rands death....

[keravon3]

I have talked to many WoT fanatics and one of the things many people dont agree on is weather rand will die during or at the end of TG.

there are three catogories of belife the first that he will die during or at the end of TG the secon being that he will live and lewis therins(sp) conchesness will die and the third that rand will be driven crazy by lewis therin and the taint that still seems to be apart of him thus breaking the world (again) and killing him self in the proces

[RobertAlexWillis]

It is my personal opinion that Rand al'Thor will physically die, that in that death he will accomplish the defeat of the Dark One, allowing the Lews Therin Telamon part of his soul to rest, and then be somehow reborn, as Rand al'Thor, not insane.

 

 

I know there are many opinions out there, that is just mine.

[demonspawn]

What about Mins viewing of Avienda having children to Rand? They've only slept together once and she's not pregnant yet.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Thats why he would have to come back ... perhaps I should have said resurrected or revived instead of reborn, I didn't mean reborn as a baby.

[Kadere]

he doesn't have to come back, Aviendha and Rand are both in Arad Doman right now, and Rand only needs like 20 minutes to do his business. Her pregenacy doesn't support or deny the resurrection theory.

[RobertAlexWillis]

You are correct, it is physiologically possible for Rand and Aviendha to take care of conception any number of times before Tarmon Gai'don. I was clarifying my point about being "reborn", not saying that Aviendha's future pregnancy is evidence that Rand is coming back.

 

 

I do think he's coming back though.

[Taishar Manetheren]

I hope Rand will live after TG. But i also wish that RJ makes his death and resurection nothing like any theory that anyone here thought of.

i want it to be original RJ style and surprising and not all the body switching, lews therin taking over, or world of dreams respawning or any other theory i read here!

[okstate91]

ya, everyone having a guess about whos going to die ruins the fun of readin the book, b/c thats all ur concentreting on, instaed of the actual text.

[Zardi]

Meh, not really. We don't have actual text, yet ;)

[t_6005]

he doesn't have to come back' date=' Aviendha and Rand are both in Arad Doman right now, and Rand only needs like 20 minutes to do his business. Her pregenacy doesn't support or deny the resurrection theory.[/quote']

What's wrong with you, you fool? Don't you know Rand lasts hours? He apparently has enough sex with Elayne to make Brigitte get drunk off her ass, and that means some major non-break time.

 

Why, I'm male, but you must be a macho.

[Luckers]

I think Rand and Moridin will swap bodies, and that Rand's body will be slain by Alivia. There is some evidence for this... the increasing strength of the bond between them, the phrasing of the various prophetic visions of Rand's death and so forth.

[Limedust]

I tend to agree with Luckers. It seems likely that the "joining" accomplished by balefire between Moridin and Rand will culminate in an eventual siwtching of bodies, with Alivia somehow facilitating that transfer. I think as well that Alivia will kill Rand's body with Moridin in it, perhaps to the horror of those witnessing the act. I still wonder, though, about the ship sailing away with Min, Aviendha, and Elayne standing over Rand's dead body. Ruse? Trickery? Something else?

[RobertAlexWillis]

A possible spin on the body switching ...

 

 

What if Alivia learns how to transmigrate souls? The body switch takes place on its own, and then Alivia "prepares" Rand's original body for transmigration by stripping it of it's then current (Moridin) owner's memory and soul. She then kills Moridin's body, snatches Rand's soul, and stuffs it back in his own body.

 

 

Hmmmmmm ..... I guess it depends on whether or not ANY mortal can transmigrate a soul.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Also, I wonder if the Dark One's "mark" for the Chosen is attached to the body, or the soul? If it is, in some fashion, linked to the corporeal, then getting Moridin's body could be Rand's ID badge to get into the Pit of Doom. I mean, I'm sure the Dark One can tell the difference once he gets there, but it sure would help with the outer "security".

[demonspawn]

If the mark is the same one recieved by Alviarin then I would assume that it is more likely that it is attatched to the soul since it isn't visible. Also with very few of the forsaken occupying their original bodies it would be easier to "keep track" of them as it were. It may also explain how Asmodean could have been tracked down.

[demonspawn]

I have a theory on the whole transmigrating souls issue, what if it ends up as a three-way battle between Rand, Lews therin and moridin/Ishy for control of both bodies. Maybe it could turn out that Rand keeps his body and Lews Therin takes over Moridins. Thus enabling Lews Therin to battle the Dark One at Shayol Ghul because after all it does say its the "Dragons" blood that will be spilled, it doesn't say which one.

[KaptainKaos]

I'm not going to go too far into this one because I hope it is a unique ending that none of us have guessed so far. I especially hope my own theories don't prove to be true because I don't like them but I think Rand will die (I hope be revived somehow, but maybe not) ending the Last Battle because the books imply and simply state the Dragon Reborn's blood shed on the rocks at Shayol Ghul will end the Last Battle and Rand was told to live you must die. That is as far as I am going to go from my own perspective into it but I do have several questions for those who believe the Moridin/Rand switching bodies thing. Where does it say anywhere that anyone but possibly the Creator or the Dark One can switch the actual souls of two individuals? Robert Jordan has said there are many rules and constraints that haven't even came up in the books yet even when the Dark One himself is putting the soul of one of his followers who has died into another living body which is the main example so far we have of souls being able to go from one body to another. Also if it was known that Moridin was in Rand's body which it probably would be by those bonded to Rand why would Elayne, Min, and Avienda be on a boat with the body on a funeral bed?(Nicola's fortelling) Or if the bond is to Rand's soul then they would know he moved to Moridin's body and was alive for that matter and wasn't in his own body why would they be on a boat with Rand's body Moridin's soul seemingly dead. I'm wondering the response to these questions so I am just going to post before I ask anymore.

[KaptainKaos]

And I have to add that I like Demonspawn's idea a lot and I actually hope that happens just because it is a pretty cool idea but I can't imagine how the story could shift from battling with the One Power and weapons to being able to push each other's souls out of their bodies but who knows maybe something will happen.

[Luckers]

The problem with Demonspawns theory is that the indications are that if anyone is dying, it's Rand's body. So i suspect it will be Rand who lives on in Moridin's body.

 

As for the exact function of the soul swap. The link between Moridin and Rand would seem to be the tool through which this is achieved. It is growing increasingly stronger... to the point where they can sense a bit of what the other is thinking. Additionally i suspect that the nausia that comes with it comes from dual perceptions--percieving both what Rand and Moridin sees and feels at the same time, in an incomprehensible manner--because note that in KoD when Rand is finally able to see Moridin clearly he doesn't experience the nausia.

 

In any case we have seen many characters souls leave their bodies. Dreamwalker do it all the time, as we know from when Perrin went so deep into Tel'aran'rhiod that he displayed the signs of having lost his soul. Machin Shin is another power that can influence a soul, and i suspect, so was Mashadar... though i have no real evidence of that.

 

From the hedgehog and the dream ter'angreal we even know that even mere human channelers can intentionally influence another persons soul. Think too of the Horn of Valere, which by all looks is a human constract that taps into the Wheels ability to bind and hold souls.

 

My suspicion that in the course of their battle Moridin will be severed from the Dark One, and forced to draw on saidin. The second he does the link between them will intensify allowing each the access needed to the others thoughts, they will blur for a while, but then Rand will win as per Min's vision, and their souls will have swapped bodies.

[KaptainKaos]

Okay Luckers, I like the thought involved and it seems to be somewhat possible in the world to be done in someway since it has been shown that a lot of things can be done somehow in these books but what about my questions above. How does Nicola's foretelling tie into it and the vision of Rand's body with the three women who are bound to him around his body on a boat? Just look at the post before my last one...

[Rumor]

I respect the ideas and thoughts behind the body-switch theories, but somehow can't get away from the feeling that a body switch would just be cheesy (no offense)...it does seem probable that is what RJ is leading up to, but I can't bring myself to like it hehe.

 

Anyway, I'm sure someone else brought this up, but this topic has been so talked about, I can't really keep all of the posts straight, so I'm going to throw it out there: Is it possible that "to live, you must die" has an implied "again" after the word live...as in, he must die to save the world and if he wants to live again/be reborn someday, of course he has to save the world?