A Black Tower In Tar Valon?

[Luckers]

Ok, so I'm feeling fanciful today, and I was thinking--I've never been a fan of the 'men will become Aes Sedai again and the the two Towers will rejoin'. I think incorporation of the White and Black Towers is impossible at this stage without tearing the White down. There's too many laws, customs and beliefs in place.

 

But, that being said, there are severe problems to two rival Towers. They'd become divisive, and undercut each others efforts. Additionally the Black Tower sitting in the middle of Andor has its own political problems, and we do know the current Black Tower is soon to be 'rent' in blood and flame.

 

So... what if the new political relationship takes the same form as what we see ocurring now. Bonded political organisations--not completely amalgamated, but I'm not talking about just an alliance. For this to be the case they would essentially have to have their power bases in the same place (to avoid the aforementioned political problems) and thus we intro Elaida's palace foundation, which is thematically on what used to be the Warder training ground. They could develop some form of double house of representatives, and so forth. Not sure how it would work out with the leader, but thats just fine detail...

[TheAngryDruid]

Kind of a cool theory.

 

Myself, I think the two will be re-unified, sort of.

 

I think Cadsuane (and her sisters bonded to Asha'man) and Logain (and his 51 AS) will be instrumental in teaching the rest that the best deeds are with Saidin and Saidar combined.

 

Plus, the effectiveness of channelers sans oaths will be demonstrated, as will the positive effect of being OUT in the world, rather than retreating from it. Linking will make a huge comeback as well. Egwene's relationship with the Aiel, and Elayne's group of Kin, AS, and Windfinders will bring it home.

 

Now, I don't think it will happen right away, but they'll be a Hall of Servants (or many Halls of Servants: Healing halls (Yellow + Damer Flinn's), Halls of Learning (Browns); Halls of Reflection/Thinking (Whites), Halls of training for Battle/Defense (Greens/Asha'men/Reds); Halls for dispute settlement (Grays); Halls for justice and various causes (Blues) in every city. All where those who can channel the OP can serve their people. Men, Women, Aiel, whomever.

 

 

 

[torrente]

They should make a black and white tower, like the yin yang symbol . . . isn't that what those cuendillar seals look like?

 

Discuss.

[cortezthekiller]

Putting the word "discuss" at the end of posts should be against the rules.  It's obvious that if you post something, you want people to discuss it afterward.  It kind of goes without saying.

 

Discuss.

 

 

 

:P

 

[garryowen]

I really don't see what problem Egwene would personally have with the Black Tower relocating to Tar Valon somewhere, but the Hall will be a different story. I don't think the Hall would approve of the Black Tower as a connected structure to the White Tower, but they might permit a separate structure somewhere else in Tar Valon proper. At the very least I could definitely see a Black Tower recruitment center being erected in Tar Valon. Now that Saidin is cleansed, someone needs to take male channelers off Aes Sedai hands and give them proper training. Even the Hall should be able to agree with that.

[Demiandre]

It will take time. And negociation. The Hall should accept, but remember that Aes Sedai are an awful lot of childish, overconfident and arrogant women. I don't think they will overcome their hate of men who can channel even if every sister link with a man and see that there isn't any taint remaining on saidin.

 

But it would be cool to see men and women working together again. We only had the Cleansing so far, and it was wonderful enough, and we have all others things from the AoL : the Ways, the Eye, Whitebridge (not sure about it...)

 

Even Flinn working a little time with Samitsu, Sumeko and Nynave would be amazing in my opinion. And the Green creating some weaves by seeing Asha'man fights or training.

[Durinax]

I always thought that the black tower would relocate to Elaidas palace. Althoguh one main problem I see coming up is the bonding issue. and i thikn that all channellers who are bound will be released. after all they shouldnt suffer from the warder death rage should they? after all they can flee into saidin or saidar and seek comfort from that. But I think that the women will be adamant about the women bonding male channellers in the future which will bring about a bunch of tension

[Kaznen]

I was thinking maybe Rand's AM would out AS the AS, from a AoL perspective.

 

In the AoL the AS had a Hall of Servants in every city, town, and village an AS lived in, even if it was just the AS's house, and the Hall of Servants in Paran Disan was the AS "headquaters."

 

The post breaking AS gathered themselves into a single city in a single place in the city.  Even in TV seeing an AS isn't an everyday occurrence.

 

The AoL AS were a lot more accessible to the general public.  If one needed to see a AS for advice, healing, judgment for a dispute, or whatever the AS did they could go to there local AS which was at most something like two towns over.  If the AS could not help the person they would help make arrangements to get them to an AS who could.

 

Now if a person needed AS help they needed to travel, in some cases, halfway across the "world" across several rivers and mountain ranges.

 

The way the AS sealed themselves away from the world is something Rand thought was one of their biggest mistakes, that's why wives and kids live in the BT with the AM.

 

I pictured Rand, once the population of full bored AM got to a certain level, setting up Chapter Houses in all the major non-Seanchan controlled cities.  One of said cities being Tar Valon.

 

The AS ruled with power unchecked for over 3000 years.  Now they have a group who can stand up to them.  If the AM set up Chapter Houses and once word get out they can do anything an AS can AND they're in the closest city, people will start turning to them for help and if AM gives with an unbaited the AS will lose face and respect.

 

The biggest obstacle between the AS and AM working together is the AS refuse to look at AM as equals. 

 

[HornOfValere]

I really loved the concept of the Black Tower, and I would hate to see it bow to the whims of the mostly arrogant and ignorant populace of the White Tower.

 

I do think something is going on with the current M'Hael (who's name I can't remember!), and I don't like that he has all but wrested control from Rand, and that Rand barely ever thinks of it or uses it to exploit channelling men.

 

I'm also curious about where the Reds when from the end of KoD. I'm sorry if that's spoiled anything for anyone, is there a spoiler code for this site?!

[algspkr]

A friend of mine first suggested this possibility prior to CoT, and I like it.  Like him I want Elida to know about it, maybe it could be her final foretelling before scumming to the a'dom:

"And the Asha'men shall inhabit my palace.  This I foretell."

[Luckers]

They should make a black and white tower, like the yin yang symbol . . . isn't that what those cuendillar seals look like

 

I was thinking a black tower beside a white tower to achieve the same effect. Maybe with bridge linking them.

[Ashaman_Axel]

Aren't Ashaman also arrogant? The "You can't tell a man that he has the power to move mountains and expect him to walk small.." speech from Taim seems to make it so. Or are the arrogant Ashaman belong only to Taim's faction?

 

 

 

 

[Barid Bel Medar]

Aren't Ashaman also arrogant? The "You can't tell a man that he has the power to move mountains and expect him to walk small.." speech from Taim seems to make it so. Or are the arrogant Ashaman belong only to Taim's faction?

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, both of them are arrogant and both have issues.

 

The women dont trust the men because they still afraid of the taint and such, and they are arrogant, (women dont like being equal to men) and they have lived their way of life for 3000 years. To say they are wrong (which tehy are, but thats beside the point here) is liike telling us that (insert religious faith here) is a load of crap and we should all start doing (insert new religious theory here) So i wouldnt blame the AS tooo much for that.

 

The men dont trust the Women because they think AS will try and gentle them (on top of the AS distrust everyone has) Plus they are also arrogant, defiant in their independance and recent sanctification.

 

So both really are actually exactly the same. The Black Tower is insular just like the WT is. They both think they know more than everyone, its just that the Black Tower is fairly new, and men are still not trusted with the Power, so no queen or king would take them as advisors.

 

Responding to Luckers original question, I believe that there will be, in time, a joint "Tower" as it were, but i cannot say where. I dont think it will be in the series thoguh, with Nicola's fortelling about "the Servants balancing the Guardians", it iwll take a long time to heal, but i think, as most of the above posters think, that the bonded AM and AS will help bring them together.

[Natrix]

IMO there will be a time when the AS and the AM unite in some fashion. I agree more along the lines of them establishing Chapter Houses like in the AoL. Not sure if they will be in Tar Valon together or if it would be an acknowledgment type thing. Keeping their separate Towers. The Egwene/Rand reunion will have a major part in how it turns out. My question is there enough time in these next two books to sort this all out? Did RJ consider this to be one of the plot lines left open? There would just be so much to go over like bonding, linking, governing bodies, etc.

 

My own answer to that if they did leave it open would be an awesome outrigger novel. It would be cool to see if the AM establish their own types of Ajahs and whether that would coincide with the AS system.