Healing the dead...

[Caedn of the Taardad]

A somewhat random thought came up while I was talking with a friend who's going through the books for the first time.  If someone where to die, could you still heal his/her wounds, maybe make a presentable corpse for the funeral?  I'm leaning towards not, but I'm not even sure if anyone's tried in the books... 

 

Your thoughts, feelings?

[Warden]

With the "new healing" . . . probably yes, with the old - no.

[Kadere]

The process of healing takes energy from both the person doing the healing and the person being healed. If the person is dead they have energy to give to the healing process. So I'm going with no.

[dokfeelg00d]

So if the healee has to provide some energy... where does that leave us with the prophecy that Nynaeve is going to heal death?

[BoostedBob]

Just curious where in the book's does it say Nyn will heal death? I know in the AoL, Aes Sedai where able to heal people on the brink but once gone nothing could be done about it.

 

I know Nyn healed stilling something they couldnt do in AoL, but stilling and death are very two diffrent thing's. Not jumping your butt just curious.

[dokfeelg00d]

I could have sworn it had something to do with Min's viewings. I might be wrong but I thought it involved her.

[BoostedBob]

Well I am doing a Re-Read right now and am on TDR, So I will keep a eye out for it.

 

As for the topic. If I rember right didnt Rand try and heal the little girl who was killed by the trolloc, and only succeded in making her heart pump out fresh blood but nothing more? I do not think she was healed though. Then again it doesnt say anywhere in the book's that Rand does know any healing weaves so I guess my point is moot.

[Manel Rochaid]

Well I am doing a Re-Read right now and am on TDR, So I will keep a eye out for it.

 

As for the topic. If I rember right didnt Rand try and heal the little girl who was killed by the trolloc, and only succeded in making her heart pump out fresh blood but nothing more? I do not think she was healed though. Then again it doesnt say anywhere in the book's that Rand does know any healing weaves so I guess my point is moot.

 

I agree, I can't remember seeing a part with a vision about healing death. Just Rand and Nyneave both wishing they could, especially Nyneave.

 

I do remember reading Rand thinking that he was unable to heal more than bruises, so that probably rules him out.

[BoostedBob]

Well I am doing a Re-Read right now and am on TDR, So I will keep a eye out for it.

 

As for the topic. If I rember right didnt Rand try and heal the little girl who was killed by the trolloc, and only succeded in making her heart pump out fresh blood but nothing more? I do not think she was healed though. Then again it doesnt say anywhere in the book's that Rand does know any healing weaves so I guess my point is moot.

 

I agree, I can't remember seeing a part with a vision about healing death. Just Rand and Nyneave both wishing they could, especially Nyneave.

 

I do remember reading Rand thinking that he was unable to heal more than bruises, so that probably rules him out.

 

Now that you mention it, he did say that or at least something close to it.

 

I missed some of the OP question. Other then Rand trying to heal the little girl, I do not remeber any of the charecters trying to heal anyone who had died. I think they just did not see any need to heal someone who did not need it.

[Malruhn]

Arbitrarily, I will say that it IS possible - much like using the OP to fix a broken vase... you just use the threads to knit the flesh back together...

 

HOWEVER...

 

I am going to say that it WOULDN'T be done.  From everything I've read, the folks in Randland don't have the same compunctions as we do - the same "ewwww" factor about death.  Yes, it's sad and all, but if someone got hacked in the face with an axe, then they got hacked in the face.  Perhaps wash the face and add a veil or lace, but there is really no NEED to fix it.  From what I've read between the lines, the corpse is just an empty vessel now that the person's died... let it have the axe-wound in the face... that's how they died.

[Caedn of the Taardad]

Well I am doing a Re-Read right now and am on TDR, So I will keep a eye out for it.

 

As for the topic. If I rember right didnt Rand try and heal the little girl who was killed by the trolloc, and only succeded in making her heart pump out fresh blood but nothing more? I do not think she was healed though. Then again it doesnt say anywhere in the book's that Rand does know any healing weaves so I guess my point is moot.

 

I agree, I can't remember seeing a part with a vision about healing death. Just Rand and Nyneave both wishing they could, especially Nyneave.

 

I do remember reading Rand thinking that he was unable to heal more than bruises, so that probably rules him out.

 

Now that you mention it, he did say that or at least something close to it.

 

I missed some of the OP question. Other then Rand trying to heal the little girl, I do not remeber any of the charecters trying to heal anyone who had died. I think they just did not see any need to heal someone who did not need it.

 

That seen with the girl (or more accuratley, his later recall of it) was what brought the question up, and if memory serves (and I've been through these books enough times that it should...)  Rand says something along the lines of “She has to live! Heal her, Moiraine. I don’t know how. Heal her!”.  Insofar as anyone else trying it, I can't recall anything.  The clossest it's come is durring the battle with the Seanchan near Ebou Dar where one of the nobles with Rand (Arcome) stated as: '"Aracome’s gone," he said. "Flinn tried Healing him, but I don’t think Aracome wanted to live like that. There’s near fifty dead so far, and some of the rest might not survive."'  That means he died in healing, likely through the severity of his wounds, and the lack of will to live.  Beyond that, there is only the delving revealing death, followed by the healer moving on to another casualty. 

 

I could see it being possible, depending on how you view the "energy" required for the healing.  There certainly remains trace amounts of some of what you could call energy in the body for a while after death, but it may not be the type used in healing, or it could be like trying to touch yourself with the healing weave... 

[rubbernilly]

I don't think it was a prophecy about Nynaeve that you are remembering. I think it was just a comment by Min made in conversation after Nynaeve has been particularly bristly...

 

"Oh, don't mind her. She [Nynaeve] won't be happy until she's healed someone three days dead."

 

Not saying that she won't do this very thing (some people have speculated on using tel'aran'rhiod, possibly to heal a dead Rand), but I don't think that there is the prophetic "oomph" there that there might be with something she clearly defines as a vision in the narrative.

[Trumpeter]

So if the healee has to provide some energy... where does that leave us with the prophecy that Nynaeve is going to heal death?

 

For Aes Sedai be stilled or burned out results in the "death" of that Aes Sedai from being Aes Sedai. So while it's a stretch, an AS might find that healing stilling is comparable to healing death.

[MikeRiley]

Nynaeve knows an alternate way to Heal that doesn't seem to use the other person's energy, but it caused her a lot of pain when she did it and as far as I know we only see her do it once. It was when she didn't have her herbs with her and had to use a different healing method. I'm a bit confused as to how she knew it, but it worked. The scene is in The Dragon Reborn, where the fades are buying Aes Sedai from the bandits. Elayne is near death and unconscious in their cell.

[BoostedBob]

Nynaeve knows an alternate way to Heal that doesn't seem to use the other person's energy, but it caused her a lot of pain when she did it and as far as I know we only see her do it once. It was when she didn't have her herbs with her and had to use a different healing method. I'm a bit confused as to how she knew it, but it worked. The scene is in The Dragon Reborn, where the fades are buying Aes Sedai from the bandits. Elayne is near death and unconscious in their cell.

 

Your right on her doing a different weave on Elayne when her head was hurt. However when Nyn and the girls go to Salidar and get done healing Siuan. The other yellows ask her why she used fire in her weave, and she said she has always used fire in her weaves.

 

If i remember right, I think most if not all of the yellow's only used spirit water and air(the last one could be wrong I am going off of memory here) To heal a person, thus requiring having to have the person being healed engery, as well as the healer. They also saw how fire could do a few other things as well, but cant seem to find the page number where it was referenced after seeing Nyn using fire in her weave.  

 

Oh, before anyone asks I know we only see it being mentioned she used fire after she showed how to cure stilling, but she said she uses it all the time in healing.

[Caedn of the Taardad]

For what it's worth, here's your quote. Don't have time to put anything else, but the Light bless whoever put these PDF's wherever I found them...

 

'"What made you think of using Fire?" Dagdara asked in a strangled voice that sounded entirely too high

for such a big woman. "And Earth? You used Earth. Healing is Spirit, Water and Air." That opened the

floodgate, questions from every throat, but they were all the same question really, just phrased differently.

"I don't know why," Nynaeve replied when she found an opening. "It just seemed right. I've almost

always used everything." Which produced a round of admonitions. Healing was Spirit, Water and Air. It was

dangerous to experiment with Healing; a mistake could kill not only you but your patient. She said nothing in

reply, but the warnings died off quickly in rueful glances and smoothed skirts; she had not killed anyone, and

she had Healed what they said could not be Healed.'

[dokfeelg00d]

I am still thinking that Rand will die and fight the DO in his domain which weakens the DO for Logain to finish the job.  This being said, Do we let big hero die at TG or do we let Nynaeve bring him back to life so we can all live happily ever after in the 4th age?

[Mr. Dragon]

The problem is that energy just doesn't float around. Unless the entire biology of humans is different in the wheel of time, energy in this case taken from the patient would probably refer to fat reserves. Unless said person is holding the Power and some of the energy comes from that. It is also a problem that we don't now how healing would theoretically work,ie what happens between the energy input and the healing. Does it just help the body along or does it take a much heavyer hand?

I would side with helping the body along as the most probable theory, otherwise the weaving could get incredible fine and complicated. I would there for guess that using either method would fail on a person who has been dead a significant time. If it only been a few minuites then maybe.

[Jemlin]

I am thinking something similar to how Birgitte was pulled out of the dream realm into reality.  A combo of that and healing, that is much less painful and risky for the patient.

[BoostedBob]

For what it's worth, here's your quote. Don't have time to put anything else, but the Light bless whoever put these PDF's wherever I found them...

 

'"What made you think of using Fire?" Dagdara asked in a strangled voice that sounded entirely too high

for such a big woman. "And Earth? You used Earth. Healing is Spirit, Water and Air." That opened the

floodgate, questions from every throat, but they were all the same question really, just phrased differently.

"I don't know why," Nynaeve replied when she found an opening. "It just seemed right. I've almost

always used everything." Which produced a round of admonitions. Healing was Spirit, Water and Air. It was

dangerous to experiment with Healing; a mistake could kill not only you but your patient. She said nothing in

reply, but the warnings died off quickly in rueful glances and smoothed skirts; she had not killed anyone, and

she had Healed what they said could not be Healed.'

 

Woops completely forgot about Earth.

 

As for the energy input im thinking along the lines you are..If they hadnt been using the "Fat Cells" or some other form of energy, I do not think the the person who was receiving the healing would come out hungry or tired.

 

[Durinax]

I noticed one thing on my current reread, a quote from halwer norry, caemlyns head clerk "I've met the man and I wouldn't believe him dead unless I sat for three days with the corpse" (not exact but close enoguh for my purposes) and he is speaking about rand. I just hope that if rand does get resurrected it isnt because of the power of love like a certain event

[Mr. Dragon]

I just hope that if rand does get resurrected it isnt because of the power of love like a certain event

 

Indeed.

[ravenfier]

??? what event? what series, im lost  ???

[Durinax]

??? what event? what series, im lost  ???

if youve read the event that we are talking about you would know, so keep reading on until you come across it

[Hadilmir]

Hey, if they can pull it off twice in the Matrix, why not in WoT?