caesar's (a ring or whatever) it would be seen as extremely valuable and worthy of much respect, but in truth its useless practically. Thats how I see it anyway.

 

As to Rand destroying the Chodean Kal, i didnt explain myself.

 

Rand has always been afraid of the lure of the Chodean Kal (and Callendor), due to its seductive qualities. But he has kept them because they give him an advantage.

 

VoG, he realizes that he doesnt need the CK any more, so destroys it to prevent the lure that comes with it. After all, we see all through tGS he comes close to destroying the world/cities entirely with the CK. He was scared to use it.

[Pdrejer]

I have a question which is not completely this thread, but still I think it's close enough to warrant being in this thread.

 

In my current reread of the series i noticed that when Siuan Sanche comes to the kitchens to check on Nynaeve and Egwenes progress in The Dragon Reborn, Nynaeve asks what Callandor is, and recieves the answer that it is a sa'angreal, and that only two stronger were ever made.

 

To me this is most likely the CK, yet when I'm comparing this to the fact that Lanfear mentions two that a man can use, I come to the conclusion that 3 should existed at one time. I begin thinking there might actually have been a slip, but having followed these forums for 5 years, such slips seem unlikely.

 

One point that may explain this is the degeneration of knowledge in The White Tower, though it would seem a big thing to forget about, but that is the only explanation I can think of.

[FarShainMael]

@Barid: Rand has also mused on the addictive pull of the TP, and he kept the CK access key with him to balance that pull. Now he does not have that counterbalance. Could this be one of the TP 'implications' that we have been warned to expect? Will Rand need to find that third sa'angreal for that reason?

 

@Phoeger: There are of course (or were) two CKs, one male, one female. That may have been what Siuan meant.

[TreeJoe]

Callandor's power = capable of leveling a city walls at a single blow, or raining down 1000s of lightning bolts simultaneously for miles in every direction.

 

Choedan Kal = Capable of destroying the entire world in a single blow, challenging the dark one/creator, so much power that using it at it's limits for Rand was basically inducing unconciousness - he established his saidin-cleaning weaves first and THEN increasing the amount of power he was pushing into them.

 

These two might be called sa'angreal, but they are not truly comparable in terms of power utilization.

 

I think there is definitely room for something more powerful than Callandor. But beyond that, we have to ask ourselves the following?

 

Q1: If there was a male sa'angreal more powerful than Callandor, why wasn't it used instead of the Dragon's birthright?

 

A1: Because the Shadow had control of that Sa'angreal?

 

Q2: Why haven't we seen the forces of the Shadow fighting with a Sa'angreal yet?

 

A2: Because it's been saved for the absolutely vicious ToM and AMoL?

 

Q3: Who on the Shadow's side would be likely to have a powerful male sa'angreal not yet shown?

 

A3: Moridin, but his is a more philosophical way of fighting and he wield the true power artfully. Demandred, as he is known to crave might and power and we have not yet seen him in battle EXCEPT at the cleansing....this speaks against him having access, but not definitively.

 

....

 

I think we're going to see the Shadow emerge with a tool as strong or stronger than Callandor. And I think Lanfear's statement makes perfect sense in that context. At the time of her statement, the access keys to the ter'angreal were NOT known to still be whole and exist...especially by her, or she would've stolen them. They had lain untouched since the breaking.

 

I think Lanfear knows of a male sa'angreal more powerful than Callandor, and in the hands of the Shadow.

[FarShainMael]

I think Lanfear made that sa'angreal.

[Pdrejer]

Hmm, that kinda puts the idea that in order to make a angreal/sa'angreal for one half of the source you have to use the other, interesting.

[MrMatrim]

I always just thought that particular statement was a misprint, or that RJ hadn't had everything totally fleshed out in his mind. I always thought that the "two more powerful" were just the CK.

 

Remember, the first time we are being told about Callandor, it is Siuan talking about it to the girls and says something to the effect of"With Callandor in your hands, girl, you could level a city's walls with one blow." In actuality, with that in their hands, they could......bang it against the city's walls, and hope they shatter, I guess. It's evidently useless for a woman by herself.

 

My point is that this is still early-ish in the series, and there ARE precedents for errors.

 

But as always, I could be wrong.

[haloun]

just because siuan sanche doenst know of greater sa'angreal doesnt mean there werent greater created. lanfear states only two more powerful for a man to chanell were ever "created" also the emphasis is created, you CAN destroy a sa'angreal as well, so one of the two doesnt have to be wrong, nor does it necessarily mean that one of them isnt since siuans quote was "in existence" and lanfear's was ever made.