Fortuona on a leash

[singogreatest360]

I have a new theory for the next events in Fortuona's life.

 

Now we all know sul'dam can channel, but the question I asked myself is: "What would an ambitious person do if they learned sul'dam can channel and want to move up in power?"

 

Put a leash on Fortuona's neck. A damane can not be anything but a damane. She'll go to the pins and whoever has the most power/claim will become Empress/Emperor.

 

This is my theory: She will be leashed. She will go through weeks of damane training and become humbled(Giving her a emotional connection to Egwene). Also they will teach her Traveling. King Beslan and Lieutenant-General Tylee Khirgan will find out that all sul'dam can channel and get Furyk Karede in on a plan to break her free and put her back on the throne. She will Travel her and her followers into the palace. She will be put in a situation that forces her to channel to kill. She does and successfully gets put back on top, by killing all opposition(Fulfilling Seanchan's biggest fear of marath'damane using the power to take control.) She will want to free damane, but will fear them so she will ask for a truce with Egwene in exchange for use of the Oath Rod.

 

On Egwene's part

 

The Tower will want war with the Seanchan and Elayne and Nynaeve's deal will come out now that the tower is whole. Egwene will be in trouble and the truce might save her.

 

This fulfills two of her dreams

 

A golden female hawk touches her and they are tied together.

 

Egwene  walks a ledge on a cliff. The ledge collapses leaving her hanging by her fingertips. A Seanchan woman with a sword climbs down the cliff and offers to help.

 

Might be Tylee

[algspkr]

It seems unlikely, especially the "weeks" part, but I like it.

[Charlz Guybon]

Yeah, it'll be short lived if it happens, but it's either this or she channels to save someones life.

[Hael Me]

Interesting theory!

 

Something must be done about the situation with Seanchan and Damane if they truly are to be accepted by their soon to be allies in the Last Battle, the people of the main continent who maybe fear channelers but also respect them.

 

I have always thought that the Dream of Egwene and the golden hawk refers to Berelain - Egwene is connected to Gawyn, and I think Berelain will be connected to his half brother Galad in ToM, where Perrin's forces will meet the Whitecloaks.

[Dida]

I have a new theory for the next events in Fortuona's life.

 

Now we all know sul'dam can channel, but the question I asked myself is: "What would an ambitious person do if they learned sul'dam can channel and want to move up in power?"

 

Put a leash on Fortuona's neck. A damane can not be anything but a damane. She'll go to the pins and whoever has the most power/claim will become Empress/Emperor.

 

Why not name in your theory "who" is going to be behind this plot to leash Fortuona, in your mind "successfully"?

 

 

 

 As in:

 

1. General Galgan with his political & military supporters,

2.  Suroth's tales and story while being questioned by the Seekers

3.  A mysterious Seeker who Egeanin came across earlier in Tanchico,

4.  The whole back story of an psudeo-Daughter of the Nine Moons created by Semirhage previously,

5.  The deaths of Lord Turak and Queen Tylin. The removal from Power and Status of Suroth by Tuon in Ebou Dar.  All of three leaders were from the very same Seachan Noble House, how do we know this?  Each worn "Blue" lacquered fingernails which openly states their Noble House ties.

6.  The disappearance of two sul'dam who each once worn an a'dam, and another sul'dam who flee with Bethamin.

7.  Multiple murder investigations of mysterious sul'dam deaths: one found poisoned to death, Alwhin and another just waiting to be found outside of a town, Renna.    

8.  How do the Seekers believe tens to hundreds of Sea Folk Windfinders escaped the Ebou Dar Palace, escaping their a'dam leashes, on the very same night Tuon disappeared herself?

 

One cannot just simply expect the Empress to be subject to an a'dam test willingly, as its against their Imperial custom to be tested.  For an a'dam test to even occur directly implies that Seekers who are not under the Empress control are behind this testing.  However, those Seekers can only do this if they have support of another high ranking High Blood, e.g. Galgan. To do otherwise means death for those Seekers without political support.

 

Galgan goals and desires in regard to this Seeker plot, matter big time.

 

 

I believe it would strengthen your theory if you included a role or roles for some of the Aes Sedai damane who have been captured for a long-time already:

 

Pura

Myelin

 

 

Particular if you noted that tension filled scene between Pura and Liandrin, and thought about how in turn a newly captured Elaida would react if she saw either Pura and/or Liandrin.  Elaida knows Liandrin was a Black Ajah for what previously occurred in the White Tower, and Pura obliviously recognized who Liandrin was. Pura should wonder why Liandrin was not leashed by Alwhin?  

 

 

 

 

This is my theory: She will be leashed. She will go through weeks of damane training and become humbled(Giving her a emotional connection to Egwene).

 

 How can an Empress Fortuona be leashed, considering her Deathwatch Guards & Ogier Gardeners follow her commands and nobody else's?

 

 You imply Fortuona would freely take an a'dam test. I'm highly skeptical Fortuona is a fool, nor fool enough to even agree to take that test.  Why?  It would directly lessen her political status, and it would be a direct slap in the face of the Imperial Seanchan Throne: "lowering her eyes".  Individuals of the Seanchan Imperial House do not become sul'dam nor damane willingly.  By definition a person who is of sul'dam status is not of the Imperial House, nor did Tuon ever in status become a su'dam.      

 

Also they will teach her Traveling.

 

Who is "they"?  

 

As it currently stands the Empress owns the largest number of damane in the Empire, bar none.  However, who are you claiming "owns" Elaida now?

 

 

King Beslan and Lieutenant-General Tylee Khirgan will find out that all sul'dam can channel and get Furyk Karede in on a plan to break her free and put her back on the throne. She will Travel her and her followers into the palace.

 

 If General Galgan and the Seekers are going to attempt an overthrow of Empress Fortuona with the official subtext reason being because she is a marath'damane.  It would not be surprising to later read in TofM that an assassination attempt is going to be made on King Beslan's life--while "hunting" as his mother Queen Tylin once hinted at to Elayne & Nynaeve.  Galgan knows that Beslan sworn directly to the Daughter of Nine Moons and only then to the Seanchan Empire through her.  Remove Fortuona and there would be a 'civil war' immediately.

 

"I, Beslan of House Mitsobar, pledge my fealty and service to the Daughter of Nine Moons and through her to the Seanchan Empire, now and for all time, save that she chooses to release me of her own will.  My lands and throne are hers, and I yield them to her hand.  So I do swear before the Light."

 

 

Source: The Gathering Storm, book 12, Chapter "Gambits" - Tuon's point of view with Beslan speaking, and these individuals in the same room: Selucia 'Truthspeaker', Captain-General Galgan, Banner-General Najirah, Banner-General Yamada, Faverde Nothish, Amenar Shumada, Yuril 'Hand for Tuon', Sul'dam Lanelle & Melitene, Deathwatch General Karede.

 

 

Do I think Empress Fortuona is in political and mortal danger now?  

 

Yes, yes I do.

 

 

She will be put in a situation that forces her to channel to kill.

 

Good assumption made here.  

 

Though, their is a much disputed question about whether or not Fortuona is a Learner or Sparker.  If she is an unknowing Sparker, it should mean her channeling abilities are farther along, than if she is a Learner.  There is also the question if she have a "block" or not, similar to what Nynaeve once had?  

 

I'm in the camp which believes that Fortuona is a Sparker who has gained a "Slowed" appearance from prior unknowing channeling, akin to Nynaeve's past experiences.  Except that Fortuona while wearing using an a'dam to connect to an damane, was "Buffered" from channeling sickness as 3 of 4 Wilders in the Westlands tend to received if untrained.  

 

 

I suspect that Fortuona will be forced to channel to protect herself soon, thus exposing herself in Seanchan eyes as a marath'damane.  That is if anyone set politically against her, sees her channel and survives to tell the tale to somebody else.

 

At minimum we agree that Fortuona will channel.  :)  

 

 

 

 

[singogreatest360]

Interesting theory!

 

I have always thought that the Dream of Egwene and the golden hawk refers to Berelain

 

The Golden Hawk in flight is Artur Hawkwing's sign.

 

It is flown in Mayene and Seanchan controlled lands. So we will see.

 

"Seanchan flags flew, proclaiming this city a part of their empire; the banner that fluttered highest above the city displayed a golden hawk in flight, clutching three bolts of lightning. It was fringed with blue." TGS CH 35

 

Plus I hate Berelain and want her to go back to Mayene and never leave.

 

 

If General Galgan and the Seekers are going to attempt an overthrow of Empress Fortuona with the official subtext reason being because she is a marath'damane.  It would not be surprising to later read in TofM that an assassination attempt is going to be made on King Beslan's life--while "hunting" as his mother Queen Tylin once hinted at to Elayne & Nynaeve.  Galgan knows that Beslan sworn directly to the Daughter of Nine Moons and only then to the Seanchan Empire through her.  Remove Fortuona and there would be a 'civil war' immediately.

Galgan might attempt try to convince Beslan that Fortuona herself killed Queen Tylin for Mat. LOL. It could happen.

 

1. General Galgan with his political & military supporters,

2.  Suroth's tales and story while being questioned by the Seekers

3.  A mysterious Seeker who Egeanin came across earlier in Tanchico,

4.  The whole back story of an psudeo-Daughter of the Nine Moons created by Semirhage previously,

5.  The deaths of Lord Turak and Queen Tylin. The removal from Power and Status of Suroth by Tuon in Ebou Dar.  All of three leaders were from the very same Seachan Noble House, how do we know this?  Each worn "Blue" lacquered fingernails which openly states their Noble House ties.

6.  The disappearance of two sul'dam who each once worn an a'dam, and another sul'dam who flee with Bethamin.

7.  Multiple murder investigations of mysterious sul'dam deaths: one found poisoned to death, Alwhin and another just waiting to be found outside of a town, Renna.    

8.  How do the Seekers believe tens to hundreds of Sea Folk Windfinders escaped the Ebou Dar Palace, escaping their a'dam leashes, on the very same night Tuon disappeared herself?

 

I was thinking all of the above

 

How can an Empress Fortuona be leashed, considering her Deathwatch Guards & Ogier Gardeners follow her commands and nobody else's?

 

I was thinking a sneak attack similar to Siuan's disposal.

 

As it currently stands the Empress owns the largest number of damane in the Empire, bar none.  However, who are you claiming "owns" Elaida now?

 

When the Seanchan get Traveling every Damane in Seanchan controled lands will know the weave in lest than a week.

[farthammer]

Mostly I figure whatever channeling ability she has will just serve so that she can be bound with the power, as the AS are.  Supposedly to Rand, though we're not sure how thorough or personal that will be.

[draconian]

another possiblity is the use of the oath rod on fortuona.

 

"He shall bind the nine moons to serve him."

 

oath rods were called binder in the AoL.

[Shadow Rider]

I don't think Fortuna will be leashed.....Brandon was asked if Tuon could channel, Brandon confirmed this and he also added that if Tuon were to be Leashed it would be very bad or something like that, maybe a hint.

I think Fortuna will play a very big roll in TG...

and I think she will use the OP to save Mat....I don't think she will be leashed.

[balefireruinssteaks]

I know we would like to think that just because she CAN channel or at least learn to channel that she will be the catalyst for revealing this to the Seanchan.  As easy to say she will realize she can channel and as Empress release the damane and then go train at the Tower to become yet another ruling Aes Sedai.

 

Fortuona, I don't think, will channel or be leashed.  I can't imagine a situation where she will suddenly change everything she has ever known on the spur of the moment to channel.  She's already past the age when a woman would spark, and it's ingrained in her that channeling apart from the a'dam is an abomination.  I couldn't put her in a situation where channeling is the instinctive option for her.  She was trained from childhood to protect herself both physically and politically and is very skilled at both so her first instincts would be to physically fight or maneuver people politically to protect herself.

 

Just because someone CAN channel, doesn't mean they will choose to channel, as she herself stated.

[Durinax]

I know we would like to think that just because she CAN channel or at least learn to channel that she will be the catalyst for revealing this to the Seanchan.  As easy to say she will realize she can channel and as Empress release the damane and then go train at the Tower to become yet another ruling Aes Sedai.

 

Fortuona, I don't think, will channel or be leashed.  I can't imagine a situation where she will suddenly change everything she has ever known on the spur of the moment to channel.  She's already past the age when a woman would spark, and it's ingrained in her that channeling apart from the a'dam is an abomination.  I couldn't put her in a situation where channeling is the instinctive option for her.  She was trained from childhood to protect herself both physically and politically and is very skilled at both so her first instincts would be to physically fight or maneuver people politically to protect herself.

 

Just because someone CAN channel, doesn't mean they will choose to channel, as she herself stated.

the two suldam that travelled with mat started channelling really late, presumably so did all the elderly women that where with the rebels.

I think there will be a position where fortuona has no other choice and as such channels to save herself

[algspkr]

another possiblity is the use of the oath rod on fortuona.

 

"He shall bind the nine moons to serve him."

 

oath rods were called binder in the AoL.

 

I don't believe that no one has made that connection before.  This seems incredibly likely to me.  Could this be the small thing; if it's an accurate prediction it is definitely a facepalm.

 

I know we would like to think that just because she CAN channel or at least learn to channel that she will be the catalyst for revealing this to the Seanchan.  As easy to say she will realize she can channel and as Empress release the damane and then go train at the Tower to become yet another ruling Aes Sedai.

 

Fortuona, I don't think, will channel or be leashed.  I can't imagine a situation where she will suddenly change everything she has ever known on the spur of the moment to channel.  She's already past the age when a woman would spark, and it's ingrained in her that channeling apart from the a'dam is an abomination.  I couldn't put her in a situation where channeling is the instinctive option for her.  She was trained from childhood to protect herself both physically and politically and is very skilled at both so her first instincts would be to physically fight or maneuver people politically to protect herself.

 

Just because someone CAN channel, doesn't mean they will choose to channel, as she herself stated.

 

Tuon may be at the upper limit for sparking, and we have seen that suldam can "spark" in their own way, but it does seem unlikely that Tuon will start channeling unless leashed.

 

 

[Graveyardhag]

The Seanchan women are tested up till age 25 for Damane. even the Sul'dam.

I have never seen anywhere that the imperial family are exempt from this testing. In fact, I am convinced I have seen it stated that they are tested. I'm not sure where I saw it, but I am sure I did. I could be wrong of course. I'll have to go and do some searching.

 

Going by that, Fortuona has another 6 years of testing for damane. BS says that if someone puts an a'dam on her, it would be very bad. He also says that she can channel. I dont know if he means she can channel in the sense that other captured sul'dam can channel, or if he means that she has already, unknowingly channeled.

 

So 2 possible conclusions here - Fortuona does away with the testing somehow, before her next test with the a'dam

or

She doesn't, either believing it wont hold her, or for a political reason. Or because she thinks she needs to be leashed of course.

 

Or Dida is right and the imperial family are the only ones allowed to run around the empire as potentially dangerous channelers.

[Charlz Guybon]

The Seanchan women are tested up till age 25 for Damane. even the Sul'dam.

I have never seen anywhere that the imperial family are exempt from this testing. In fact, I am convinced I have seen it stated that they are tested. I'm not sure where I saw it, but I am sure I did. I could be wrong of course. I'll have to go and do some searching.

 

Going by that, Fortuona has another 6 years of testing for damane. BS says that if someone puts an a'dam on her, it would be very bad. He also says that she can channel. I dont know if he means she can channel in the sense that other captured sul'dam can channel, or if he means that she has already, unknowingly channeled.

I'm pretty sure he means like the other sul'dam. Normally it would take many more years working with the a'dam to get to the point where a suldam could be leashed then Toun has had, but Toun has some advantages that ironically work against her. Most sul'dam get relatively little time working with the a'dam because there are so many more sul'dam than damane. However, since she's the Daughter of the Nine Moons, Toun can practice with the a'dam every day. Hell, we even see that she's proficient at duel wielding them. This mean she likely has a lot more working hours on the a'dam then sul'dam 5-10 years her senior. Thus, if she's tested for the a'dam any time soon, she's likely fail.

[algspkr]

The Seanchan women are tested up till age 25 for Damane. even the Sul'dam.

I have never seen anywhere that the imperial family are exempt from this testing. In fact, I am convinced I have seen it stated that they are tested. I'm not sure where I saw it, but I am sure I did. I could be wrong of course. I'll have to go and do some searching.

 

Going by that, Fortuona has another 6 years of testing for damane. BS says that if someone puts an a'dam on her, it would be very bad. He also says that she can channel. I dont know if he means she can channel in the sense that other captured sul'dam can channel, or if he means that she has already, unknowingly channeled.

I'm pretty sure he means like the other sul'dam. Normally it would take many more years working with the a'dam to get to the point where a suldam could be leashed then Toun has had, but Toun has some advantages that ironically work against her. Most sul'dam get relatively little time working with the a'dam because there are so many more sul'dam than damane. However, since she's the Daughter of the Nine Moons, Toun can practice with the a'dam every day. Hell, we even see that she's proficient at duel wielding them. This mean she likely has a lot more working hours on the a'dam then sul'dam 5-10 years her senior. Thus, if she's tested for the a'dam any time soon, she's likely fail.

 

Makes me wonder if they will test the empress.

[singogreatest360]

 

Going by that, Fortuona has another 6 years of testing for damane. BS says that if someone puts an a'dam on her, it would be very bad. He also says that she can channel. I dont know if he means she can channel in the sense that other captured sul'dam can channel, or if he means that she has already, unknowingly channeled.

 

 

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that once someone test positive as sul'dam or damane they aren't tested again because it'll be pointless.

 

It will have to be a sneak attack: wrap her and her guards up with damane weaving air. Then throw the collar on her neck.

 

 

Tuon may be at the upper limit for sparking, and we have seen that suldam can "spark" in their own way, but it does seem unlikely that Tuon will start channeling unless leashed.

 

My thoughts exactly.

[Graveyardhag]

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that once someone test positive as sul'dam or damane they aren't tested again because it'll be pointless

 

They don't retest the damane, they do retest the sul'dam, until they turn 25. It's from a Bethamin POV, she says she passed by failing every time.

[singogreatest360]

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that once someone test positive as sul'dam or damane they aren't tested again because it'll be pointless

 

They don't retest the damane, they do retest the sul'dam, until they turn 25. It's from a Bethamin POV, she says she passed by failing every time.

 

Correct. Now the question is: Does she HAVE to take the test? Probably not.

 

It seems unlikely, especially the "weeks" part, but I like it.

 

Maybe, but it's been implied that Elayne (We know no other woman except Melaine in the SERIES to be pregnant) will have her babies on the day:

     

     "Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed.

     Once for mourning, once for birth.

     Red on black, the Dragon's blood stains the rock of Shayol Ghul.

     In the Pit of Doom shall his blood free men from the Shadow."

 

If the LB is the same day as Elayne's childbirth, then we have between 153 and 188 days until the day.

 

"Childbirth  usually occurs about 38 weeks after conception; i.e., approximately 40 weeks from the last normal menstrual period (LNMP) in humans. The World Health Organization defines normal term for delivery as between 37 weeks and 42 weeks."

 

Elayne got Knocked Up

696   Saban-2   Feb-17

"Caressing the Child"

716   Saban-22   Mar-08

End of TGS

802   Saven-23   Jun-02

 

0   Aine-8   Mar-23  being Winternight.

 

Melaine marries Bael.

519   Maighdal-21   Aug-24

Min view Melaine is pregnant, but Melaine just found out that morning. I'm thinking 1-2 months pregnant at most. 2 months seems like a logical time for he to get her hopes up and ask for "Caressing the Child"{Note Elayne had it done 20 days pregnant.} So I'll do the math from 30 days pregnant.

614   Danu-4   Nov-27

End of TGS

802   Saven-23   Jun-02

 

If she is 218 days pregnant (If 1 month pregnant at the time of Min's viewing) at the end of TGS, Then she has between 41 and 62 days until childbirth and maybe the LB

 

Note Egwene was damane for 58 days.

185   Choren-24   Sep-24  

243   Nesan-26   Nov-21

 

If the LB is Melaine's childbirth we don't have much time. Between 41 and 62 days.

If the LB is Elayne's childbirth we have between 153 and 188 days until the day. A good amount of time.

 

according to http://www.stevenac.net/wot/tl1000.htm#book9 timeline

[Graveyardhag]

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that once someone test positive as sul'dam or damane they aren't tested again because it'll be pointless

 

They don't retest the damane, they do retest the sul'dam, until they turn 25. It's from a Bethamin POV, she says she passed by failing every time.

 

Correct. Now the question is: Does she HAVE to take the test? Probably not.

 

I'd take a stab at saying yes, they do have to myself.

 

If I had an option of not taking a test, and staying as a thouroughly respected member of my society, or taking a test and maybe having to be leashed like an animal, and treated like one as well... I wouldn't be taking that test. I wouldn't imagine anyone around me would be taking it either.

 

 

[singogreatest360]

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that once someone test positive as sul'dam or damane they aren't tested again because it'll be pointless

 

They don't retest the damane, they do retest the sul'dam, until they turn 25. It's from a Bethamin POV, she says she passed by failing every time.

 

Correct. Now the question is: Does she HAVE to take the test? Probably not.

 

I'd take a stab at saying yes, they do have to myself.

 

If I had an option of not taking a test, and staying as a thouroughly respected member of my society, or taking a test and maybe having to be leashed like an animal, and treated like one as well... I wouldn't be taking that test. I wouldn't imagine anyone around me would be taking it either.

 

 

 

True but she's Empress now. They fear marath' damane will take control. She's already in control.

 

My next question is: Can she refuse?

 

She has to have guessed by now that she can be collared.

[farthammer]

Wait, hasn't she already participated in training damane?  It seems to me that dirty little secret regarding sul`dam would've already been exposed if they kept testing past that point?

[Dida]

  It is curious that in Tuon's very first appearance in the story, this danger is mentioned:

 

Two of them had died in those struggles, so far, and three had tried to kill her. A sister and a brother had been made da’covale and had their names stricken from the records as firmly as if it had been discovered they could channel. Her place was far from secure even now. A single misstep could see her dead, or worse, stripped and sold on the public block. Blessings of the Light, when she smiled, she still looked sixteen! At best!

 

Source: Winter's Heart, Chapter 14 "What a Veil Hides" - Tuon point of view, her thoughts, with Selucia in her private room on the 'Victory of Kidron'

 

 

  What Tuon believes is a blessing of the light, her youthful appearance, might be quite damning evidence of 'Slowing' to any Seekers fishing for evidence of supposed wrongdoing on her part and or orders. 

 

 

I have never seen anywhere that the imperial family are exempt from this testing. In fact, I am convinced I have seen it stated that they are tested. I'm not sure where I saw it, but I am sure I did. I could be wrong of course. I'll have to go and do some searching.

 

 

  Tuon herself stated that she had to "ask" to be tested as an "adult", even to have the training which a "sul'dam" gains, directly to the Empress.  The Empress had to openly allow a now adult Tuon to be tested--'by being silent'.  Note Tuon never asked to have the other half of the a'dam testing to be done--to become a damane.  Nor do we know exactly when a young women who is a Sparker can be leashed as an damane--only after the Spark appears?

 

Many had thought it odd when Tuon tested for sul’dam on reaching adulthood, though none could gainsay her, then. Except her mother, who had allowed it by remaining silent. Actually becoming a sul’dam was unthinkable, of course, but she found as much enjoyment in training damane as in training horses, and she was as good at one as the other.

 

 

Source: Winter's Heart, Chapter 14 "What a Veil Hides" - Tuon point of view with her damane, sul'dam & Selucia on the 'Victory of Kidron'

 

 

  If the Imperial House is not exempt from common everyday a'dam testing, for both children and adults, then why should the Empress be bothered if Tuon wanted to be tested as an adult? 

 

 

  As even Tuon herself states Sul'dam are not of the Imperial House by definition.  For an Imperial House young female to become a Sul'dam in status, it would mean losing her as a possibly heir to become Empress of the Empire.  That's one reason the Empress does not let her children be tested with an a'dam at all--Tuon was denied as a child this.  The ability to channel can be hidden. That also another reason why family members who have become damane are removed from the family tree's history.  That is also why the full Imperial Family Tree History is a top secret, to hide its very own connections to channelers--male, females, learners, sparkers-- across the history of Seanchan.   

 

The whole point of the Empress having many, many children to find a good heir... right? Why should the Empress care if the heir can channel herself? If a heir is the best candidate to rule in the future, rules can be bended by an Empress who's very words are law. Those who disagree with an sitting Empress rule and law, would not live to tell the tale, I'd bet.  In Tuon's own case the common rules were bent by her mother the Empress, I suspect knowingly, to keep the best possibly heir alive and in position do her future duty to the Empire. 

 

 

Going by that, Fortuona has another 6 years of testing for damane. BS says that if someone puts an a'dam on her, it would be very bad. He also says that she can channel. I dont know if he means she can channel in the sense that other captured sul'dam can channel, or if he means that she has already, unknowingly channeled.

 

  Tuon's own husband Mat Cauthon knows for that Tuon--now Fortuona-- can channel for a fact. Brandon wasn't stating anything new here.  Mat told Tuon that too, but Tuon believes she has a "choice" in the matter...ROLF. 

 

Yet even Tuon should know that an a'dam would leash her as an damane if given the opportunity.

 

 

  In the back of Bethamin mind was this question:

 

"Did she almost see the weaves, or did she really see?

 

Source:  Chapter 20 "Questions of Treason" - Bethamin point of view

 

  Tuon on the other hand specifically tells Mat Cauthon that the weaves melted when they touched him.  So Tuon, err Fortuona, knows for a fact she can see and read weaves.

 

"I didn't bring these three out of Ebou Dar so you could take them back,"  Mt said firmly, sliding himself along the bed. The foxhead grew colder still, and Tuon made a startled sound.

 

"How did you ... do that, Toy?  The weave ... melted ... when it touched you."

 

Source: Knife of Dream, Chapter "A Short Path" - Mat Cauthon point of view, with Tuon, Selucia, Teslyn, Edesina, Joline in a Tinker Wagon with Valan Luca's Circus

 

 

 

  Note the importance of reading weaves, in Bethamin's mind, and what impact it will have on the Empire and herself:

 

 

Sometimes she thought she felt the channeling, too. Even sul’dam had to undergo the yearly testing, until their twenty-fifth naming day, and she had passed by failing every time. Only . . . There would be a new testing after Renna and Seta were discovered, a new testing to find the marath’damane who somehow had evaded the first. The Empire itself might tremble before such a blow. And with the image of Renna and Seta burned into her brain, she had known with total certainty that after those tests, Bethamin Zeami would no longer be a respected citizen. Instead, a damane called Bethamin would serve the Empire.

 

 

Source:  Chapter 20 "Questions of Treason" - Bethamin point of view

 

  Tuon can read weaves....

 

 

 

It will have to be a sneak attack: wrap her and her guards up with damane weaving air. Then throw the collar on her neck.

 

  Any sneak attack upon Tuon would require a far larger effort than this. Why?  Remember those 500+ personally loyal Deathwatch Guards who's very lives are tied to Tuon's very own?

 

In the outer cabin, the Deathwatch Guards, lining the walls in armor lacquered blood red and nearly black green, stiffened at her entrance. That is, they stiffened if statues could be said to stiffen. Hard-faced men, they and five hundred more like them had been charged personally with Tuon’s safety. Any or all would die to protect her. They would die if she did. Every man had volunteered, asked to be in her guard. Seeing the veil, grizzled Captain Musenge ordered only two to accompany her on deck, where two dozen Ogier Gardeners in the red-and-green made a line to either side of the doorway, great black-tasseled axes upright in front of them and grim eyes watching for any danger even here. They would not die if she did, but they also had asked to be in her guard, and she would rest her life in any of those huge hands without a qualm.

 

Source: Winter's Heart, Chapter 14 "What a Veil Hides" - Tuon point of view

 

  Fortuona we know ordered her Deathwatch Guards & Ogier Gardeners to create a sense of security and safety in Ebou Dar, after Mat Cauthon was attacked by a Sammael's Gholam in town.  For any sneak attack to work successfully against Fortuona it would have to succeed in taking over the whole darn city-state of Ebou Dar proper. Not just capturing Fortuona with a leash, as her Deathguard Guards & Ogier Gardeners would fight to the death to free her from capture.

 

One should also throw in the resistance of Fortuona's own personal Sul'dam loyal to the Empress. And damane like Myelin would are loyal to Fortuona supporters too.  Then there is the oath of the King of Altara Beslan gave freely to Fortuona. 

 

No, trying to give an a'dam on a sitting Seanchan Empress would be seen as an act of open war against her rule, I suspect.  It would require I think, moving secretly thousands and thousands of native outlying Seanchan military soldiers into Ebou Dar, who all seem to believe the pseudo-Daughter of the Nine Moons story Semirhage created previously. 

 

 

A little sneak attack is not going work here, I think, a bigger attack is going to be needed.  All for the purpose of taking over control and defeating all of Empress Fortuona current supporters.

 

 

One tactical problem for General Galgan if he supports an overthrow of Empress Fortuona, is where is he going to bring in soldiers from?  Tarabon? Amadicia? Altara? Return soldier by to'raken from Murandy?

 

 

I'd guess from Amadicia, as Tylee was once in charge of Amadicia. Tylee is now close to Ebou Dar too.  Yet Tylee herself seems to have a different set of opinions with General Galgan, about the ongoing wars and possibly aligning with outlander nations--Perrin et la.  Maybe Tylee will be facing with a dangerous choice in the near future, of who to support? Galgan secret plans or Empress Fortuona?

[singogreatest360]

Wait, hasn't she already participated in training damane?  It seems to me that dirty little secret regarding sul`dam would've already been exposed if they kept testing past that point?

 

It take years and/or allot of experience to reach the age where EVERY sul'dam can be collared.

 

POVs show that sul'dam sometimes test positive as damane before 25, but it's no big deal. They don't connect being sul'dam to channeling.

 

The secret is ALL damane can be sul'dam and sul'dam are learners. Marath' damane by Seanchan standards.

 

Once the collar is on a damane their real names are forgotten by all and they never are removed from the collar until dead.

[Crael123]

im sorry but i find this idea helarious

[farthammer]

It take years and/or allot of experience to reach the age where EVERY sul'dam can be collared.

 

POVs show that sul'dam sometimes test positive as damane before 25, but it's no big deal. They don't connect being sul'dam to channeling.

 

The secret is ALL damane can be sul'dam and sul'dam are learners. Marath' damane by Seanchan standards.

 

Once the collar is on a damane their real names are forgotten by all and they never are removed from the collar until dead.

 

Yeah I realize what the secret is.  I don't quite remember anything where a sul`dam tested positive for damane, and it was considered no big deal, but I haven't read the whole series in quite a while.  I was under the impression that testing positive for damane meant they could be controlled like any other damane.  All that is left is if a sul`dam can be controlled but is not able to actually channel to any noticeable degree?