Taim is not Moridin

[Owayn The Traveller]

There has been a lot of discussion about the possibility that Taim could be in fact the big cheese himself, Moridin that is.

 

Taim is not Moridin in my view. The whole height issue and not looking at all similiar to Moridin. Greandhal in tGS claims that Moridin looks a lot in fact like Rand. Now Taim doesn't look at all like Rand and I also believe there is a height difference aswell. Another item would be the different colour eyes.

 

All of these reasons are just phyiscal reasons why and their has been talk of apperances being altered by the use of the power both the one power and the true power. Which in all fairness could be viable, just.

 

One item though leads me to believe they are not in fact the same person but two different blokes and not even wrking together. If Taim is Moridin how is it that he is chomping at the bit to find out where Rand is in either  Crossroads or Knife of Dreams or both. If he was Moridin surely he could track him by his ta'varen effect on the pattern. The same way that Lanfear could find him and it is a method I believe that Moridin as Ishamel used before?

 

There is other reasons like contradicting orders from both on Rand to the rebel Asha'man in Winters Heart.

 

 

Sorry if this thread is one too many on this topic.

[Lynander]

Agreed

 

Taim is just Taim.

 

In my opinion, he a new aged Forsaken or taking orders from one.  It could also be that he is somewhat like Demandred where he is jealous of Rand for being the Dragon and not himself - and because of that, working against Rand (like Demandred)

 

But as I said, Taim is just Taim. 

[HornOfValere]

Ugh, I really can't stand Taim and it's one of those things in the series where I wonder why Rand has let him do what he wants. Same with Masena (?) - running round looting people saying he's the prophet. I'm glad he got sorted out though  ;)

 

Sometimes I feel like there's too many variables in the series and I want to hit them all to get them in line!

 

 

[aunt_pol]

I think Taim might just be your common-or-garden variety of DF d***head.

 

Perhaps an unusually long lived one, but not Moridin or Demandred.

[yoniy0]

Of course he isn't, he's Damandred. That's intuitively obvious to the most casual observer. By now, there can surely be no doubt.

[RembrandtQ.Einstein]

I have my doubts on Taim being a darkfriend. He fits the role of an overly ambitious untrustworthy general more. He covets the power Rand holds.

[aunt_pol]

I think I'll go to bed. How, how could Taim not be a DF?

 

"Let the Lord of Chaos Rule."

 

[RembrandtQ.Einstein]

It's an old phrase from the Age of Legends. The only reason the Forsaken seem to be the only ones using it is because they were inhabitants of that age.

 

Taim exhibits odd mannerisms and behaviors. Especially in how he named everything in his Tower in the old tongue. I think it's more than reasonable enough to assume that he could have stumbled across the phrase while perusing in old rusty books for new antique names to use for his newest rank or project. Or he just has an old voice in his head a la Rand.

 

Taim is pretty old for a channeler and if the taint weakens the barrier between lives, it can be assumed that Taim must have quite a bit of ancient memory seepage/spillover. We know that Taim is mad to some degree, judging from Perrins smelling in CoS. Perrin smelled Taim getting insanely angry, then completely calm and then back. Perrin then notes to himself he has never before witnessed such erratic change in mood. But we the readers have witnessed such erratic moodswings in one other character no? In Rand, who also goes from ludicrous angry to complete calm and back in light speed.

 

However service to the DO protects one from the taint. Seems odd then that Taim exhibits signs of madness.

[aunt_pol]

It's an old phrase from the Age of Legends. The only reason the Forsaken seem to be the only ones using it is because they were inhabitants of that age.

 

Taim exhibits odd mannerisms and behaviors. Especially in how he named everything in his Tower in the old tongue. I think it's more than reasonable enough to assume that he could have stumbled across the phrase while perusing in old rusty books for new antique names to use for his newest rank or project. Or he just has an old voice in his head a la Rand.

 

Taim is pretty old for a channeler and if the taint weakens the barrier between lives, it can be assumed that Taim must have quite a bit of ancient memory seepage/spillover. We know that Taim is mad to some degree, judging from Perrins smelling in CoS. Perrin smelled Taim getting insanely angry, then completely calm and then back. Perrin then notes to himself he has never before witnessed such erratic change in mood. But we the readers have witnessed such erratic moodswings in one other character no? In Rand, who also goes from ludicrous angry to complete calm and back in light speed.

 

However service to the DO protects one from the taint. Seems odd then that Taim exhibits signs of madness.

 

 

1: Phrase from the AOL? Arse it is. DO's direct order is what it is.

 

2: When Perrin smelled that off Rand, Rand was flitting back and forth between his own persona, and LTT, as he felt at the time. Presumably Taim's the rebirth of one of the original Dreadlords that got lucky and wasn't caught in the Sealing.

3: With the exception of Perrin's evidence, I think Taim's as sane as anyone else. He's just thick as bottled pig shite that Rand turned up to spoil his fun as the big scary channeling man.

[aunt_pol]

Does the Taint weaken the barrier between lives? I kind of assumed Rand was meant to rediscover and gradually reintegrate his old memories.

 

 

[Majsju]

It's an old phrase from the Age of Legends. The only reason the Forsaken seem to be the only ones using it is because they were inhabitants of that age.

Which phrase are you talking about, 'Let the Lord of Chaos rule'? That is the order the DO gives Demandred in LOC, and we have no reason to believe it has anything whatsoever to do with the AOL.

 

Taim exhibits odd mannerisms and behaviors. Especially in how he named everything in his Tower in the old tongue. I think it's more than reasonable enough to assume that he could have stumbled across the phrase while perusing in old rusty books for new antique names to use for his newest rank or project. Or he just has an old voice in his head a la Rand.

 

Considering that the old tongue is far from a dead tongue, it is a language the nobility are supposed to learn for example, I think it is quite safe to assume there might be a bunch of dictionaries lying around. For example, in TSR we see Rand ask to have a copy of the Karaethon cycle written in the old tongue, how did he plan to read it?

Or, Taim himself, or one of his minions is nobly born, and actually speaks the old tongue.

 

 

[Owayn The Traveller]

Actually the fact that Perrin smelled what could only be described as insanity, isn't that what Perrin said, off Taim does also point to the fact he isn't Moridin. Ishy was a looper but Moridin is far more stable since his reappearance because the side effects of TP use didn't carry over.

 

 

Does the Taint weaken the barrier between lives? I kind of assumed Rand was meant to rediscover and gradually reintegrate his old memories.

 

 

 

I think it does not sure. The voice is Rands head is still open to interpretation. That Taim might be suffering from something similar is a nice idea but do we have any proof? Or are there other cases showing this? What was that Semirhage said about it?

 

It's not certain that Taim is a darkfriend: it's less clear that is just a insane arse out for his own glory.

 

It's something that I would put in my 'hope it will happen but unlikely pile' that Taim isn't a darkfriend.

 

What I find interesting is that a post about Taim always generates a lot of response and yet one about Perrin not so much.

 

What do we know about Taim's background? I can recall a lot more about the other false dragon, Logain. I find that strange that.

[Owayn The Traveller]

He so evil though you can picture him tying Elayne to one of the new train tracks in the next book, twirling his moustache and in his black coat and all. He's nearly a pantomime villain.

 

I don't necessarily think he'll turn out good rather out for own self promotion.

 

Whats this about Snape? Ive only read one harry book and was just watching the god awful movies instead. Jeez Order of the Phoenix, what a load of tripe.

[aunt_pol]

Crap Owayn I'm so sorry - erase that from your mind, forget I said anything....

[Owayn The Traveller]

Ah joke.  :D. That whole series good screwed for me with Ireland AM. Had it on eating my toast before work one morning and they let loose that a major character died. A friend also destroyed the last book pretty much and Snape I guessed from the get go nearly and then my sister told me. :D So get in line.

 

 

[aunt_pol]

Well that's not too bad so. Prob a lesson well learned for me tho, might stop me runnin me mouth off on poor Dralid's thread...

[TheAngryDruid]

Taim's "odd mannerisms" include things we only see from AOL folk (LTT and Forsaken), like referring to these "so called Aes Sedai" and such (if I remember correctly).

 

This is one of the things that led to all the Taim is Demandred speculation.

 

I don't think knowing the Old Tongue is a really good explanation for it. Though there are surely non-Moridin explanations (exposure to Forsaken who demean AS, for instance).

 

[aunt_pol]

Near. So called Aiel.  But IIRC he is v dismissive of AS, for a man not that long free of the Reds.

[Duskfire]

Taim has to be more then just a normal darkfriend; how many darkfriends do we see in the series act like him? Speaking in the Old Tongue, picking up mannerisms of the Forsaken, etc etc. I can't think of any. Which implies he has had alot of attention put into him by one of the Chosen - more attention then is normal. Especially since the Forsaken would normally be against training someone who is as powerful as he and has so much power with the Blacktower; their competitive and suspicious nature would normally be against it. Taim is a mystery for sure.

 

However, theres no doubt in my mind that he is a darkfriend. Prior to KoD I was on the fence about whether he was or not despite all the evidence. But the Lord of Chaos line is too much. Only the Forsaken have been known to use it, especially in the context he was using it in.

[Auld Manriva]

Taim is pompous and pretentious along with a laundry list of other not so admirable traits. His use of the Old Tongue to name things reminds me of RL shlubs who stick cheesy gold painted busts on plinths bought at the Dollar Store to display their class and sophistication.

 

As Maj said, the Old Tongue isn't a dead language, it's well known among the educated and nobility. Just takes opportunity and the will, which Taim would seem to have.

 

He's Saldean is he not? His description and being on the Saldean Most Wanted List has always made me think so. It's feasible he's from a merchant family or minor nobility and could have learned some at least.

 

I think he's simply Taim, though for a LONG time I've considered him a 3rd Age DF wannabe Dreadlord. There's gonna be gobs of em before it's all over. Other than Rand justifying not "offing" him because he needed him to train AS (hoping for more good apples than bad) I've always thought him a sort of clumsy plot device. I'm sure I'll be shown the error of my thinking before it's done.

 

 

[aunt_pol]

The man's rotten. Rotten, rotten, rotten. Bad to the bone. And the marrow stinks 'n all.

[Heron Marked Fist]

Taim is not Moridin in my view. The whole height issue and not looking at all similiar to Moridin. Greandhal in tGS claims that Moridin looks a lot in fact like Rand. Now Taim doesn't look at all like Rand and I also believe there is a height difference aswell. Another item would be the different colour eyes.

 

There actually isn't much of a height difference between Taim and Rand - at least, not anymore. In Winter's Heart Taim is described as "nearly as tall as Rand," so I don't think there's an issue regarding the height difference between Rand/Moridin/Taim.

 

What most interesting to me is that Taim was originally described as being "of slightly above average height" in Lord of Chaos (quotes regarding his height taken from The Thirteenth Depository). Going from "slightly above average" to "nearly as tall as Rand" is quite the change, as I think we can all agree that Rand is much taller than average. I've not found anything online that tries to explain the difference in height yet--does anyone have any ideas (forgive me if this has been discussed and I missed it)?

 

One item though leads me to believe they are not in fact the same person but two different blokes and not even wrking together. If Taim is Moridin how is it that he is chomping at the bit to find out where Rand is in either  Crossroads or Knife of Dreams or both. If he was Moridin surely he could track him by his ta'varen effect on the pattern. The same way that Lanfear could find him and it is a method I believe that Moridin as Ishamel used before?

 

Hasn't it been theorized that with so much chaos in the pattern, and the very fabric of the pattern beginning to unravel, that it's very difficult/impossible to track ta'veren as before?

[Demiandre]

Taim is not Moridin in my view. The whole height issue and not looking at all similiar to Moridin. Greandhal in tGS claims that Moridin looks a lot in fact like Rand. Now Taim doesn't look at all like Rand and I also believe there is a height difference aswell. Another item would be the different colour eyes.

 

There actually isn't much of a height difference between Taim and Rand - at least, not anymore. In Winter's Heart Taim is described as "nearly as tall as Rand," so I don't think there's an issue regarding the height difference between Rand/Moridin/Taim.

 

What most interesting to me is that Taim was originally described as being "of slightly above average height" in Lord of Chaos (quotes regarding his height taken from The Thirteenth Depository). Going from "slightly above average" to "nearly as tall as Rand" is quite the change, as I think we can all agree that Rand is much taller than average. I've not found anything online that tries to explain the difference in height yet--does anyone have any ideas (forgive me if this has been discussed and I missed it)?

Rand spends a lot of time around Aiel, who are tall, which could increase Rand's estimation of average. And as well, as he is himself tall, it could lead him to heighten the "average" height.

 

One item though leads me to believe they are not in fact the same person but two different blokes and not even wrking together. If Taim is Moridin how is it that he is chomping at the bit to find out where Rand is in either  Crossroads or Knife of Dreams or both. If he was Moridin surely he could track him by his ta'varen effect on the pattern. The same way that Lanfear could find him and it is a method I believe that Moridin as Ishamel used before?

Hasn't it been theorized that with so much chaos in the pattern, and the very fabric of the pattern beginning to unravel, that it's very difficult/impossible to track ta'veren as before?

I think that Ta'veren's threads in the Pattern are like Lightouses. Even during tempests, you could spot them if you are not to far away. With a little careful search, I think it should be possible to find them in quite a short time. What seems strange to me in Taim's case, is how did he find Rand in Dumai's Wells? And why does he say they have to xait before making Gateways? Only nine Asha'man dead, and I find it hard to believe that those were the Travellers.

 

But I think Taim is not.a Darkfriend. There are too many hints for him being something more than a normal man that I came to believe that it is what he is.

 

 

[OptimusPrime]

I dont belong in this thread.

[aunt_pol]

@Drekka Mort: haha me too...