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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Time limits and modkills


aemonkristen

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Posted

As most of you already know, when Ed's game finishes in SG, I'll be starting mine. Something I have noticed and absolutely despised as a player are the inactive, slow to send in night action, make the game drag players. Here is my proposal for my game: Day will be 48 hours, night will be 24 hours. No hammer unless you make it hammer +1. That's definitive and anyone caught without a vote will be safe. If the voting goes to deadline, on day 1, 1 all non-voters will be modkilled. After that, 1 non-voter will be modkilled per day. What I'm aiming at is streamling the game so that we get a fast-paced, fun-for-everyone, holy-shit-deadline-is-in-two-hours game. I would really appreciate your thoughts and ideas on this as you are the ones who will ultimately make the decision. I won't run the game like this if too many people will feel the pressure and won't enjoy the experience. Or maybe we could run it one time and see how it goes. Thoughts, ideas, suggestions?

Posted

The set up is a standard game, but I do want it to be as fast as a mini is supposed to be. I played in a mini a while back and it dragged on and on because of inactive players. Would a time limit and modkill setup like this work in a standard game or do you think it's too much?

Posted

That would be good, Aemon, but some days (especially coming up with my son's competition) I just can't get to the computer. Granted, I do cast early votes in those situations, but then I look scummy because I didn't unvote on a finder or healer claim. Then again, I was in a flash mafia game where I didn't get to cast a single vote because it was done in 24 hours. Go figure.

 

I guess it is up to the mod. As you can see, I'm not afraid of modkilling, but I really don't like it.

Posted

Take advantage? You mean by claiming LoA or computer problems, family problems, etc.? That's why I want to talk to everyone now. If I run the game like this, there are no exceptions. If you know you are going to take an LoA, don't join the game. If you are going somewhere and don't think you'll be back in time to vote, make your vote before you leave. I don't want to have a stagnating game where everyone is just waiting around for someone who only comes around every once in awhile. As far as I'm concerned, night really should last long. Unless you have a huge game with  a ton of night actions (like Lily's Disney) all the night actions should be in just about the same time the death scene is posted. You've all been mafia before. You know before night falls exactly who you want to target. The same with the healer and the finder. There's no reason for night to last three days and then have the mod REMIND people to turn in their night actions. Those are the people I want to eliminate from the game. A way to compensate for a massive kill off on day 1 (if it comes to that) would be replacement of the people in that 24 hour night period with people on the back up list. If there aren't enough people, perhaps reassigning (eith restrictions) the roles of the unlamented dead. How does that sound?

Posted

Actually, I usually don't decide on a night action until the day is done. Then, depending on my ability, I reread and discover what the best course of action for me would be.

Posted

I usually do the same thing, Lia.

 

To be honest, Aemon, there's no way I could play a game like that. For a number of reasons, but mostly, because I hate the killing of all nonvoters. I played in a game like that once and it really ended up backfiring; it didn't encourage activity. All that happened is that inactive players would get on and throw out a random vote. I personally use not voting as a strategy sometimes, too, so I really feel that rules like that limit players. You're the mod, so it's up to you, of course, but that's my opinion.

Posted

I think that if you want to modkill all the non-voters day 1, you might consider a longer day 1 or random.org will probably play the first couple days of the game for you.  Personally I find that with most people's posting speed, 48 hour days might make you hit day 3 before people have much to go on with their voting unless you have a lucky/smart finder.  An extra day on day one would help with that, especially if people are going to be freaked out about needing to vote.

 

I wholeheartedly approve of a 24 hour night phase.  I considered running a 36 hour night phase in mine with the stipulation that anyone with a night action who doesn't PM me either a target or a "no action" PM would either a) lose their power or b) be modkilled.  I'm leaning towards option a with the power being awarded to another player, but might still go with a 24 rather than 36 hour phase.

 

You might find as your game plays out that you have a desire/need to change the hammer +1 rule.  For example, if the town are incredibly unlucky (through modkills or bad lynches) and you hit a point where there are 4 town and 3 mafia, hammer +1 is unlikely to happen and might just end up delaying the game.  I can see why you chose that method though.

  • Club Leader
Posted

I would advise against the modkilling multiple players myself. I've seen it done, and it wasn't beneficial. Those killed were mostly town, if not all, and let's just say it was one of the easiest mafia wins I've ever had. Personally, I'd love a fast-paced game, but day one, at least, has to be long enough to give the players a feel for each other. Anything less than four RL days and you're going to have a lot of randomocity in your game. Encourage players to post a lot and those who can't or need more time to decide things probably aren't suited for this type of game. Be up front as to what it will be and those players can pass on that particular game. There are other, slower games, especially these days. That's my two cents, anyway.

 

Posted

Here's the deal - the more you alter the game past the true standard setup, the more unknown consequence you leave yourself open to.

 

A standard game looks like this: 12 players - 1 Cop, 1 Doc, 3 Mafia, 7 Townies. 72 hour days/48 hour nights.

 

No special powers, no crazy time limits, just a plain vanilla game.

 

When you alter it, you risk making it less fun for people to play, so you get lower participation and turn people off to the whole thing.

 

I would say that your real problem is the 6 or 7 other games going on and the lack of attention that yours will receive.

 

I'm putting together a few thoughts on how I think the current situation can improve and be more fun. I'll post them later tonight or tomorrow.

Posted

Thank you all for your advice. To recap: Kill all non-voters day 1= bad, Longer day 1= good. Alanna and Lia, would you be opposed to the 24 night? Would that cramp your play style too much? Put too much pressure on you to act beforecompletely thinking through your options? DPR, I thought of that as well. We may need to suggest a DM wide cap on active mafia games to avoid a repeat of what's happening now. I know a lot of people have just become swamped with too many games and can't stay active in all of them. My game will not start until Lily, Kivam and Ed all finish theirs. It has the standard set up you helped me out with, I just want to make it a faster-paced, action-packed story. With a 48 hour day (after a 4 day day 1), do you (by you I mean anyone reading this post) think there will be enough posting/information for the townies to make the right decisions? Obviously, it all depends on the posts, but I'm trying to figure out how to encourage activity, speed up the game and keep it all balanced (as Wes said) without having it blowup in my face.

Posted

I don't like the idea of killing non-voters. If you feel you need to kill people for inactivity do it for not posting game related posts. Have a minimum that every player has to post at least twice per phase about something relevant to the game. That is up to a lot of interpretation, however I think the best thing is just an active mod.

 

An active moderator poking people s/he feels aren't contributing and then making the decision to kill or replace them is probably the better option.

 

24 hour nights wouldn't be bad in a predictable game. However a game like Kivam's where a day can range from hours to days would make it more difficult for people who just couldn't make it to the computer that day.

 

I'm personally not in any games right now. I am still actively watching all the games that I was involved in, but I have a tendency to get myself killed.

 

My recommendation Aemon is just to be active yourself. Games open to everyone will get a wide spectrum of personalities, experience, and play styles. Some people are quiet out of fear, others strategy, and yet others because they don't want to 'spam' and don't have anything the feel 'contributes' to the game. So really there isn't a neat solution otherwise it would already have been done.

 

You could screen the people or limit who you allow to join. You've been in a fair number of games and would be able to tell who would be active and who wouldn't. However this has it's own repercussions.

 

I've thought about games where you would have to play at least X many before you could play in an 'advance' game. Lets say someone has to play 10 games at DM before they are allowed to play one of the 'expert' mafia games on this board. Now I can't say that 'experience' makes people post more, I've seen my fair share of lurkers among older players, however I think it might be a step in the right direction.

Posted

I don't think you can make a cap on Mafia games on DM. :P People need to be responsible for themselves and how many games they sign up for. You can't be their Daddy leading their hand. :P

 

24 hours would be fine for me. Requiring people to do it within a couple minutes of the death scene is just not going to work. What if someone has to work and can't be there at your set time?

 

You can definitely screen players but I think that would piss off anyone who you won't let into your game. If you're going to do that you should run it where others can't see ;)

Posted

I agree, I'm not sure how capping all the games at DM would work. I do get kind of upset that some people mod several games at once, one right after another, huge games on top of that, with so many players. They don't give other people a chance to mod and just encourage having too many games going on at once. Not sure how that could be controlled, though. Really, out of courtesy, I think people should at least only mod one game at a time. I really also think you should space out games you mod, but like I said, I don't think that could be controlled/enforced.

 

Ultimately, though, when it comes to players, Lia is right, people themselves should be cognizant of how many games they can play at once and still be active. I can definitely think of a few people who I feel play too many games and, as a result, aren't very active, but that's their issue. I myself am trying to only stay in about 2 games at once right now. Honestly, it's more fun that way, because you can pay more attention to the few games you're in.

 

Aemon, the 24-hour night wouldn't bother me. I do take more time thinking things through, but 24 hours would be enough for me. And btw, thanks for letting poeple know what your rules would be before the games starts; I really think everyone should do that. I signed up for a game recently and didn't find out til it started how active I would have to be, and it was more active than I could be.

 

With screening players, instead of actually not letting certain people sign up for a game, I would sugest simply...er, making sure those inactive people don't get great roles. Personally, I think that's totally fair. They should participate more if they want to be finder or godfather or whatever. And it's better than actually telling people they're not allowed to play.

Posted

I learned that 3 games is too many for me.  With school/work/family etcetera I need to be more choosy in where I spend my time.  Plus keeping track of who is who in what game  - aaaargh!

 

As Lia pointed out, that is a personal responsibility.  No one made me sign up for all of them *swats devil on shoulder*

 

For the time limits, I think the part the drags the most for me is Day 1.  Is there any reason that Day 1 tends to be 4 real time days?  I know in the first day , we do not have much info, but letting it go on for an extended period doesn't really increase what the group knows.

Posted

I used to think that about Day 1, but all that happens by making Day 1 shorter is that Day 2 and even 3 will drag on as boringly as Day 1. I also don't really enjoy Day 1, but having it be long usually ensures that enough has happened to make the following days more interesting.

Posted

Usually I think that is enough time from Day 2 onwards. Once a wagon has been set unless there is a convincing reveal it is so hard to get people to look at someone else. However there are some days that I have seen where a deadline is coming up and useful discussion is still going on. Take Kivam's game, I think there were some long slow days and some long eventful and productive days. I don't like the randomness of changing it, however...

 

48 hours is good, you should allow the players to petition for more time if they want it.

  • Club Leader
Posted
  Quote

I agree, I'm not sure how capping all the games at DM would work. I do get kind of upset that some people mod several games at once, one right after another, huge games on top of that, with so many players. They don't give other people a chance to mod and just encourage having too many games going on at once.

 

I completely agree with this. Up until tonight, I was modding two games at once, which I try to avoid, only because I had already pushed my standard game back once. I wanted to get it done, and let the queue keep moving. But, yeah, I do think it's courteous to take turns, for sure. I'm not sure how long I'll wait to mod again, because I was craving a new game to mod before my Disney one even ended, but I'm going to at least take a small break. It's only fair to the other mods.

 

Aemon, I think your plan will work with the revisions. I'd like to volunteer to be one of the testers of your faster-paced game, and see how it goes.

 

 

 

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