Fortuona on a leash

[lordofsoup]

As the empress doesn't she own all the seeker?  They report only to the empress

[singogreatest360]

I was under the impression that testing positive for damane meant they could be controlled like any other damane.  

 

Test positive as damane and you become damane. Your old life is over, as if it never was.

[algspkr]

I believe that if Fortuona were to be leashed most of the Seanchan would stop following her orders, including the better part of the Deathwatch Guards.  I do not believe the imperial family is not exempt from being made damane as she states:

A sister and a brother had been made da'covale and had their names stricken from the records as firmly as if it had been discovered they could channel.

I believe that the empress's children are tested regularly.  The question remains will the empress herself be tested.

[singogreatest360]

Ty Dida

 

Two of them had died in those struggles, so far, and three had tried to kill her. A sister and a brother had been made da’covale and had their names stricken from the records as firmly as if it had been discovered they could channel. Her place was far from secure even now. A single misstep could see her dead, or worse, stripped and sold on the public block. Blessings of the Light, when she smiled, she still looked sixteen! At best!

 

Source: Winter's Heart, Chapter 14 "What a Veil Hides" - Tuon point of view, her thoughts, with Selucia in her private room on the 'Victory of Kidron'

 

 

A damane can not be Empress. The deathwatch will fight to the death for FORTUONA, but if she can channel she won't BE Fortuona anymore. It seems that someone accusing you of channeling is enough to get you tested.

 

Many had thought it odd when Tuon tested for sul’dam on reaching adulthood, though none could gainsay her, then. Except her mother, who had allowed it by remaining silent. Actually becoming a sul’dam was unthinkable, of course, but she found as much enjoyment in training damane as in training horses, and she was as good at one as the other.

 

Source: Winter's Heart, Chapter 14 "What a Veil Hides" - Tuon point of view with her damane, sul'dam & Selucia on the 'Victory of Kidron'

 

Like Dida said, From this one can say the imperial family doesn't get tested. So she hasn't been tested for damane before. We can guess the result of the future test.

 

 

Sometimes she thought she felt the channeling, too. Even sul’dam had to undergo the yearly testing, until their twenty-fifth naming day, and she had passed by failing every time. Only . . . There would be a new testing after Renna and Seta were discovered, a new testing to find the marath’damane who somehow had evaded the first. The Empire itself might tremble before such a blow. And with the image of Renna and Seta burned into her brain, she had known with total certainty that after those tests, Bethamin Zeami would no longer be a respected citizen. Instead, a damane called Bethamin would serve the Empire.

 

 

Source:  Chapter 20 "Questions of Treason" - Bethamin point of view

 

FORESHADOW maybe........

[Duskfire]

I just want her to be collared just to see what Mat would do. I've always thought that if something made Mat truly angry or truly afraid he would become an incredibly scary and badass individual. He goes out of his way to help Aes Sedai who he doesn't even care about; wonder what would happen if someone he loved such as Tuon or Olver or whatnot was in danger.

[Graveyardhag]

Like Dida said, From this one can say the imperial family doesn't get tested. So she hasn't been tested for damane before. We can guess the result of the future test.

 

Not tested for Sul'dam certaintly. Actually being a working sul'dam would be forbidden for sure.

I still don't see how you can say they aren't tested for being damane. Why would a culture that is absolutely convinced that channelers are evil animals and must be collared, test every single female in the empire, but completely ignore the imperial family? Why would they risk a potenitail channeler sitting on the throne? Why would they risk letting one run free.

All we have seen from Tuons POV is that testing for Sul'dam was unusuall, but her mother didn't object. That does not mean she was not tested for damane.

[Cirin]

To a certain extant, given the reverency with which they admire the Empress, I almost wonder if they would turn a blind eye to an Empress that started being able to channel after she was Empress... after all, the Empress is sort of like a living deity to the Seanchan - they might assume that she is infallible to the dangers of channeling.  Of course, they might not, too.

 

Also, as for Berelain (that someone mentioned before), she could be the Golden Hawk as well.  Although her kingdom is described as a tiny one, she would likely be High Blood in Seanchan, since her last name IS Paendrag, and she traces her lineage from Artur Hawkwing.  I think her banner is a Golden Hawk as well.

[singogreatest360]

Like Dida said, From this one can say the imperial family doesn't get tested. So she hasn't been tested for damane before. We can guess the result of the future test.

 

Not tested for Sul'dam certaintly. Actually being a working sul'dam would be forbidden for sure.

I still don't see how you can say they aren't tested for being damane. Why would a culture that is absolutely convinced that channelers are evil animals and must be collared, test every single female in the empire, but completely ignore the imperial family? Why would they risk a potenitail channeler sitting on the throne? Why would they risk letting one run free.

All we have seen from Tuons POV is that testing for Sul'dam was unusuall, but her mother didn't object. That does not mean she was not tested for damane.

 

Hey, PLENTY of things they do don't make since! High Lord Turak's people commited suicide when their master died. SUICIDE. And it was normal. From their point of view, it completely eliminates the threat of 'in house' assassinations.

 

Plus, you know RJ loved to create traditions no one know the original purpose of. The Imperial Family members around the first leashing HAD to know the specifics of the A'dam and also hated AS. They came up with the Test traditions which would keep the sparkers under control and the learners oblivious. Since the purpose of the sul'dam is to lead the damane in battle and any sparkers in family would die, get assassinated by siblings or be smart enough to hide it, it makes since to keep women of the family from testing at all.

[Durinax]

I think in order to be empress you need to be a potential channeller, its been hinted at a few times, such as when they said that the last male emperor was 1000 years ago, and since the ability can be hereditary it is plausible

[Tom Sawyer]

I think in order to be empress you need to be a potential channeller, its been hinted at a few times, such as when they said that the last male emperor was 1000 years ago, and since the ability can be hereditary it is plausible

 

I don't know.  It seems the main criteria for becoming Empress is being a more vicious killer than everyone else in your family.  Tuon's obviously very good at that, considering that she's survived this long, and given that one of her main hobbies is torturing people and breaking their spirit, she has the personality for it.

 

There doesn't seem to be any real restriction on men being Emperor, but it's just kind of turned out that way.  It may be that there's some Seanchan/Dark prophecy that mentions a woman on the Crystal Throne, so Ishamael's arranged it so that this is always the case just so he could be prepared when Lews Therin came back.

 

[Wantanswers]

I think in order to be empress you need to be a potential channeller, its been hinted at a few times, such as when they said that the last male emperor was 1000 years ago, and since the ability can be hereditary it is plausible

The last emperor was insane. Could it be caused by the taint? If so, he was a channeler.

[Dragan]

Ok this won't happen for 2 reasons first Fortuona stated that the difference between Sul'dam and Damane  was that Sul'dam chose not to Channel and she has decided NOT to learn in reality its not a choice for the Sul'dam its lack of knowledge implying that since Fortuona knew that she would know all Sul'dam can Channel if properly trained the Damane  are the ones who will channel regardless if they want to or not. If you look at it from a twisted point of view its a lot like what the Aes Sedai do they look down on wilders who would have begun channeling regardless when the others would have to be taught the Seanchan just do it a little differently but they do protect the population of Seanchan from Channelers hurting themselves or others. Secondly with the Seanchan mainland in open rebellion and there being no clear Emperor or Empress for the foreseeable future as far as they know even if Fortuona did get tested and failed the A'dam test to become Damane  with the empire in the state it is i very much doubt it would be in the best interest of the Empire to make their only ruler Da'covale let alone a Damane just imagine the impact the the Empire. Put yourself in the Seekers shoes they serve not only the Empress but the Empire itself would that be in the best interest of the Empire?

[Dida]

As the empress doesn't she own all the seeker?  They report only to the empress

 

  No, there is at least two different factions of Seekers/Listeners/Hands I recall. One faction is answers directly to the Empress, and another I recall is an independent faction which in theory is a check on the Imperial House's political control.

 

  I'll find the quotes later tonight, as I'm short on time at the moment...need to run to the airport now. :)

[CUBAREY]

No, there is at least two different factions of Seekers/Listeners/Hands I recall. One faction is answers directly to the Empress, and another I recall is an independent faction which in theory is a check on the Imperial House's political control.

 

All seekers  come under the authority of the Empress. The Empress is the embodiment of the Empire.

[Luckers]

Mmm. In the entire Empire only the Truthspeaker is not answerable to the Empress, and a Truthspeaker has no authority.

 

I agree we'll never see Fortuona leashed, but I would've liked to see someone threaten to forcibly spark Fortuona--such a thing may even be possible, but even just a well delivered threat might make for an interesting moment.. See how well her 'choices' hold up in the face of that threat.

[Netizen]

I would really, really like to see Fortuona leashed. We'll see what she's made of then. I'd kinda like Egwene to be the one to do it.

[Dida]

No, there is at least two different factions of Seekers/Listeners/Hands I recall. One faction is answers directly to the Empress, and another I recall is an independent faction which in theory is a check on the Imperial House's political control.

 

All seekers  come under the authority of the Empress. The Empress is the embodiment of the Empire.

 

 That claim is untrue, and the truth is far more complex.

 

Listeners report to Seekers.  Seekers report to a Hand.  Hands then report to an individual who is a High Blood and or part of the Imperial House.   Meaning Suroth, General Galgan and Empress Fortuona each have a Hand and Seekers and Listeners working directly for them personally—multiple independent networks.  However there is an implication some Seekers & Hands are independent of the High Blood & the Imperial, as members of the Secret Police and or the Justice system of Seanchan.    Not every Seeker nor Hand is property, let alone property owned by the Empress directly.  Some Seekers and Hands are free individuals.   A Raven tattoo denotes, a person being property of the Empress.  While a Tower tattoo denotes, a person who is a Seeker or Hand in status.  A person with both a ‘Raven’ and a ‘Tower’ tattoo is both 'Property' and a 'Seeker' or a more superior ranking 'Hand'.    

 

 

Most Seekers for Truth bore the ravens as well as the tower, but not even someone who dared steal a Seeker’s plaque would have himself marked so. To wear the ravens was to be the property of the Imperial family.

 

Source: The Shadow Rising, book 4, Chapter 38 “Hidden Faces” – Egeanin point of view, with a Seeker in one room, and Bethamin in the cellar with an a'dam on her neck

 

 

Egeanin specifically states that not all Seekers are property of the Imperial Family.  Some Seekers only have a tattoo of the Tower on their backs, thus are free people.

 

 

 Is there a significant different between Seekers who are Property and those who are Free individuals?

 

 

  Yes, Seekers possessing only the Tower tattoo can access to “Breeding Books” unlike Seekers who wear the Raven tattoo lack this access.

 

 

“Mor,” the reply came finally. “Almurat Mor.” So. Mor. He had an ancestor who had come with Luthair Paendrag, then, and was rightly proud. Without access to the breeding books, which no da’covale was allowed, Karede had no way of knowing whether any of the tales about his own ancestry were true—he also might have an ancestor who had once followed the great Hawkwing—but it did not matter.

 

Source: The Crossroads of Twilight, book 10, Chapter 4 “The Tale of a Doll” – Deathwatch Guard General Karede point of view

 

 

    It is unknown, is Almurat Mor is that Seekers real name, as Bethamin thoughts state that Seeker’s lie frequently about their real names to others.  Nor do we as readers, know if this Seeker Almurat Mor was implying truthfully that he is Property of the Crystal Throne or not.  We never have seen his back, for solid proof what Tattoo’s he possesses or not.      

 

 

  However, Karede thoughts about the lack of access to the Breeding Book should be accurate for da’covale or property.

 

 

  Should the Breeding Books matter as a plot element, for Empress Fortuona in the Towers of Midnight book?  

 

 

A sister and a brother had been made da’covale and had their names stricken from the records as firmly as if it had been discovered they could channel. Her place was far from secure even now. A single misstep could see her dead, or worse, stripped and sold on the public block. Blessings of the Light, when she smiled, she still looked sixteen! At best!

 

 

Source: Winter's Heart, book 9, Chapter 14 "What a Veil Hides" - Tuon's point of view, her thoughts

 

 If an individual as smart as Tuon is, came to the reasonable conclusion that a brother and a sister might had been removed from the family rolls because they actually channeled.  Should not a Seeker with access to the Imperial House family rolls, as possibly Lord Turak's former Hand would, notice that two of the Empress's children were being removed from the rolls in the firstplace?

 

 It's not as if, supply ships were not running back and forth to Seanchan after the fall of Falme either.  Needed information can travel by boat, if asked for by the right individuals as well.

 

 

 

What is the symbol of Justice among Seanchan society?

 

 

The Tower of Ravens is the symbol of Imperial Justice among Seanchan society, not the Empress.  

 

 

A raven, symbol of the Imperial family; the Tower of Ravens, symbol of Imperial justice.

 

 

Source: The Shadow Rising, book 4, Chapter 38 “Hidden Faces” – Egeanin point of view, with a Seeker in one room, and Bethamin in the cellar with an a'dam on her neck

 

 

 Meaning if the Empress is suspected of wrongdoing, there is authority within the broader Imperial House and the Tower of Ravens to remove an Empress, and find a replacement leader for the Seanchan Empire (e.g. High Blood General Galgan as Emperor).  

 

  Egeanin should be accurate about the symbol of Seanchan Justice being the Tower of Ravens. As her own mother was Hand of the Empress at Sea, a Captain of the Gold who stood at the left hand of the Empress, next to so'jhin to the Empress at the Court of Nine Moons. (CoT book, Chapter 10 - Egeanin pov)

 

 

What is the authority of a Seeker?

 

 

Even in the Kaensada Hills everyone knew a Seeker’s word was law.

 

Source: Source: The Crossroads of Twilight, book 10, Chapter 4 “The Tale of a Doll” – Deathwatch Guard General Karede point of view

 

 

 

  Yet what is the authority of an Empress?

 

 

Tuon’s Soe’feia, her Truthspeaker, named by the Empress, might she live forever, when Neferi died. A surprise, with Neferi’s Left Hand trained and ready to replace her, but when the Empress spoke from the Crystal Throne, her word was law.

 

Source: Winter's Heart, book 9, Chapter 14 "What a Veil Hides" - Tuon point of view, on 'The Victory of Kidron' great ship

 

 Who's word is law, if a Seeker with only a Tower tattoo wants to question an Empress who is not in physical possession of the Crystal Throne?   :o

 

 

Oh, Empress Fortuona, Seek Mor would like you try on this a'dam around your neck?   :'(

 

 

What happens if Empress Fortuona refusing to take an a’dam testing again?

 

 She will have broken the law, bizarrely enough.

 

 And yet, the Imperial House is not normally subject to any a’dam tests as minors, nor as adults, unless the Empress allows it.   In short it’s a conflict in the laws, or at the very least shows a two tiered society, with two separate set of laws applying to two different groups of people.

 

 

 What are some crimes a individual can get charged with by a Seeker?

 

 

 

Flight from a Seeker was a crime. Refusal to cooperate with a Seeker was a crime.

 

Source: The Shadow Rising, book 4, Chapter 38 “Hidden Faces” – Egeanin point of view, with a Seeker in one room, and Bethamin in the cellar with an a'dam on her neck

 

 

 

Yes by now Listeners, Seekers, at least one Hand and their High Blood boss should know that Sul’dam can be leashed with a’dam as a damane.   The story arcs of Alwhin, Suroth, Liandrin, Pura, Renna will all support this inquiry.  As will, the disappearances of Bethamin, Seta, Egeanin, Mat, Thom, Amathera will support this inquiry.  The death of Queen Tylin, Lord Turak, and the escape of ten to hundreds of Sea Folk Windfinders also have; created a dangerous stew in at least one Seeker’s mind.

 

  A Seeker, who was once in Lord Turak’s network of Seekers.   He is not a Seeker controlled by Suroth, nor Tuon, nor Galgan.  Seemingly an independent Seeker at work….

 

 

The High Lord Turak was a great man,” he murmured. “Perhaps one of the greatest the Empire has ever seen. A pity his so’jhin decided to follow him into death. Honorable of them, but it makes it impossible to be sure Domon was in the band that murdered the High Lord.” Bethamin flinched. Sometimes the Blood died at one another’s hands, of course, but the word murder was never mentioned. The Seeker continued, still peering into his cup without drinking. “The High Lord had ordered me to watch Suroth. He suspected she was a danger to the Empire itself. His own words. And with his death, she managed to gain command of the Forerunners. I have no evidence that she ordered his death, but there is much that is suggestive. Suroth brought a damane to Falme, a young woman who was Aes Sedai,” again, the name was flat and hard, “and who somehow escaped the very day that Turak died. Suroth also has a damane in her entourage who was once Aes Sedai. She has never been seen uncollared, but . . . ” He shrugged, as though that were a thing of no moment. Bethamin’s eyes popped. Who would uncollar a damane? A well-trained damane was a treat and a joy, but as well unleash a drunken grolm! “It seems very likely she has a marath’damane hidden among her property, too,” he went on, just as if he were not listing crimes little lower than treason. “I believe Suroth gave the order for sul’dam who managed to reach Tanchico to be killed, perhaps in order to hide Egeanin’s meetings with Aes Sedai. You sul’dam always say you can tell a marath’damane at sight, correct?”

 

Source: Winter’s Heart, book 9, Chapter 20 “Questions of Treason” - Bethamin point of view with a pale-haired, blue eyed Seanchan Seeker

 

 Seek Mor will find in Suroth's household, a marath'damane named Liandrin who is Aes Sedai as evidence for his speculations.  If and when Renna's body is found that's one more dead Sul'dam.

 

 Who raised up in status Suroth previously?  Tuon.

 

 

 

“Turak was a great man, but my duty is to the Empress, may she live forever, and through her, to the Empire.” He drank the brandy down in one long swallow, and his face became as hard as his voice. “Turak’s death is dust beside the danger facing the Empire. The Aes Sedai of these lands seek power in the Empire, a return to the days of chaos and murder when no man could close his eyes at night knowing he would wake, and they are aided by a venomous worm of treachery boring from within. Suroth may not even be that worm’s head. For the Empire’s sake, I dare not take her until I can kill the whole worm. Egeanin is a thread I can follow to the worm, and you are a thread to Egeanin. So you will renew your friendship with her, whatever it takes. Do you understand me?”

 

Source: Winter’s Heart, book 9, Chapter 20 “Questions of Treason” - Bethamin point of view with a pale-haired, blue eyed Seanchan Seeker

 

 Only two worms available to pick from as, only General Galgan or Tuon herself are higher in rank than Suroth was previously, among the Seanchan from Falme to Ebou Dar.  

 

 

   As Bethamin once thinks, “Even one of the Blood, even one of the High Blood, might quake at being questioned by a Seeker.” (W.H., Ch.20)   And yes, Bethamin comments in her thoughts, “Seekers were the secret hand of the Empress, might she live forever; in the Empress’s name, he could put even Suroth to the question, or Tuon herself” (W.H., Ch.20)  

 

 

 If one suspects the heir in line to become Empress has done some amount of wrongdoing, one needs to know where her bodyguards’ loyally lies, to the now Empress or to the Imperial House?  Seeker Mor learns than in Deathwatch Guard General Karede case, loyally is absolutely placed with Tuon—now Empress Fortuona.

 

 

Mor dashed off half his own wine in hurried gulps, then stared at his cup, seemed to realize what he had done, and made a visible effort to regain control of himself. “Furyk Karede,” he said briskly. “Born forty-two years ago to weavers, the property of one Jalid Magonine, a craftsman in Ancarid. Chosen at fifteen for training in the Deathwatch Guards. Cited twice for heroism and mentioned in dispatches three times, then, as a seven-year veteran, named to the bodyguard of the High Lady Tuon upon her birth.” That had not been her name then, of course, but mentioning her birth-name would have been an insult. “That same year, as one of three survivors of the first known attempt on her life, chosen for training as an officer. Service during the Muyami Uprising and the Jianmin Incident, more citations for heroism, more mentions in dispatches, and assignment back to the High Lady’s bodyguard just before her first true-name day.” Mor peered into his wine, then looked up suddenly. “At your request. Unusual, that. The following year, you took three serious wounds shielding her with your body against another set of assassins. She gave you her most precious possession, a doll. After more distinguished service, with further citations and mentions, you were selected for the bodyguard of the Empress herself, may she live forever, and served there until named to accompany the High Lord Turak to these lands with the Hailene. Times change, and men change, but before going to guard the throne, you made two other requests for assignment to the High Lady Tuon’s bodyguard. Most unusual. And you kept the doll until it was destroyed in the Great Fire of Sohima, a matter of ten years.”

 

Not for the first time, Karede was glad of the training that allowed him to maintain a smooth face no matter what. Careless expressions gave away too much to an opponent. He remembered the face of the small girl who had laid that doll on his litter. He could hear her still. You have protected my life, so you must take Emela to watch over you in turn, she said. She can’t really protect you, of course; she’s only a doll. But keep her to remind you that I will always hear if you speak my name. If I’m still alive, of course.

“My honor is loyalty,” he said, setting Ajimbura’s cup on the writing table carefully, so as not to slop wine onto his papers. However often the fellow polished the silver, Karede did not think he bothered to wash the thing. “Loyalty to the throne. Why did you come to me?”

 

Mor moved slightly, so the armchair was between them. No doubt he thought he was standing casually, but he was clearly ready to throw the winecup. He had a knife under his coat in the small of his back, and probably at least one other. “Three requests to join the High Lady Tuon’s bodyguard. And you kept the doll.”

 

“That much, I understand,” Karede told him dryly. The Guards were not supposed to form attachments to those they were sent to guard. The Deathwatch Guard served only the Crystal Throne, served whoever succeeded to the throne, with a whole heart and a whole faith. But he remembered that serious child’s face, already aware she might not live to do her duty yet trying to do it anyway, and he had kept the doll.

 

Source: The Crossroads of Twilight, book 10, Chapter 4 “The Tale of a Doll” – Deathwatch Guard General Karede point of view

 

 

 Do you really think that Seeker Almurat Mor was being totally forthright when he paid a visit to Deathwatch Guard General Karede?    

 

 

 I highly suspect not, at all.  Or as Karede once thinks, “If the Seeker was not playing him in some game of his own.” (CoT, Ch.4)

 

 

 Seeker Almurat Mor knows that Tuon might be the "worms head" of the supposed wrongdoings against the Empire.  And now this Seeker knows that Deathwatch Guard General Karede is loyal to Tuon.  So if Mor wants to remove the "worms head", he is going to have to remove the whole Deathwatch Guard.  That implying a military solution, not only a simple task of asking Empress Fortuona to take an a'dam testing.  General Galgan and his supporters are the one possible High Blood ally, a Seeker come use to remove Tuon and the Deathwatch Guard. But that means bring in soldiers loyal to Galgan personally, near to Ebou Dar.  It so happens Tylee just arrived in Ebou Dar, was that chance or a future war plan?    

 

 

 

 

 

    This scene below cracks me up, as Mat's later marriage to Tuon literally connects him to the events of when she disappeared. Not to mention a possible connection to Tylin's death, freeing Sea Folk Windfinders, and stealing damane, in the eyes of a Seeker.

 

 

. The Seekers had been on Egeanin’s scent before that night, and she would be wanted on charges of stealing damane now, as well, but the authorities would expect her to be riding as hard as she could and already leagues from Ebou Dar, not sitting just outside the city. Nothing except a coincidence of timing connected her to Tuon. Or to Mat, and that was important. Tylin certainly would have leveled her own charges against him—no woman was going to forgive a man tying her up and shoving her under a bed, even when she had suggested it—yet with any luck, he was beneath suspicion for anything else that had happened that night. With any luck, no one except Tylin had a thought for him at all.  :P

 

 

Source: Crossroads of Twilight, book 10, Chapter 1 “Time to Be Gone” – Mat Cauthon point of view, his thoughts, with Bayle Domon, Egeanin, Noal

 

 

“Perhaps Tylin was not murdered because she swore fealty, but because she had learned of things that were dangerous. She might have been careless in what she revealed to the boy on the pillows, and he carried word to Merrilin.

 

Source: Source: The Crossroads of Twilight, book 10, Chapter 4 “The Tale of a Doll” – Deathwatch Guard General Karede point of view

 

    And what might Tylin have learned?  That a special somebody can channel the Power? Precious?  A.K.A the former High Lady Tuon, now known as the Empress Fortuona?

 

Thom once did say that “Listeners really do seem to hear everything.” (W.H., Ch.28 – Mat’s point of view)

 

[singogreatest360]

if Fortuona did get tested and failed the A'dam test to become Damane  with the empire in the state it is i very much doubt it would be in the best interest of the Empire to make their only ruler Da'covale let alone a Damane just imagine the impact to the Empire. Put yourself in the Seekers shoes they serve not only the Empress but the Empire itself would that be in the best interest of the Empire?

 

But, what if they suspect her of having secret dealings with the tower. Even the raid won't change such a suspicion. They may suspect her dealings were with the Rebel AS and the rebellion itself was her doing.

 

Suroth, maybe working for her, was trying to make Morgase Queen. ANOTHER suspicious disappearance of a marath' damane. This one was to be royalty and of the Blood.

 

Her 'kidnapping' might have been staged. If Karede told the truth to a seeker, that Tuon was giving back to him, without blood shed, by the man she married, with open ties to AS. Suffice to say a Seekers head might explode.

 

And finding a channeler is suppose to be more likely in the same family. NOT leashing her can mean the entire Ruling line, Her line, will be men and women that can channel!

 

I can feel Seekers' heads exploding right now!

[algspkr]

 And yet, the Imperial House is not normally subject to any a’dam tests as minors, nor as adults, unless the Empress allows it.   In short it’s a conflict in the laws, or at the very least shows a two tiered society, with two separate set of laws applying to two different groups of people.

 

Where do you get this from?  All that is stated is that they are not normally tested for sul'dam.  There is no mention of them not being tested for damane, further not testing them for such seems illogical as they believe that if women who can channel are allowed to run free they will end up making everyone da'covale:

 

where the Dragon Reborn walked and marath'damane ran wild to kill and enslave where they would

 

I am not sure of the background of that quote as I found it using Ideal Seek, and it came from the one book I am missing: The Path of Daggers, Chapter 24.  It is obvious that they view women who can channel as dangerous animals, and I do not see them being willing to allow one on the throne.

[CUBAREY]

And yet, the Imperial House is not normally subject to any a’dam tests as minors, nor as adults, unless the Empress allows it.  In short it’s a conflict in the laws, or at the very least shows a two tiered society, with two separate set of laws applying to two different groups of people.

 

 

Where do you get this from?  All that is stated is that they are not normally tested for sul'dam.  There is no mention of them not being tested for damane, further not testing them for such seems illogical as they believe that if women who can channel are allowed to run free they will end up making everyone da'covale:

 

It's not a conflict of the laws.Seanchen Societyis very higherarchical with a maze of social strata all with different rights and duties, that the Royal Family would have its own strata. Moreover, The Empress, may shelive forever alredyhas the pwer andauthority to make anyone Da'covale.

[Graveyardhag]

 And yet, the Imperial House is not normally subject to any a’dam tests as minors, nor as adults, unless the Empress allows it.   In short it’s a conflict in the laws, or at the very least shows a two tiered society, with two separate set of laws applying to two different groups of people.

 

Where do you get this from?  All that is stated is that they are not normally tested for sul'dam.  There is no mention of them not being tested for damane, further not testing them for such seems illogical as they believe that if women who can channel are allowed to run free they will end up making everyone da'covale:

 

This is what I am asking too. They don't normally test for sul'dam does not automatically mean the imperial family is exempt from damane testing. And I have yet to find any reason for why they wouldn't be. They are all terrififed and sickened by women who can channel being unleashed. Why would they leave people untested?

[Cirin]

This is what I am asking too. They don't normally test for sul'dam does not automatically mean the imperial family is exempt from damane testing. And I have yet to find any reason for why they wouldn't be. They are all terrififed and sickened by women who can channel being unleashed. Why would they leave people untested?

 

Probably for the same reason that the wealthy always seem able to "get away with" crime, or evade paying their taxes.  Once you reach a certain point of political power, the rules no longer apply to you in the same way.

Now, I'm not saying that the royal family of Seanchan do or do not get tested for being damane - I don't think there's enough information to say they are or are not.  The only time they mention testing about the Royal Family is in relation to testing to being a sul'dam, which Tuon was allowed to do because the Empress didn't object to such a "hobby" as it were.  What I am saying, though, is once someone is made Empress, I think that person would have to demonstrate very, very apparently that they could channel before anyone even thought of questioning her, and even then they might not bother.  After all, the Empress, particularly if she is modeled on an Imperial family like Japan's, is much like a living diety - they're not subject to the same societal norms.

 

This is all speculation, of course, but I merely bring it up to say that I see no reason that the Empress could not get away with being a channeler.  After all, you're supposed to have been caught long before that.

[jadelollipop]

I just finished the chapter introducing Tuon in Winter's Heart. The discussion of Seekers being able to question/arrest members of the Imperial family came to mind when I read this discussion between Anath (Semirhage)and Tuon

 

"I am sure Suroth has only the best interest of the Empire for ambition" . . .Tuon nodded. She herself was not sure at all. That sort of sureness could lead to the Tower of the Ravens even for her. Perhaps especially for her.

 

In line with this topic,just how sure is Tuon that she will never channel?

 

 

[Naffy]

Rand:  Hey Mat, how's it going buddy?  Long time no see.

Mat:  Not too bad buddy, say you wanna go get a bee.....

Tuon:  I did not give you permission to speak, Toy.

Rand:  Mat, you better put your wench on a leash, bro.

[farthammer]

If Seanchan all hit the deck like they were being attacked by mortars every time the Empress farts, how much more power or control could the ability to channel really add to that anyways?  You're already at the top of the hierarchy, you'd just be one-upping yourself.