Mod training

[aemonkristen]

Here's what I'm thinking. We're getting quite a few new players and I'd like to keep them interested in the game and having a good time. Unfortunately, new players often stumble and make mistakes that frustrate the more experienced players to greater or lesser degrees. Here is what I propose: I would like to mad a mafia in which a mod is in charge of three "disciples", for lack of a better word. These three players will be yours to teach and guide. You will show them the ins and outs of mafia. You can teach them what they should be looking for and what they should avoid saying. Teach them tricks, tactics, gambits and how to lie through your teeth. The choosing of your disciples would be completely random, so you could end up with disciples both town and mafia. The disciples will not know who the other two are and they will be under orders not to discuss with anyone the things they learn from you (or even who you are) until after the game. Please give me your thoughts and opinions on this. I really do want to encourage the next generation of mafia players to play their best.

[LilyElizabeth]

Interesting idea, but I'd say no. Many of us have mentees of a sort. I learned most of what I know from Pete, and I pick DPR's brain when I get the chance.

 

I think making dumb mistakes and paying for them, or better yet, having to wiggle out from under them, is the best teacher. I wouldn't want to deprive anyone of those nervewracking enjoyable experiences.  ;D

 

[aemonkristen]

Good point, Lily. I actually last sleep over this last night (the true sign of an addict), and I came to the conclusion that it might be better to have secret mentors. Someone that just PMs the mod of a game and says "I'd like to mentor player X". If the mod agrees to this, a QT board can be set up for mentor and mentee. The reason for the QT board is twofold: 1) the mod has to know what they are talking about. Mod is God. 2) the whole purpose of this is not for an experienced player to play by proxy, but to instruct another player on tells, gambits and such. The QT board can them be linked to a thread of other in-game conversations between mentors and mentees for the education of all.

 

I agree that part of the fun of playing mafia is learning from your mistakes and sometimes making mistakes that are so wrong everyone wants to lynch you for real. We've all made these mistakes and we've come through them and are better for it. But, the atmosphere in mafia these days is getting very tense and people seem to be less polite than before. This makes me worry that some people might be scared away from mafia before they truly get a chance to see what fun it can be. And there may be others who are watching the games and thinking about joining one in the future who get turned off by seeing the viscious attacks on someone just learning. These are the things I hope to avoid

 

To use an analogy, when you learned to drive a car, did you just grab the keys, jump in the car and go? Learning a little more everytime you crashed? Probably not. You had someone in the car with you. A brother, father, mother, friend. They were there to give you advice and make sure you didn't get yourself killed.

 

I'd like to implement this secret mentor system, if there are no objections. The mentor does not need to be a mod. It can be anyone who has experience in the game or feels that they have something they can teach another person. The objective is the edification of all and making mafia a fun experience instead of a torture for the newbies.

 

 

Sorry about the wall of text. I guess I got a bit carried away.

[DPR]

Aemon, that's the logical thought to have when you realize what's happening, but let me throw this out there:

 

Teaching the players is the job of the mod.

 

As a mod, you are saying "Hey, I know what I'm doing, and not only have I put together a great game, but I'm going to to take the newer players under my wing and show them the ropes. So in the D&D game, Lily would have been well within her rights as mod to tell Krak that it is traditional for the healer to cover a revealed finder.  She wouldn't make the decision for Krak - and Krak very well may have gone with instinct just the same - but at least the knowledge would be out there.

 

We also used to have min-discussions about these things in the games, on the threads. In one of my early games, I was all about "instinct" and how I could pick out mafia players -and promptly got lynched for it - but not without a lot of commentary from experienced players about how instict alone is not enough. You have to have a plan, and figure out what other people's plans are.

 

Look at the same D&D game - I had David and Krak, and maybe others, convinced I was innocent. I think it must have driven Pete crazy, heh, because that's just how I play when I am mafia. If Ihad been mafia, I would have stoked David to be even more ambitious and let him wipe out the board (which would have been really lovely...ahhh, missed opportunties...) Krak went with a gut hunch instead of the solid play, and imagine if I had been mafia then? I would have crowed all over the QT thread. So you always have to follow the rules if you want to win. The truth is, your instincts are wrog about half the time. I don't care who you are, or what you think you know - just tell yourself that there is a 50/50 chance you are wrong - and ask yourself what the right play is. If you don't know, you ask the mod (Or PM a player that is not in the game. BTW, people PM me all the time, or Kivam, or Nae to ask questions, so feel free.)

 

So the real trick, IMO, is making sure that the mods are up to snuff. We have a group of really creative, really ambitious mods out there, and as soon as we get this balance thing worked out, we're going to see some legendary games. My mouth started to water just thinking about it. heh

[LilyElizabeth]

I either dropped the ball or just plain didn't know. I thought Krak was an experienced player. I knew Ed was new at finder, but Krak either slipped under my radar, or something else happened. See, Wes, you're training me as mod now.....lol. I'll keep those thoughts in mind.

 

[DPR]

 

Heh - as much as we would all like to be psychic, we can't see everything. Happens all the time. Thats why it's a good thing its just a game! ;D

 

To me, the key is to pass the information along - you learn from me, I learn from you, and the games get better and better for everybody.

[aemonkristen]

Thanks to both of you. I appreciate the insights you've given me. Now I'll go back to playing. Need more games. Hehehehe

[LilyElizabeth]

Yeah, I hear that. I need more to start. I have a feeling I'll be dying soon in one of mine, and be down to just one....

 

[DPR]

 

Honestly, one game at a time is enough. Occasionally I'll play two, but I have no idea how folks are playing four and five at the same time. To me, that just turns into kind of a demolition derby where players just show up at random and try to trigger events or cool roles - but they're not playing the way other people are playing.

 

And, I'm not criticisizing, mind you. I just find it very difficult and nearly pointless to put alot of thought into a game where half of the players are not even reading the posts, but only dropping by and voting to stave off a modkill.  I guess it's the old quantity vs. quality argument.

[Alys Kinch]

I don't know how much help one should give to others without them asking, but i do know, a nudge here or there is hardly taken amiss. I remember the days when we would say things to help players in game or to help obscure an action if a finder or something was too blunt, but apparently this irritates some of the new players. Lav bawled me out for it, not understanding the intent. A lot of my play style is based on this helpful aspect.

 

Another thing we used to help new players was to talk about the games afterward, what dead players would have acted on, why players did what they did, ambitions, etc. This was a level of insight from the players actually invested in the games.

 

Lastly, talk to your mods. Even after you die, talk about the game is a no no, but the mod is available. In game, you can do so as well, and possibley get teased or insight or more info about that role you are not sure what to do with.

[WWWwombat]

I'm a big fan of going with your instincts.  Gut feelings tend to be the culmination of unconscious thought processes so they aren't completely arbitrary.  I find that when I ignore my gut, I tend to regret it.

 

That being said, you need other tools such as logic and strategy.

 

I love talking about the games once they are over.  It is really cool to find out what everyone else was doing and I like to be able to explain my brilliant (or reckless) strategies.

[Barmacral]

I remember in the first game I modded, Wes had a night kill every night, and could not be night killed. The only way he could die was by being lynched. As a result, he was the last person lynched in the game, giving the mafia a win.

 

I also recall the first game he won - his first game as scum.

[Jeran]

Funny, I never once thought of asking the Mod for help with a role other than clarification of the rules.  Other than my first game which was pretty wild it took my a long time to have an interesting town power role.  Of course there was a time last summer where I was mafia like 5 times in a row and there's lots of help on a mafia team.

 

I'm glad you brought up the post game discussion Alys.  I enjoy that part of the game, but it seems to me that there has been less thorough discussions lately.  I'll have to try to remember to contribute from now on.

[Alys Kinch]

The only thing is mods must be careful about how much info they give to a player. They can't tell you who you should view, but they can do as DPR suggested and state that it is a standard play for finders to confirm a claimed role. They can't tell the vig that they made a mistake on their NK, but they can suggest to vigs to withold their hits until they have enough info to make an informed decision.

 

Try asking can I do this rather than saying what should I do. With any new role, it is always best to feel out what the mod wants you to do with it. Like when I had DPR's socalite role. What do you do with that?? I asked questions and learned where I did not want to take it and where I could. -> Would not use a major part of the role to save my neck over the healer's.

 

And Jeran, it's my favorite part. I have been known to make notes on games after I die...  I want to take a highlighter to posts sometimes when I am sitting out. :D Like right now in Kivy's, I am probably annoying him with stuff I see as it goes down that I can't comment on. :D <3 you, Kivs... Err, and tell me to stop at any time. :D

[Naeann]

I think DPR mentioned it.. certainly anyone can come to me with questions and I'll try my best to help.  Verbal credits me with teaching him what he knows and that's a nice stroke to my ego. :)  Aust has also come to me a few times with questions and stuff and several others have both here and on myndjack.  Any of the older players will also help you by looking over your roles and ideas for a game to help you make sure it's balanced.  << On that I'm still VERY new... I'll look it over but I really don't know what looks balanced and what doesn't.  I asked Barm and DPR on my games.