Perrin's Unseen Enemy

[mossman87]

Can't remember this at all so,

Did they feel the eyes when in there in the flesh at all?  Or was it only while channeling spirit?

 

My question is moot also if Perrin ever felt them.

[Animus Messor]

I think that the unseen eyes is what Perrin probably felt when he was drawing strength into himself when he went back to the WoD in TGS. Perrin also said that he felt something far...distant. After Hopper felt him try to force his mind more out, he told him that he should come back when he learns not to stick his nose into a bees nest.

 

And I agree now that this might be that BIG thing that we,ve missed.

[Lacanos]

I agree with Luckers on a few points: the Unseen Foe is neither Slayer nor the Whitecloaks. Futhermore, as it claims the answers are in Tel'Aran'Rhiod, that heavily implies a creature of the dream, either this "unseen entity" or the forsaken.

 

I think the Unseen Eyes are definately the most interesting idea though, and it'd be a shame not to see them developed. Possibly a link to trollocs or something (although there's a quote somewhere claiming they don't dream?), or maybe even a new type of shadoweye?

[farthammer]

I agree with Luckers on a few points: the Unseen Foe is neither Slayer nor the Whitecloaks. Futhermore, as it claims the answers are in Tel'Aran'Rhiod, that heavily implies a creature of the dream, either this "unseen entity" or the forsaken.

 

I think the Unseen Eyes are definately the most interesting idea though, and it'd be a shame not to see them developed. Possibly a link to trollocs or something (although there's a quote somewhere claiming they don't dream?), or maybe even a new type of shadoweye?

 

RAVENS?

[OptimusPrime]

If we're so sure it isnt Slayer, Id say we should be looking at Cyndane and Moghedien. Both are masters of T'A'R, and both are under Moridins control via the mind traps, Moridin having announced at a Forsaken meeting in KoD that Mat and Perrin are primary targets.

 

Im going to make the assumption that the Forsaken know of the prophecies on Mat and Perrin. Also, Im sure among them that they know that Wolfbrothers have abilities in T'A'R. Seeing as Perrin is now a priority, and this unseen enemy is supposedly not Slayer, would it make sense that Moridin is using Moghedien and/or Cyndane here?

[Owayn The Traveller]

Okay maybe the precepts being broke by Birgette has something to do with the unseen eyes. Who set the precepts? Why do they need to be adhered to? Who made the horn of valere? What powers it?

Okay maybe the unseen eyes have something to do with the hereos of the horn and since birgette broke the precepts whatever was holding them back from making themselves more felt is now gone. Maybe the unseen eyes made the horn, set the rules of the heroes and now they might come into it.

 

Okay and maybe not. :P

[Luckers]

Quote from: Luckers on Today at 03:32:36 AM

Quote

Studying the columns herself, Egwene shrugged uncomfortably. It did feel as if, they were being watched. No doubt it was just because they were the only people in the Stone. No one who had access to Tel'aran'rhiod could expect to find anyone to watch, here. [tSR;35, Sharp Lessons]

Quote

"...She had the sensation of being watched from the dimnesses between the columns..."

"...The emptiness of the vast chamber oppressed her, all those great polished columns and that sense of being watched from the dimness between..."

”... there was often a feel of unseen eyes in the World of Dreams…”

"...that sensation of being watched that was so common in Tel’aran ‘rhiod. It was all Nynaeve could do not to flee..."

“…Suddenly very much aware of feeling unseen eyes…”

“…She had almost grown accustomed to the feel of unseen eyes in this vast chamber…”

“…Even the feel of unseen eyes could not touch her through her anger this morning…”

“…often she had the feeling of eyes watching…”

"...calling [Egwene] did nothing except increase that uneasy feeling of being watched..."

"...she became aware of being watched by unseen eyes. That sensation was always present in Tel'aran'rhiod, and not even the Wise Ones knew why..."

"...The ever-present sensation of unseen eyes watching was not dreamlike..."

"...That no longer seemed any odder to her than the feel of unseen eyes watching..."

 

 

Is this the complete list of references to unseen eyes in T'a'r?

 

No. In the notes I made during my re-read a few months back there are listed two more incidences both in LoC which I cannot for the life of me find now.

 

Are any of the quotes on this list from Perrin's perspective?  They don't appear to be.  Perrin always refers to it as the Wolfdream, right?

 

Has Perrin ever commented on a feeling of unseen eyes in the Wolfdream?

 

If the answer is "No," then I think it probably is not the "Unseen Enemy."  If Perrin never felt the unseen eyes, how would it come in to play as antagonistic (an enemy) to him?

 

I don't really think that logic works. For instance neither Rand nor Min knew of Slayer, or had been linked to him in any way, yet he was hunting them in WH. That Perrin has never encountered this enemy before doesn't mean he won't come to--he has the necessary ability to enter TAR, and that's all that is needed for them to cross paths.

 

And we do not know for sure that Perrin had never felt them, just that he's never commented on the feeling--neither did Birgitte or the Wise Ones, until the girls asked them about it. He could simply have judged it normal and not bothered since then.

 

Did they feel the eyes when in there in the flesh at all?  Or was it only while channeling spirit?

 

Channeling spirit had nothing to do with it. Women using the ring ter'angreal and normal dreamers have felt the eyes, and they were not channeling anything. But no, no one in the flesh has spoken of it, although Egwene says: "She was in Tel'aran'rhiod in the flesh. It felt no different than when she came in a dream." which may imply she felt the Eyes too.

[Paerish Swar]

Are any of the quotes on this list from Perrin's perspective?  They don't appear to be.  Perrin always refers to it as the Wolfdream, right?

 

Has Perrin ever commented on a feeling of unseen eyes in the Wolfdream?

 

If the answer is "No," then I think it probably is not the "Unseen Enemy."  If Perrin never felt the unseen eyes, how would it come in to play as antagonistic (an enemy) to him?

 

I don't really think that logic works. For instance neither Rand nor Min knew of Slayer, or had been linked to him in any way, yet he was hunting them in WH. That Perrin has never encountered this enemy before doesn't mean he won't come to--he has the necessary ability to enter TAR, and that's all that is needed for them to cross paths.

 

And we do not know for sure that Perrin had never felt them, just that he's never commented on the feeling--neither did Birgitte or the Wise Ones, until the girls asked them about it. He could simply have judged it normal and not bothered since then.

 

Following that line of reasoning, Perrin's "unseen foe" could be anyone who wishes him harm/dead.  At this point that could be pretty much anyone, especially since Moridin has officially put out the kill order on Perrin.  Any darkfriend in all of Randland could qualify as Perrin's unseen foe.

 

I think it could be possible that the unseen eyes in T'a'r and Perrin's unseen foe in ToM are linked somehow.  But, how overly . . . literal . . . would it be for Perrin's "unseen" foe to have something to do with the "unseen" eyes in T'a'r, which Perrin himself has not once commented on in the series (unseen and unnoticed)?  It would be a little odd.

 

But it is that very oddity that makes me wonder if Perrin's lack of acknowledgment of the unseen eyes plays in to your BUT theory.  Why does the wolfbrother not mention the unseen eyes when everyone else who regularly enters T'a'r has?  Does he not feel them?  Might that be a hint as to what the unseen eyes are?

 

Wait a second!  Are the only people who comment on the unseen eyes women?  Maybe a few of the male Heroes of the Horn are peeping toms?  :D

 

Back to the topic of Perrin's unseen enemy.  To reference one of your other theories - Masuri & Annoura = Darkfriends - I would dare to venture that one of them is more likely to be (or have something to do with) the unseen foe than it is likely to have something to do with the unseen eyes.

[csarmi]

The Unseen Eyes can be the wolves (and Perrin), the heroes or anyone who reads the pattern and/or T'a'r.

 

Or something along these lines.

 

For example, when Perrin gets those windows open in the sky for him.

 

Also, the wolves have to be somewhere. Not to mention the heroes.

 

Slayer: how can he hunt wolves in T'a'r?

 

BTW: Slayer might just be the enemy from the past and the book info is a bit misleading (as for the Unseen). They often are.

[csarmi]

 

Thank you for spoling an entire book series for me which I haven't read so far, but might have intended to. Have you no sense?

[Terez]

LOL, why are you blaming me when Luckers brought it up?  In any case, I didn't spoil the whole series for you...not even close.  ;)

[Luckers]

I brought it up very carefully with no specific spoilers.

[a5m]

Thank you for spoling an entire book series for me which I haven't read so far, but might have intended to. Have you no sense?

 

Why are you reading a forum instead of reading the books? Did you expect to find no discussion of what happens in the books in a forum dedicated to the series?

[Terez]

He was talking about Mistborn.

[NoGuessing]

I've always been suspicious about Selande for some reason.

[Lacanos]

I think the use of the words "unseen enemy" implies nothing to do with any of the characters in perrin's camp.

My most likely guesses are:

Whomever was manipulating Masema

Luckers' theory on the eyes

Perhaps Moghedien.

 

The description of an "unseen enemy" seems to mean someone behind the scenes, manipulating things to go badly for him. Any other ideas?

[Duskfire]

Yeah I like the idea of it being whoever was manipulating Masema. They probably won't be particularly happy at his death, not to mention there is that recent kill order for Perrin.

[Lacanos]

Yeah I like the idea of it being whoever was manipulating Masema. They probably won't be particularly happy at his death, not to mention there is that recent kill order for Perrin.

I'd forgotten I'd theorised this, but if the theory Moghedien was involved with manipulating Masema (perhaps through Aes Sedai as Luckers has theorised), then the "answer being in TAR" doesn't seem unreasonable, and we know she's a skilled manipulator

[Crael123]

it is probably the mouse perrin gave a cookie too.

[SvetSedi]

Perrin Aybara is now hunted by specters from his past: Whitecloaks, a slayer of wolves, and the responsibilities of leadership. All the while, an unseen foe is slowly pulling a noose tight around his neck. To prevail, he must seek answers in Tel’aran’rhiod and find a way--at long last--to master the wolf within him or lose himself to it forever.

 

Sorry Luckers but the quote above clearly points to "unseen foe" not "unseen eyes"

 

 

Perrin has never mentioned the "Unseen eyes" in all the books as far as I can remember.    Of course I am not the virtual WoT encyclopedia that you are, but still it just does not seem right for this to be something out of the blue in reference to Perrin's PoVs.  It should be something that - typical RJ - is hinted at over the course of the twelve books.

 

 

So we need to concentrate on all Perrin's PoVs all the way back to the second or third book.

 

What is the common element to Perrin's PoV in all those books?

 

The only thing that I can think of are.......

[SvetSedi]

...........It is obviously refering to

 

Fleas!

 

Perrin is always scratching his beard and complaining about Fleas!!!  

 

The Unsean Foe!   :D :D :D :o ;D ;D

 

 

 

Sorry - I just could not resist!!!    Not that I even tried ;)

[Lironah]

Yeah I like the idea of it being whoever was manipulating Masema. They probably won't be particularly happy at his death, not to mention there is that recent kill order for Perrin.

 

Demandred.  That's my call.  Demandred is out to get Perrin and was masquerading as Rand for Masema.

[Luckers]

In my opinion its more likely Moghedian who is the Fake Rand.

[Dida]

In my opinion its more likely Moghedian who is the Fake Rand.

 

  I second with your opinion, about who is behind Masema's Compulsion & Dreams.  Moghedien. :)

 

 

  It also fits with how Ghealdin as a nation fell apart earlier too. 

[Tommatt]

I just hope Perrin is back to being great in this book.  I'm rereading again, and in book 4, and Perrin is just awesome!  I dread coming to the later books where you just want to skip his parts.