Game Balance?

[Alys Kinch]

Barm love!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I like a good, action-packes game. Roles should add to that, but... ever hear less is more? An all out roled game is cool, but a well played game is best.

[DPR]

 

And aren't I just the reformed whore. I was either the first, or close to it, that roled everybody in the game. Now I rue the day...and could die for a balanced game. meh

[Alys Kinch]

I was among  the first to say, hey, let's role everyone! i went into the civil war planning attempting to be that creative.

[DPR]

 

Yep. Back in the day, our problem was participation and keeping things interesting. Now the players are like Piranhna's - yikes. Participation ain't the issue anymore - now it's quality.

[DPR]

 

I <3 Alys.

[Barmacral]

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I was among  the first to say, hey, let's role everyone! i went into the civil war planning attempting to be that creative.

 

Civil War came a while after. I think I was the first to role everyone, with Nuthouse mafia. However, it was the third big roled game, after the first Suras and Double Blind. Pretty sure both of those had roleless innocents though.

[LilyElizabeth]

Well, that makes me feel better. It's nice to know y'all made the same mistakes I'm making, or at least some of them.  :D

 

[Kivam]

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In game events can majorly tip the balance in the direction you want it to. So, mid-game if you feel one side is at a significant disadvantage, its your job as the mod to make it even. And an in game event is a great way of doing that.

 

*bangs head against wall repeatedly*

 

NO.  No no no no no.

 

There should be no reason you should ever have to step in to adjust the rules midgame unless you completely and totally screwed up the balance beforehand.  And if you did . . . well, live and learn; don't screw with your players and make everything they did up to that point worthless.

 

That said, on balancing . . .

 

I typically start with a 25% scum to 75% town ratio.  If there is a second scum team, all sides get their ratio dropped relatively equally (20%/20%/60% is a 1/5 drop in numbers for each scum team and the town, and the town's massive drop off is offset by the likelihood of cross-kills and some good roles), cult leaders really throw off numbers.  Generally, I can't stand recruiting roles - they're just too powerful, both in and of themselves and in how they distort the game dynamics, so if I use one, there's almost always going to be some limit on the power (a set number of recruits, non-recruitable players, a % likelihood of the recruit failing).  In terms of Mafia roles, I tend to not give out many beyond "mafia goon" unless the town has some serious firepower.  The more likely you make it that the mafia can identify the town power roles (cop/doc/something special and new), the more unbalanced it becomes (against the town) and the more the town needs additional roles.

 

I also tend to use trap roles - roles that serve no purpose other than to confuse the player about game setup (a townie roleblocker when scum have no roles) or that the town is better off without (like the bodyguard agency owner in Double Blind).

 

Beyond that, I'll just put myself in the state of mind of a townie player or a scum player at endgame, seeing all the role info.  If I was scum, would I be pissed that the town was overpowered?  How about vice versa?

 

I'll also agree with Wes here - not everyone needs to have a role, and the more roles you give out, the harder the game is to balance.  If you've thought of 20 cool roles you want to use . . . save some for another game, unless you have a LOT of experience balancing teams.

[Alys Kinch]

Love, love to wes!

 

Barm, I don't know which was first, that was definately the idea. I remember trying to get others to go along with the idea though.

 

Wes, quantity of players vs quality of play?

[Jeran]

How would having back up roles affect balance (e.g. backups finder or healer in case the first one dies)

[Alys Kinch]

Depends, sharing investigations back up finder? having extra of a role means you have to alter the other side with extra power. by having a back up, you take away the mafia option of killing to shut someone up; only worse if sharing info.

[DPR]

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Love, love to wes!

 

Barm, I don't know which was first, that was definately the idea. I remember trying to get others to go along with the idea though.

 

Wes, quantity of players vs quality of play?

 

The higher the number of players, the more likely that the game will drift aimlessly for a few days before it picks up steam. Now, having siad that, I almost never limit the number of players in my games - but I always make sure that there is some reason to pay attention. So all of my "actions" and storylines, and flavor help push a game forward.

 

The key to quality playing, imo, is the players themselves. It deosn't matter how many people are in a game - Alys and Kivs will always play well. You just have to make sure that people don't get board.

[Kivam]

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How would having back up roles affect balance (e.g. backups finder or healer in case the first one dies)

 

A backup finder or backup doc makes it more likely that the role will survive in game for longer.  One thing you might consider for that role is making the backup power limited - i.e. the backup power kicks in only if the role dies before day X.  There's no set way to balance a backup role; just consider that you've increased the odds that the finder will survive past day ___ and adjust accordingly.

[DPR]

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How would having back up roles affect balance (e.g. backups finder or healer in case the first one dies)

 

A backup finder or backup doc makes it more likely that the role will survive in game for longer.  One thing you might consider for that role is making the backup power limited - i.e. the backup power kicks in only if the role dies before day X.  There's no set way to balance a backup role; just consider that you've increased the odds that the finder will survive past day ___ and adjust accordingly.

 

Yep. The backup roles are good for games where you are planning a high and fast deathcount - so a game mechanism becomes the balance instead of a role vs. role balance.

[Alys Kinch]

I love how you guys say the same thing I mean to say, only in a better way.

[DPR]

 

That's what I was going to say...

[Alys Kinch]

Liar! Cheater! Theif!

[DPR]

 

Scuuuuuuummmmm...

[Alys Kinch]

That's my sweet pirate you are talking about there.

 

 

PS spamming the thread!

[LilyElizabeth]

Keep spamming. Lily needs the laugh right now..... lol

[LilyElizabeth]

Bumping the good stuff up. At least I hope it's good stuff. It's good to me.

[dapianoplay3r]

bump