Why so few?

[Lord of the Morning]

Hey all, i'm re-reading Path of daggers right now, and came to an interesting question.  When Rand went to disperse the Seanchan, and stop their inasion of Illian h brought 5000 soldiers and 50 asha'man. I'm wondering why a man who can literally summon millions to war brought so few, that army destroyed about 8 times it's number in enemy troops. If Rand had brought a 200k army with 100 asha'men he could have ended the Seanchan there.

[Luckers]

Because a big part of his intention was to get rid of many of the people that opposed him. He ranks that force with all of the nobles plotting against him in the idea that if anyone is going to be cannon fodder, it was them.

 

Don't mistake that, he still intended to drive the Seanchan back, and that is why he brought Callandor--but you'll notice he didn't pull that until it was necessary, letting his enemies fight and die for him first.

[Ashaman_Axel]

Funny in that scene both Rand and the Seanchan believed they lost... Which in the outcome seems to be the case. I wonder what would happen if Rand sent a Soldier back to ask for more Ashaman reinforcements?

[yoniy0]

Defeat of an enemy army is defined as making it lose belief in its resistance ability, and as a subsequent result, its structure as an army. It's got nothing to do with annihilating the enemy, and in truth, there are known examples of armies defeated after suffering minimal losses, and armies which kept fighting long after they should have given up.

Therefore, it's not unthinkable that two opposing armies be defeated by one another. As we've seen, both sides here have lost their desire to continue fighting. Rand was in no state to order a second strike.

[OptimusPrime]

Funny in that scene both Rand and the Seanchan believed they lost

 

I thought it was an awesome scene that. Freaking awesome. Rands failure to control Callandor, Basheres willingness to knock the Dragon Reborn down to stop him, both sides thinking they lost, then the Seanchan womans PoV right after showing them as the only suvivors of thousands... I think it was incredibly well written. One of my favorite bits in the entire series.

[Ashaman_Axel]

I agree it was an awesome scene especially when Karede (?) was thankful for the rain for hiding his tears. But I found it funny on my first read on PoD.  ;)

[Barid Bel Medar]

great scene, i agree.

 

as to why so few?

 

The army itself (foot and horse etc..) was not really an army, it was the AM that was the army.

 

Rand thought he could destroy anything with Callendor and some AM, the soldiers were there only for personal protection, and of course, getting rid of the conspirators as the other posts have said .

[yoniy0]

Karede (?)

It was Abaldar Yulan, the 'captain of air' or whatever they call him. Karede is the Deathwatch Guard dude that has been chasing Mat until KoD. And the Seachan general who led their forces against Rand was Miraj, but Rand killed him when he used callandor.

[Terrel88]

I just loved it when Rand said sometig enough along the lines of: "He wondered what they would have said if he was a big enough hammer by himself. He had considered doing it by himself. It may come to that yet." What a tank.

[Lord of the Morning]

I can buy that he wanted to thin out the numbers of his opposition, but i still think he shoulda thought to bring more than a token force, and 50 AM.  The Seanchan could have been ended here, their base is ebou dar, and they were gathering in their forces to take on Rand.  If he had brought 50 more AM and 15k spears it might have been enough, considering the Kill/Death ratio his men were kicking up.

[darth_hel]

Luckily for him he didn't end the Seanchan then and there, they could be powerful allies in the last battle.

[yoniy0]

Plus, he was fighting a force with relatively few damane. There were hundreds more in Ebou Dar.

[Duskfire]

Yeah I think Rand realised that if he pushed onto Ebou Dar even if he was in such a condition personally, the loss of life would be quite high on his side, and he wouldn't want that prior to the Final Battle. He would probably win, but at what cost? The Seanchan were able to summon three hundred thousand troops and two hundred damane to take on Rodel Iturlade in a matter of weeks. They have a decent number of troops. Its not as if they sent the majority of their forces to invade Illian either.

[aunt_pol]

It's worth pointing out here that at that stage, IIRC, not that many AM would have been actually v useful in battle. I know Taim was pushing them hard, to be walking weapons, but perhaps someone can help us out with a timeline here? Seems to me like the creation of the farm wouldn't have really been that long before the Seanchan battle.

 

sorry if I'm wrong though!

[yoniy0]

I don't know. The battle against the Seanchan was at the end of TPoD, and they've been quite effective in Dumai's Wells, which came before that.

[Lord of the Morning]

Luckily for him he didn't end the Seanchan then and there, they could be powerful allies in the last battle.

 

All the Seanchan are is a plot of Ishamael's to split the forces of the light.  Yes, they could be powerful allies, but as of right now, they are at open war with the White Tower and the Dragon Reborn, the two most powerful forces on this continent.  Rand now has to contemplate a future where he goes to fight the Last Battle with the Seanchan capturing all the way up to Andor.  If Rand somehow pulls off a victory at TG, his forces will be so exhausted and depleted he will be crushed in a subsequent war with the Seanchan.

 

That might not be so bad, the Seanchan are nothing but good masters.  Would also explain how the power is forgotten by the begginning of the 1st age, as killing all male channellers, and putting collars on the females is a good way to cull the ability out of mankind.

[Charlz Fel]

Another point of interest: this battle is before the Return, so the Seanchan don't have nearly the forces (both in damane and in troops) that they will later for battling Ituralde.

[Durinax]

Another point of interest: this battle is before the Return, so the Seanchan don't have nearly the forces (both in damane and in troops) that they will later for battling Ituralde.

I thought the return was just starting when the imperial family got slaughtered

 

and no reinforcements will come from seandar to help out the seanchan since that whole continent is in a huge civil war

[Duskfire]

Another point of interest: this battle is before the Return, so the Seanchan don't have nearly the forces (both in damane and in troops) that they will later for battling Ituralde.

I thought the return was just starting when the imperial family got slaughtered

 

and no reinforcements will come from seandar to help out the seanchan since that whole continent is in a huge civil war

 

Regardless they still have about half a million troops. Thats nothing to laugh at.

 

Anyhow, Rand may be against the idea of allying with the Seanchan now that he has gotten over his "madness" just because of what they will do afterwards, but then he'll find out that Mat is married to the Empress. Mat is the key here. He will change the foundation and culture of the Seanchan empire. This is part of the reason Mat is ta`veren.

[Durinax]

Another point of interest: this battle is before the Return, so the Seanchan don't have nearly the forces (both in damane and in troops) that they will later for battling Ituralde.

I thought the return was just starting when the imperial family got slaughtered

 

and no reinforcements will come from seandar to help out the seanchan since that whole continent is in a huge civil war

 

Regardless they still have about half a million troops. Thats nothing to laugh at.

 

Anyhow, Rand may be against the idea of allying with the Seanchan now that he has gotten over his "madness" just because of what they will do afterwards, but then he'll find out that Mat is married to the Empress. Mat is the key here. He will change the foundation and culture of the Seanchan empire. This is part of the reason Mat is ta`veren.

mat wont be the only reason I hope that egwene is smart enoguh to send people into seanchan lands who are like Thom, can start a rumor without having it trace back to him, to spread word that suldam can channel. this would damage them significantly, since they are the cornerstone of the seanchan army

[Duskfire]

Another point of interest: this battle is before the Return, so the Seanchan don't have nearly the forces (both in damane and in troops) that they will later for battling Ituralde.

I thought the return was just starting when the imperial family got slaughtered

 

and no reinforcements will come from seandar to help out the seanchan since that whole continent is in a huge civil war

 

Regardless they still have about half a million troops. Thats nothing to laugh at.

 

Anyhow, Rand may be against the idea of allying with the Seanchan now that he has gotten over his "madness" just because of what they will do afterwards, but then he'll find out that Mat is married to the Empress. Mat is the key here. He will change the foundation and culture of the Seanchan empire. This is part of the reason Mat is ta`veren.

mat wont be the only reason I hope that egwene is smart enoguh to send people into seanchan lands who are like Thom, can start a rumor without having it trace back to him, to spread word that suldam can channel. this would damage them significantly, since they are the cornerstone of the seanchan army

 

Damaging them before TG would potentially be bad, very bad. I could imagine alot of splinter groups breaking off, and the Seanchan having their own civil war on the main land. Not only is there not enough time prior to the Final Battle for any sort of prolonged civil war to be fully realised and then taken care of, Rand needs the Seanchan. Mat and Perrin will be the ones to help forge the alliance (and maybe Egwene too, going by her dreams) and then after when the truth is revealed and society has completely changed, thats where Mats importance will come in.

 

At least thats how I see it.