The Mysteries of Cyndane

[Bowden]

I kinda figured Lanfear had a ter'angreal that boosted her to Full power and when she died an became Cyndane, she went back to her original power level.

 

Severing: Maybe in the AoL they had a few ways to sever someone, as we have a number of was to execute condemned criminals. We being civilized choose the most humane method.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, cos executing criminals is so civilised...! ;)

 

Well, it keeps things civilized anyway  XD  lol

[Kaman]

There is another way in which we have seen a channelers' power reduced beyond being healed from severing by a person of the same sex. Lanfear her self put a restriction weave on Asmodean that limited the amount of the one power he could draw so that while he was teaching Rand he wouldn't be a threat to Rands life.

Graendal would have sensed her true strength, not how much she was restricted to draw upon.

 

 

 

I don't believe so. I think if the amount of the OP you are able to channel is reduced either permanently or temporarily they would only sense your new strength.  The rebel Aes Sedai don't feel Siuan or Leanes' old strength only there new. Also, Cyndane is reduced and they only feel the new power level.

[Nightstrike]

Who has laid a shielding weave upon her?

[Nightstrike]

Who Healed her after whe was burnt out?

[Nightstrike]

Matt: You saw where we were going...

Brandon: Yes, I see where you are going.

Matt: I had to do the build up to it because it all comes down to that one question for a couple of things.

Brandon: This one question you are going to ask next?

Matt: I’m not going to ask it.

Brandon: Oh, the one you asked…

Matt: ...yeah, I guess I asked a piece of it last night.

Brandon:  When it comes to this certain character that you are talking about, there is a whole thing where Maria and I exchanged a bunch of emails about this. She had managed to pull some things out of the notes that I had not seen, which is interesting, because I was going off of something else. I did not think that Cyndane should be nearly as powerful as she was put in the books as being, so I had been under the belief that the Dark One was pulling shenanigans…

Matt: ...like a little, in essence, let’s say what the Forsaken Lanfear did to Asmodean, you thought maybe the Dark One was doing some similar…shielding…

Brandon: …or the other way around…here is a little extra Power you can draw upon while I am pleased with you, I can take this away…

Matt: ...that is a question…let’s jump to that question, there have been some theories that talk about Lanfear…

Brandon: ...let’s back up and say I was wrong. I was interpreting the notes a certain way. Maria was able to pull something out that I had not seen that made it clear that I had misinterpreted, and that that is not the case, Cyndane is not under any shenanigans. What you see is what you get.

Matt: Cyndane and her alter ego have never been under any shenanigans?

Brandon: I’m not going to say never been under any shenanigans, but when you see her creating a gateway she is legitimately powerful enough to do it, which I did not believe that she was. Does that make sense? This is all digging into my read of the notes versus Maria’s read of the notes, and Maria was right. She was able to provide information to me that I had not seen which is nice because it was stuff that was very pertinent for what I am working on right now. It would have come out eventually when I would have sent her the scenes I’m working on, but it came out earlier, which is nice. Once I found out what was going on it all made perfect sense.

Matt: So, we will understand then in the next book why there is a decrease in Power but not a significant decrease?

Brandon: Yes.

Matt: Ok, so that being said there are some theories out there that in the Age of Legends, at one point, Lanfear might have…

Brandon: ...let’s just say I have not said that Lanfear and Cyndane are the same person.

Matt: Oh, absolutely, I’m jumping to this other Forsaken that we are talking about…

Brandon: …this other completely different person…Uh huh…

Matt: …so Lanfear, the theory goes, that maybe she was accentuated from a beauty and/or Power perspective by going to the 'Finnland previously.

Brandon: Okay.

[Luckers]

Who Healed her after whe was burnt out?

 

Dagdara seems likely, but really any black Rebel with a Talent for Healing could have done it.

[Thor]

I just seriously cannot see why people find the need/urge/whatever to keep trying to pin lanfear's looks on the finns. We got loads of artificial beauties in our own world, do we have finns? No. So why do people have this illogical urge ><

[Nightstrike]

If it had been a shield like Asmo's, then it wouldn't have been very effective. Asmo could have broken it with a lot of will power. Lanny's shield would presumably be much smaller than Asmo's were.

[Nightstrike]

Who Healed her after whe was burnt out?

 

Dagdara seems likely, but really any black Rebel with a Talent for Healing could have done it.

Yeah, I agree. One might expect some loss of strength if a woman Healed her.

[Thor]

If it had been a shield like Asmo's, then it wouldn't have been very effective. Asmo could have broken it with a lot of will power. Lanny's shield would presumably be much smaller than Asmo's were.

 

Effect of a restriction has very little to do with its strength. In fact you can say that because the restriction is less stringent, it is easier to keep it in place hence harder to break.

[Nightstrike]

I think more in the line of Rand in the box at Dumai's wells. Less shielding - more power to break it.

[FarShainMael]

A whole lot of overlap on the scales, but maybe a little less in distribution? Possibly...

 

I was wondering whether Lanfear was a stronger channeller than Moridin, so he weakened Lanfear-as-Cyndane (through partial shielding or using the cour'souvra) just enough so she could not overcome him, but not so much that her strength was not useful to him. I think that's possible.

 

[Luckers]

A whole lot of overlap on the scales, but maybe a little less in distribution? Possibly...

 

I was wondering whether Lanfear was a stronger channeller than Moridin, so he weakened Lanfear-as-Cyndane (through partial shielding or using the cour'souvra) just enough so she could not overcome him, but not so much that her strength was not useful to him. I think that's possible.

 

 

Nope. Moridin by Demandred's inference is the same strength he was as Ishamael, which is to say equal to Rand and Lews Therin, and 'a level or two' above Lanfear, as per RJ's comments.

[Nightstrike]

I think they were close enough before not to risk an open attack on each other. A surprise attack might be the thing, if possible.

 

Moridin has been named nae'blis, and he did have her cour'souvra. Cyndane has fallen from grace in the eyes of the DO. She wouldn't dare kill him. Even if she could have gotten away with it (and without witnesses), someone else would get her cour'souvra.

 

I've mentioned other reasons not to expect such a shield.

[Shadow Rider]

 

Since were talking power levels I thought I'd post this:

 

Scale of Strength in Saidar

 

Level 21

Lanfear

 

Level 20

Cyndane, Alivia

 

Level 19

Graendal, Sharina

 

Level 18

Nynaeve, Semirhage, Talaan

 

Level 17

Mesaana, Someryn (minimum)

 

Level 16

Moghedien, Tamela, Viendre

 

Level 15

Aviendha, Egwene, Elayne, Metarra

 

Level 14

Bode, Cadsuane

 

Level 13

Kerene, Meilyn, Nicola (minimum), Therava (minimum)

 

Level 12

Elaida, Elle, Garenia/Zarya, Janacy/Jancy, Lelaine, Moiraine, Rainyn, Romanda, Siuan (old)

 

MINIMUM LEVEL TO USE CHOEDAN KAL

 

Level 11

Amys (minimum), Cetalia, Kirstian, Larelle, Leane (old), Merean, Merise, Naime, Pevara, Reanne, Rysael, Saerin, Sheriam, Theodrin, Yukiri

 

Level 10

Anaiya, Beonin, Bera, Caire, Carlinya, Coiren, Desandre, Faolain, Felaana, Galina, Joline, Katerine (minimum), Kiruna, Kwamesa, Lemai, Maigan, Melaine, Morvrin, Myrelle, Nesune, Silviana, Talene, Tebreille, Teslyn

 

Level 9

Delana, Doesine, Edarra (minimum), Faeldrin, Gabrelle, Liandrin, Leyn (minimum), Masuri, Narenwhin, Rafela, Renaile, Seaine, Shalon (minimum), Sumeko, Tarna, Toveine

 

Level 8

Alanna, Alviarin (minimum), Chanelle, Covarla, Dorile, Duhara, Eldrith, Falion, Ispan, Julanya, Keraille, Kurin, Meidani (minimum), Merana, Senine, Seonid, Verin

 

MINIMUM LEVEL TO TRAVEL

 

Level 7

Aeldene, Asne, Chesmal, Demira, Elza, Lusonia (minimum), Marillin, Merilille, Tialin

 

Level 6

Adeleas, Kairen, Micarra, Sareitha, Temaile, Turanna, Valinde, Vandene, Vasha (minimum), Zerah

 

Level 5

Aiden, Akarrin, Berenicia, Berowin, Cabriana, Careane, Kumira, Leane (new), Hattori (maximum), Jamilila, Nalasia, Siuan (new), Teramina, Therva, Zemaille,

 

Level 4

Daigian, Monaelle, Nisain, Reiko, Shana

 

CURRENT MINIMUM LEVEL FOR BECOMING AES SEDAI

 

Level 3

Sarainya

 

MINIMUM LEVEL FOR BECOMING ACCEPTED

 

Level 2

Alise, Asra, Caiden, Kumiko, Sorilea

 

Level 1

Morgase

 

Notice that Siuan & Leane have lost 6 & 7 levels of power.

[Nightstrike]

Maybe the top strength from level to level follows something approximately like a geometric progression? That way the strongest & the weakest in each level can be explained as equals, more or less. I think RJ's 21 levels might well include both men and women.

[Kaman]

Matt: You saw where we were going...

Brandon: Yes, I see where you are going.

Matt: I had to do the build up to it because it all comes down to that one question for a couple of things.

Brandon: This one question you are going to ask next?

Matt: I’m not going to ask it.

Brandon: Oh, the one you asked…

Matt: ...yeah, I guess I asked a piece of it last night.

Brandon:  When it comes to this certain character that you are talking about, there is a whole thing where Maria and I exchanged a bunch of emails about this. She had managed to pull some things out of the notes that I had not seen, which is interesting, because I was going off of something else. I did not think that Cyndane should be nearly as powerful as she was put in the books as being, so I had been under the belief that the Dark One was pulling shenanigans…

Matt: ...like a little, in essence, let’s say what the Forsaken Lanfear did to Asmodean, you thought maybe the Dark One was doing some similar…shielding…

Brandon: …or the other way around…here is a little extra Power you can draw upon while I am pleased with you, I can take this away…

Matt: ...that is a question…let’s jump to that question, there have been some theories that talk about Lanfear…

Brandon: ...let’s back up and say I was wrong. I was interpreting the notes a certain way. Maria was able to pull something out that I had not seen that made it clear that I had misinterpreted, and that that is not the case, Cyndane is not under any shenanigans. What you see is what you get.

Matt: Cyndane and her alter ego have never been under any shenanigans?

Brandon: I’m not going to say never been under any shenanigans, but when you see her creating a gateway she is legitimately powerful enough to do it, which I did not believe that she was. Does that make sense? This is all digging into my read of the notes versus Maria’s read of the notes, and Maria was right. She was able to provide information to me that I had not seen which is nice because it was stuff that was very pertinent for what I am working on right now. It would have come out eventually when I would have sent her the scenes I’m working on, but it came out earlier, which is nice. Once I found out what was going on it all made perfect sense.

Matt: So, we will understand then in the next book why there is a decrease in Power but not a significant decrease?

Brandon: Yes.

Matt: Ok, so that being said there are some theories out there that in the Age of Legends, at one point, Lanfear might have…

Brandon: ...let’s just say I have not said that Lanfear and Cyndane are the same person.

Matt: Oh, absolutely, I’m jumping to this other Forsaken that we are talking about…

Brandon: …this other completely different person…Uh huh…

Matt: …so Lanfear, the theory goes, that maybe she was accentuated from a beauty and/or Power perspective by going to the 'Finnland previously.

Brandon: Okay.

Thanks for the quote. I concede the point that Cyndane hasn't been reduced on a temporary basis, (since Maria rules that out directly). But I still believe that Cyndane was reduced for a reason and that reason is that she is so unstable now. She is now much closer to Graendal in strength which is still very useful to the DO but less dangerous to his plans and other minions. Really though there isn't enough info yet to make any definitive call on the why and how of Cyndanes' loss of the OP so I guess it's just a pet theory and a RAFO I hope gets cleared up in ToM.

[Kaman]

 

Since were talking power levels I thought I'd post this:

 

Scale of Strength in Saidar

 

Level 21

Lanfear

 

Level 20

Cyndane, Alivia

 

Level 19

Graendal, Sharina

 

Level 18

Nynaeve, Semirhage, Talaan

 

Level 17

Mesaana, Someryn (minimum)

 

Level 16

Moghedien, Tamela, Viendre

 

Level 15

Aviendha, Egwene, Elayne, Metarra

 

Level 14

Bode, Cadsuane

 

Level 13

Kerene, Meilyn, Nicola (minimum), Therava (minimum)

 

Level 12

Elaida, Elle, Garenia/Zarya, Janacy/Jancy, Lelaine, Moiraine, Rainyn, Romanda, Siuan (old)

 

MINIMUM LEVEL TO USE CHOEDAN KAL

 

Level 11

Amys (minimum), Cetalia, Kirstian, Larelle, Leane (old), Merean, Merise, Naime, Pevara, Reanne, Rysael, Saerin, Sheriam, Theodrin, Yukiri

 

Level 10

Anaiya, Beonin, Bera, Caire, Carlinya, Coiren, Desandre, Faolain, Felaana, Galina, Joline, Katerine (minimum), Kiruna, Kwamesa, Lemai, Maigan, Melaine, Morvrin, Myrelle, Nesune, Silviana, Talene, Tebreille, Teslyn

 

Level 9

Delana, Doesine, Edarra (minimum), Faeldrin, Gabrelle, Liandrin, Leyn (minimum), Masuri, Narenwhin, Rafela, Renaile, Seaine, Shalon (minimum), Sumeko, Tarna, Toveine

 

Level 8

Alanna, Alviarin (minimum), Chanelle, Covarla, Dorile, Duhara, Eldrith, Falion, Ispan, Julanya, Keraille, Kurin, Meidani (minimum), Merana, Senine, Seonid, Verin

 

MINIMUM LEVEL TO TRAVEL

 

Level 7

Aeldene, Asne, Chesmal, Demira, Elza, Lusonia (minimum), Marillin, Merilille, Tialin

 

Level 6

Adeleas, Kairen, Micarra, Sareitha, Temaile, Turanna, Valinde, Vandene, Vasha (minimum), Zerah

 

Level 5

Aiden, Akarrin, Berenicia, Berowin, Cabriana, Careane, Kumira, Leane (new), Hattori (maximum), Jamilila, Nalasia, Siuan (new), Teramina, Therva, Zemaille,

 

Level 4

Daigian, Monaelle, Nisain, Reiko, Shana

 

CURRENT MINIMUM LEVEL FOR BECOMING AES SEDAI

 

Level 3

Sarainya

 

MINIMUM LEVEL FOR BECOMING ACCEPTED

 

Level 2

Alise, Asra, Caiden, Kumiko, Sorilea

 

Level 1

Morgase

 

Many people seem to attributing this scale to team Jordan but it is in fact only a creation of the author of the article "Linda" from The thirteenth Depository. It is based on the fact that RJ stated on his blog that he keeps a scale which the primary purpose of is so he can keep straight who should be deferring to who amongst the Aes Sedai. This scale is questionable on some of its' placements such as Cyndane only being one level below Lanfear.  Nyneave being stronger than Mesaana and equal to Semirhage.

 

Here's the link for any who want to read the full article.

 

http://13depository.blogspot.com/2009/02/saidar-strength-ranking.html

[DaughterOfNight]

Some suggest the Finns have the ability to break weaves of the Power, as with Mat’s ter’angreal.

 

Interesting idea. It would make sense when thinking about who is going in to rescue Moiraine because it's looking like it's going to be a trio of non-channelers, you know?  Mat, Thom and one other -- none of our most likely candidates fits the bill of a channeler.

[Nightstrike]

Nope. Moridin by Demandred's inference is the same strength he was as Ishamael, which is to say equal to Rand and Lews Therin, and 'a level or two' above Lanfear, as per RJ's comments.

I missed this statement before. That wasn't what RJ said.

 

For Gyrehead, Foretelling is not related to strength.  The weakest possible channeler could Foretell as strongly as Elaida or Nicola, or perhaps even more so, depending entirely on the strength of his or her Talent for Foretelling.  The three Red Sitters were sent into exile in 985 NE under Marith Jaen.  Yes, Morgase has slowed, and that is exactly why there is so much emphasis on her looking only ten years older than Perrin when she has children the ages of Elayne and Gawyn.  Regarding the percentage of women who could test for the shawl, it would be 62.5% of the bellcurve.  I’ll leave the maths to you for an idle moment.  The question doesn’t really apply to men, since the Black Tower accepts anyone who can learn to channel, but if the White Tower limits were applied, it would be roughly 65.4% of the bellcurve.  Although, considering the effectiveness question, they should probably set it at the same 62.5%.  Again, the maths are all yours.  Regarding the levels of male strength, while the weakest man and the weakest woman would be roughly equivalent, you might say that there are several levels of male strength on top of the female levels.  Remember to integrate this with what I’ve said elsewhere about effectiveness, though.

[FarShainMael]

Got any more on that?

 

[Nightstrike]

Added it later.

[Luckers]

I said 'as per RJ's comments', and that is indeed the case. Lanfear was the female upper limit. Rand and Ishamael were the male. RJ stated that the male upper strength is a couple of levels above the female (in reference to the fact that the female strength lay accross a 21 levels). Therefore Demandred's inference that Moridin is as strong as Ishamael means that Moridin was 'a level or two' stronger than Lanfear. As per RJ's comments.

 

There--you quoted it yourself. Why are you disagreeing with me? Moridin was stronger than Lanfear. The poster premise is wrong.

[Nightstrike]

That was from RJ's blog.

 

This is a report from a signing:

 

Knife of Dreams book tour 11 October 2005, NYC - Syraelle reporting

 

Re: bulk "strength" in the power

RJ reiterated that men were stronger than women by a couple of levels, including Lanfear [whom he reiterated was a woman after all]; but then he also reminded us that that did not take into account the dexterity factor.

 

[Luckers]

Yes... I know. I still don't understand why you disagreed with me.