Weapons Training for Reds - please respond with your opinion

[Elgee]

Currently, the rules are as follows:

 

Any Accepted or Aes Sedai may train up to a Weapons Score of 5. Accepted may only train up to a 5 and no higher until reaching the rank of Aes Sedai. Accepted must train with someone of the Warders Yard as must Aes Sedai, though Aes Sedai may train with their Warder with permission. Full Rank Aes Sedai of any Ajah but the Red or Green may train to a Weapon Score of 7. Sisters of the Red and Green Ajah may train up to a 10, however they must be granted permission by BOTH DL’s. A form must be completed and rp plans submitted before approval will be reviewed. Each requirement completed from WS 1 to WS 10 must be pmed to your DL with a link to said thread for recording purposes.

Before you begin training, you must follow these steps in order.

 

 1. Permission from your Division Leader.

 2. Email the Warder's Division Leader at warders.staff@gmail.com with your information (bio, ws, div)

 

Also you may not bond anyone who doesn’t have a higher WS than you, so this limits your bonding prospects.

 

There's more, which you can read here: http://whitetower.aliciawilkerson.com/?page_id=62

 

Now, my personal opinion has always been that if you want to play with weapons, go make a Warder Character. Nowhere in the Books is there any mention (that I can recall) of AS training with weapons. AS have the OP to play with, and just because our male counterparts at the BT train with weapons, doesn't mean we should do the same. The Asha'man don't (didn't) have Warders, Aes Sedai do.

 

I therefore feel that AS also training as warriors is not only not according to the Books, but also encroaching on Warder territory.

 

Exceptions:

 

Green Ajah: They are the Battle Ajah, and can thus be considered a special case.

(Idea: Special Class about Battle Tactics)

 

Red Ajah: They were not allowed to Bond, and could thus also be considered a special case (in the past). Now they are allowed to Bond Asha'man, and we get into a tricky area.

 

I'd like to discuss the Red Ajah policy here.

 

How do you feel about weapons training for Reds? Since Bonding is now allowed, is there any justification for the Reds to

a) be allowed to have a higher score than the other Ajahs (apart from Green)

b) be allowed to do weapons training at all

 

I'd like you all to please vote (at the least), and feel free to give your opinions here. I would like to go with what the majority of Reds wish, but I don't want this to take forever before a decision is made, so if you disagree with my personal opinion, please say so soon!

 

Oh yes - you can check out the BT Weapon scores here, to compare your score (if you have one) with those of potential bondeds:  http://blacktowerdiv.wordpress.com/active-members/

 

 

PS: If you have done training up to level 7, or been granted permission by both DLs to train up to 10 (with your currently approved character - if your bio had to be reapproved, all Talents and permissions need to also be reapplied for), that will stand.

[minisamus]

Hmm, ignorant question, how high can Asha'man's WS possibly go? The highest I saw on the list was a 10, while other Ajahs can bond Warders who have more than 10.

 

Also right now only the Reds in the Hall bonded Asha'man at the meeting. What if an AS didn't choose to bond the Asha'man?

 

Just because there is no mention in the books doesn't mean it's not logical. Over the years AS who travel will face encounters and may be caught in situtions where their self defence doesn't depend on the OP.

 

Looking at the BT WS list descriptions I feel the WS is not at all improbable for a Red or Green:

5 The character knows the basic properties and uses of the weapons

7 The character has enough experience to fight reliably in group formations

10 The character is skilled enough with a weapon to teach others the basics of using that weapon

Notice even with WS 10 the char is skilled just enough to keep up and teach others the basic forms.

 

Also I have a personal question, what is Saline currently approved for?  :)

Edit: Nvm. Found her score!

[Elgee]

Saline would currently be allowed to train up to level 7, as all AS are.

 

One of the Ajah Heads put it quite well:

 

While I do agree with the possibility of being able to take a beginners class, basically a how to not kill yourself with a sword class, most Aes Sedai from the series seem to think that weapons are useless. I mean, when you think about it, why wait till you find a sword and pick it up when you can simply create a blade with air by thinking about it. Unless they're expecting to be inside a stedding the Aes Sedai rely heavily on their abilities to channel and when they don't think that's enough they usually bring Warders or armed guards along. I think that possibly a basic weapon course that will give you a WS of 1 or 2 (not kill yourself level) would be about all most Aes Sedai would be interested in, if they're interested at all.

[minisamus]

Green Ajah gets Warders and special battle weaves :)

 

And you cannot use weapons of power offensively 'cept for what your vows will permit. Shadowspawn, or in defence of your life, your Warder's, or your sister's.

[Elgee]

I'm not following - could you explain what you mean, please?

[Kara_J]

OK - I don't think Aes Sedai from whatever Ajah should formally train with Weapons. One Aes Sedai here'n'there may know a bit of how to handle a knife or a sword or even hand to hand due her rough upbringing, one girl in a family of brothers, dad a soldier type thing or maybe  even a private "here's how not to stick yourself with the pointy bit" lesson from a warder to his Aes Sedai.

 

The only bit of "Weapons training" I can forsee any Aes Sedai using is more along the lines of tactics and battle history as opposed to the sweaty, grunting,  heaving bits of metal around type of training - as men do it so much better :P

 

So my vote is no - no weapons training at all, unless it's specially applied for with good reasons given.

 

 

EDIT: I think miniasmus is saying that weapons training is a must as the Oaths say you can't use the OP offensively unless it's in defence of yourself or your sisters/warder. The point she misses is that you shouldn't need weapons unless it's in defence - in which case she can Channel - unless she's Black Ajah and wants to kill random people without the OP?

[minisamus]

Black Ajah are not bound to the vows, so no. :)

 

My point of bringing up the vows is that the OP can't be used offensively in defence of anybody other than yourself, another AS, or your Warders.

 

Honestly it doesn't bother me. I am quite happy playing my AS without any weapon ability. But there is also no real reason to restrict them from being allowed.

 

We don't like the idea of a warrior AS running around maiming people. So we don't have to play one. But just because we don't want to play one doesn't mean someone else shouldn't be allowed. It opens up more RP opportunities and possibilities.

 

Edit: Although Greens have battle weaves taught to them and no one else.  If one ajah can fight with weapons, they all can. Exceptions would be arbitrary.

[Arie]

Excuse me? Do you have ANY idea how incredibly hard I, and James, worked to even allow the Aes Sedai (ALL Aes Sedai) to have the same options available to them as that of any other Channeller on the forums?

 

Kin can have WS up to 10. Asha'man can have WS up to 10, Freelander channelers can have WS up to 10, and now you want to restrict the Aes Sedai from what every other division has? The ability to achieve it is Harder than ANY other division and yet you want to restrict them even more?

 

I made it so that way the Option was available to ALL Aes Sedai should the PLAYER choose. You don't want your Red to have WS 10, don't apply to train. Don't screw with the chances for others simple because you personally don't like it.

 

It's all about equal opportunity. If you want to know more on the history and staff arguments that stemmed from this, feel free to email me.

[Arie]

the original proposal written by James, Reviewed by myself.

 

The existing weapon score cap that is placed upon the WT is completely unecessary.  From having once been opposed to any sort of WS raise, I have been increasingly convinced over the years of the relevance of the argument to raise the cap and after so many years, it is long overdue that this particular problem was addressed and settled.

 

In order to best communicate my thoughts, I will first outline my reasons and justifications for the raising from the cap from first tier to second tier.  I shall then explore the arguments I am aware of that are against the raising and why I believe them to be flawed.  After that, I have some suggestions about possible ways to approach advancement of the WS.  Lastly, I will pose several questions that I believe need answering before any effective counter argument can be made against the raising of the Aes Sedai WS cap because these are questions that I have yet to find satisfactory answers for.

 

Arguments for the Raising

 

IC Considerations:

 

- The PSW is egalitarian in nature.  Even in the books, female fighters were not entirely uncommon in the Westlands.  For example, Deni Colford was a bouncer before she became a personal guard for Elayne, and another guard by the name of Rasoria Domanche was a Hunter of the Horn.  In the PSW this has been taken a step further, the same cultural stigma we might have imagined for female fighters is not present and there are a number to be found in various divisions which means there cannot be the same stigma against any women bearing arms.

 

- The Warders have female Trainees, Tower Guards and Warders.  Not only does this show a Tower endorsement of female fighters and serving in dangerous tasks, these people also serve as role models for Aes Sedai who might question the ability of a woman to defend themselves and even as inspiration.

 

- In the PSW, there is a well established tradition of Accepted and sisters seeking mentors and trainers from amongst the Warders, we have a system specifically built around this.  If there is endorsement from the Tower in this activity, enough so that they make training available to Accepted (and have for years), clearly there cannot be stigma attached to sisters wielding weapons except by individual sisters who disagree with it as opposed to a general culture of taboo on the subject.

 

- Sisters have more than enough time to gradually improve their skills beyond the first tier and into the second.  Even if they trained a couple of times a week (and some sisters have theirs training ever morning), they have more than enough time to improve at that rate.  Even an Aes Sedai who only trained a couple of times a month over a period of fifty years is still going to end up higher than a five.  For those who train more frequently, they should easily be able to extend into the second tier with absolutely no difficulty.  Indeed, it is only the fourth tier that makes a requirement of daily and consistent practice.

 

- In terms of time that Aes Sedai have free, many sisters do have the time to spare on training if they wish it.  There are many assumptions that Aes Sedai are busy from dawn to dusk, but let us be realistic about this.  Aes Sedai are completely free to make up their own timetables unless they are on specific Ajah business.  Blues are the most free in this case, with absolutely no duties apart from those imposed on themselves or by Ajah.  Of course, there are other natural possibilities like the Greens, but in the end any individual Aes Sedai that wished to allot the time to practice could do so without interfering with their duties.

 

OOC Considerations:

 

- It brings the WT into line with the PSW wide policy that has the maximum for all channelers (with a certain few exceptions) at WS ten, it currently stands as the only division, channeling or otherwise, to not have access to tier two.

 

- By expanding the WS, it creates greater opportunity for AS and Tower Guard/Warders to interact by not only creating more opportunity for them to train and work together, but also by giving the Aes Sedai a greater understanding of combat and therefore of their guards and warders.  Combat is no longer a mystifying element to them, a greater point of relation between the two that can be built upon.

 

- WT players that have their characters training persistently are not left having to try and conjure up fanciful reasons why their characters remain at WS five when they should be further ahead.  The training should be followed to the logical conclusion,

 

- It allows for a problem that has persisted for years, for good reason, to be finally resolved rather than having it repeatedly come back to haunt everyone, which it inevitably does.

 

Some of the objections against the WS Cap raise and their flaws

 

- Book Aes Sedai:  One of the most common objections is that Aes Sedai from the books are not seen using weapons, relying on their Warders to do their fighting for them.  This objection is smoothly undercut by the fact that we have already changed this aspect of culture, there is already an established tradition of not only training Aes Sedai in weaponry and self defence.  Not only do we have this, it has been in place for years.

 

- No precedent:  It has been argued that there is no precedent for Aes Sedai to hold a higher WS.  There was also a time when there was no precedent for PC characters to be able to earn a WS of 20 at the Warders but we did not say that it should not be because there was no precedent.  The argument of no precedent is nonsensical, to say that something should not be done because it has not been done is not an argument, it is simply saying "things are the way they are cause thats the way they are".

 

- Aes Sedai's time is taken up with the one power:  Another argument based upon the books, it is fundamentally flawed in both the books and the PSW.  In the books, Novices and Accepted are taught specifically to use the one power as little as possible, this is part of why their progress in developing their strength as channelers is significantly curtailed (and also why BT progress is so quick because their students use the power to do everything).  It is noted that even after they become Aes Sedai that the habits result in them doing many things manually rather than using channeling, such as cleaning a room, because it is so ingrained.

 

As for our PSW WT, while it isn't quite as strict it our Aes Sedai are still not 'consumed' by use of the one power.  Their education is still quite fine and they are involved in many pursuits that are not related to the one power of their own choosing.  One could take Rossa Sedai's interest in food distribution and starvation as one case, another would be Shaneevae's studies that utilise the one power only as a tool rather than a focus.  The claim that an Aes Sedai is concerned first and foremost with the One Power is patently false.

 

- The cap is in place so as to reflect the AS focus on the One Power:  I've taken this to mean that the cap is in place to make sure that people do not 'diminish' the one power aspect of their character by mixing in the WS.  This threatens to sound reasonable until the same principle is then applied to other possibilities.  For example, we should remove access to the fourth tier of both WS and DS for Wolfkin because it truly detracts from the Wolfkin's metamorphosis with their senses and their relation with the wolves.  Its a fundamentally flawed objection that attempts to state that a limit must be imposed in order for the 'prime' aspect to be 'better appreciated'.  An argument that reveals itself false when applied to other divisions.

 

- Warders/TG are made obsolete:  This objection assumes that a Warder or Tower Guard is simply a WS.  It also fails to observe three very important points that will be dealt with seperately.

 

The first is that a Warder or Tower Guard is only able to 'save' an Aes Sedai in two particular circumstances.  When they discover a hidden or unknown threat to an Aes Sedai and intercede, acting in their capacity as a spare set of eyes with a sword to complement.  The other possibility is when an Aes Sedai is incapacitated and/or unable to defend themselves.  In both cases, the Aes Sedai's WS is completely irrelevant and therefore does not spoil a Warder/TG's opportunities in anyway.  The sole possible exception would be when an Aes Sedai is in a stedding, highly unlikely to begin with and an Aes Sedai with a modicum of intelligence would take (and RP circumstances would require) an escort.

 

The second point is that a Warder in particular, let alone Tower Guard, serves a greater purpose than just being another blade.  Tower Guards can serve as confidantes, guides, supplying 'common sense' where it is needed.  Warders are a step further, they may use their emotional strength to stabilise their Aes Sedai's, they are a pillar of strength that their Aes Sedai may draw from.  They are the most intimate and devoted friend that their Aes Sedai will know not only because of what they will speak to one another of, but because they are inside each other's heads constantly.

 

Lastly, there is the point that an Aes Sedai could get as high as a Warder or Tower Guard.  What is ignored is that while an Aes Sedai could supercede a new Tower Guard or Warder, thats an Aes Sedai reaching their peak.  All a Tower Guard or Warder need do is the TG ceremony and one req and they are already able to match the best that an Aes Sedai can achieve, and then they have the other two tiers open to them where they may overtake and outdo Aes Sedai with impunity.  Warders never have, and never will be in danger of being made 'obsolete' or being 'marginalised'.

 

- Increasing the scores would make Aes Sedai Godderlike:  Other channeling divisions already function with the WS tier two cap and we do not accuse them of being godlike, the Aes Sedai are no different.

 

Requirements

 

Several things to be considered:

 

- The Aes Sedai could and should learn in a different pattern from 6-10 so that it reflects that they are at the high end of their training rather than the lower middle range like trainees.  Reqs that are RP based would most likely be a good bet.

 

- Reqs should be built in a way that fosters interaction with the Warders division, and possibly beyond as well in order to help encourage WT characters outwards and foster interdivisional RP.

 

- Reqs should, while being RP based, also be focused on weapon use so that only those who are going to actually use their skills will end up raising it.

 

Questions

 

In order for the Aes Sedai cap to be proven to me as being correct, at least these few questions must be satisfied because I have been unable to answer myself to satisfaction:

 

- In a PSW where weapons training is acceptable and in some cases encouraged for Aes Sedai, how can a legitimate IC explanation be formulated for the lack of progress beyond a WS 5 amongst people who can live up to three hundred years?  Yet someone in two years of constant practice can easily outstrip them.

 

- How is it fair for one division to be marginalised at the expense of others?

 

- In what way does the Aes Sedai elevation to Tier two access harm anyone elses RP?

 

- Is it even correct to assert that Warders must be the blade and deliberately target and minimise the Aes Sedai's WS to push them that way, when we know from the books that many Aes Sedai either did not bond at all, or refused to bond a second time after losing a Warder due to the intensity of the pain?  How can this be interpreted as anything other than a paternalistic policy?

 

 

 

As a final note, Andrea caught up with me as per the request that was made and after I pointed out that I had not gone behind her back and that I had approached her months earlier, she gave me leave to continue this discussion on behalf of the White Tower.

[Elgee]

Honestly it doesn't bother me. I am quite happy playing my AS without any weapon ability. But there is also no real reason to restrict them from being allowed.

 

Just want to make sure you understood that none of those who have already done weapons training, or were approved for the higher one recently, will be affected by whatever decision is made. Those people will keep their scores, or still be allowed to train to the approved score. This is only for the FUTURE.

 

Aubrey, I'll reply to your posts later - right now I'm just going to celebrate the fact that I wasn't actually murdered today, despite threats made to do so.

[minisamus]

. . . You alright there? 

 

Yep, it's the future I've been thinking about. The current WS 10 cap isn't a mistake and should be left alone.

[Tigara]

I'd say leave it. If an AS feels the need to lug a sword around instead of shooting fireballs, that's her perogative. It's an option.

[Arie]

Elgee, you can generally do what you want. You are DL, but these are the facts and if you want to screw with it, then that's your prerogative. Mine is to give you these facts and just letting you know that I disagree with your intentions. I don't need a response. You'll do what you want/The Ajah wants regardless.

 

 

*gets off her soapbox and disappears back to her little corner of silence*

[Elgee]

Elgee, you can generally do what you want. You are DL, but these are the facts and if you want to screw with it, then that's your prerogative. Mine is to give you these facts and just letting you know that I disagree with your intentions. I don't need a response. You'll do what you want/The Ajah wants regardless.

 

 

*gets off her soapbox and disappears back to her little corner of silence*

 

Aubrey, I don't appreciate the hostility coming from your post. I'm not trying to "screw" with anything. I've opened a debate on the matter, to see how the majority of people feel about it. If I didn't care about that, I could have just discussed it with the Admins, and if they approved whatever my decision was, informed you of it.

 

Now, I said I had stuff going on IRL, which is why I couldn't respond to your post right away. You posted something quite long, and I haven't had the time to study it as it deserves. I'm most certainly not going to just ignore what you posted - I WILL read it and respond as soon as I have time. I might even change my personal opinion, after reading it - who knows?

 

As for me generally being able to do what I want - that's not quite true, or at least not how I operate. Unless it's something really small, or very urgent, I will always seek the opinion and approval of the Admins (and my members, if possible or warranted). They have a certain vision of what they would like the PSW to be like, and I am "employed" by them to carry that out. Should that ever clash with what I believe is in the best interests of the WT, I will try my utmost to persuade them otherwise (hasn't happened yet, btw). In the end, though, they are the bosses, and I must abide by their decisions or resign, as they must abide by Jason's.

[Arie]

I'm perfectly capable of knowing how DM works. I doubt there is anything less then mutual hostility in any of our posts. :) Thus why I rarely post at all.

 

[Elgee]

Aubrey, I'll reply to your posts later - right now I'm just going to celebrate the fact that I wasn't actually murdered today, despite threats made to do so.

 

Please point me to the hostility in that post, Aubrey. I fail to see what is hostile about trying to make sure you don't think I'm deliberately ignoring you, and actually giving you a reason why I can't concentrate properly on your post, as it deserves.

 

Anyway, moving along.

 

Let me start off by saying that all your opinions, but ESPECIALLY those that DISagree with me, are much appreciated and have given me great food for thought. I’ve already changed my personal opinion from “any WS for AS is a damn idiotic idea and totally implausible” to “oh my yes – ok obviously some would come to the Tower having already gotten some, or would have a really good reason to train once they’ve become AS”.

 

Let me tell you a bit about my mission, before we move on to this specific matter. As I’ve posted around, and as approved by the Admins, this is the basics:

 

The PSW is a Portal Stone world based on the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan. Any characters and RPs in the PSW are expected to conform to what would be plausible or a logical extrapolation, based on the WoT books. This includes the behaviour of Aes Sedai, to a lesser extent that of Accepted, and also the relationships between Novices, Accepted and Aes Sedai.

 

Obviously, character weaknesses make for more interesting RPs, and the Light knows Aes Sedai are not perfect! However, Aes Sedai make EXTREME sacrifices to gain the shawl, and only more so thereafter. They WANT to be Aes Sedai, more than anything else. Moreover, they have to have “the right stuff” in order to be allowed to go through the Arches and the Rings. Those who couldn’t “cut it”, would have been put out of the Tower and most likely joined the Kin. Anyone who has made it to a position of authority, like Sitter, Ajah Head, MoN, etc, would be especially determined, intelligent and dedicated to the Tower. Bear that in mind when you make your character's weaknesses.

 

 

Now, I am not infallible. I can be wrong. In fact, I can be a total dumb-ass ignoramus at times, just like everyone else. Just because someone stuck a DL sticker on my forehead doesn’t suddenly make me an omnipotent god with an infallible memory for all the rules. If you disagree with me, say so, and give me evidence or a logical argument to the contrary. I will ALWAYS listen with an open mind. And just because I have disagreed with your previous 29 arguments, doesn’t mean that I’ll disagree with this one. In the end, I’ll take all opinions on board, and make the decision I think will be best for the WT and the PSW. That might mean that sometimes I’ll go WITH the majority, and sometimes I will not.

So … anyway, now we’ve gotten that out the way, let’s move on to specifics.

 

Excuse me? Do you have ANY idea how incredibly hard I, and James, worked to even allow the Aes Sedai (ALL Aes Sedai) to have the same options available to them as that of any other Channeller on the forums?

 

Kin can have WS up to 10. Asha'man can have WS up to 10, Freelander channelers can have WS up to 10, and now you want to restrict the Aes Sedai from what every other division has? The ability to achieve it is Harder than ANY other division and yet you want to restrict them even more?

 

I made it so that way the Option was available to ALL Aes Sedai should the PLAYER choose. You don't want your Red to have WS 10, don't apply to train. Don't screw with the chances for others simple because you personally don't like it.

 

It's all about equal opportunity. If you want to know more on the history and staff arguments that stemmed from this, feel free to email me.

 

 

 

“AS to have the same options available as that of any other Channeller”

“Equal opportunity”

 

Let’s take those two things you mentioned specifically, and examine them from the other side. Which channellers do we have?

 

Black Tower: They train extensively with the OP, more than anyone else. They also train with weapons, though their average maximum seems to be 10.

Their handicaps:

1) they are feared and reviled, and up until the amnesty, gentled as soon as found, if not killed.

2) The Taint is pretty much the biggest handicap there is. Not only do they suffer terribly physically, but they also go raving insane.

3) They are pushed to the limits and beyond, causing a very high rate of death

4) Their only option (by decree of the Dragon) is to become living weapons for TG

5) They cannot train to a very high WS without very good motivation

6) They must rely solely on themselves – no Warders to “feed off” or protect them.

 

Damane: Their OP training seems to be better than that of AS, in some instances.

Their handicaps:

1) They are slaves, with absolutely no free will or choice

2) They are abused, both physically and mentally

3) The only Weaves they can learn, are those taught to them by their Suldams. (No Healing, for instance)

4) They cannot defend themselves in any way, unless they are linked to a Suldam, and said Suldam allows it

5) They most certainly won’t be allowed anywhere near a weapon

6) They can’t even rely on themselves, as they have no free will -  no Warders to “feed off” or protect them.

 

The Kin: At least some of them would most probably train with weapons, since they’re not allowed to channel openly to defend themselves. (Interesting note: there are no Kin with WS)

Their handicaps:

1) Not allowed, according to the Rules of the Kin, to channel openly (especially not where they can get caught out)

2) Not allowed to explore the OP further than they’ve been taught, officially

3) Not allowed to have relationships

4) Must disappear and reinvent themselves every few years to prevent exposure

5) Living in fear of being discovered by the AS

6) No formal system of Weapons training, like that provided by the WY or BT  is available to them

7) They must rely solely on themselves – no Warders to “feed off” or protect them.

 

Wise Ones: Greatly revered amongst their people. All Aiel are taught some fighting techniques. Many Wise Ones could have gained quite an impressive WS before becoming apprentices, probably more so than any other group of Channellers (especially if they were Maidens before).

Their handicaps:

1) Firmly discouraged from using physical force. Their weapons are even taken and melted down once they become apprentices. RPs where they fight with anything other than their wits or the OP, would be incredibly scarce.

2) Wise Ones who can channel and those who can’t are all on equal footing. Channelling isn’t really a major part of their “duties” or modus operandi.

3) They are disregarded by almost everyone other than Aiel.

4) They must rely solely on themselves – no Warders to “feed off” or protect them.

 

Windfinders:

Their handicaps:

1) They are subservient to the Sailmistresses, etc

2) They must rely solely on themselves – no Warders to “feed off” or protect them.

 

I could go on, but quite frankly I don’t see the point, so I’ll just move on to what advantages Aes Sedai have over all these groups:

1) They are trained quite extensively (though some groups are better in some areas, none best them overall)

2) They are either revered, respected or feared enough throughout Randland (including the Aiel, up until recently) that their word is pretty much law. Even the Commander of the CotL would come if the Amyrlin summoned him.

3) They can quite openly channel pretty much wherever they want, except Amadicia and Illian/Tear (can’t remember which now)

4) Not only can they (almost always) openly channel to defend themselves, they are also the only group who have that ENORMOUS extra benefit, namely Warders. Just because some choose to not Bond (which is quite few, btw!), they all have that option, apart from the Reds (until recently).

 

Now, look at all of that, and then tell me HONESTLY which group is the LEAST disadvantaged? So some groups can have a higher weapons score than AS. So frigging what? AS have many advantages over THEM. Why not just disband the Warders altogether and say “Sisters are doing it for themselves.” Or even say that all Channellers should be allowed to bond Warders.

 

Everything is always flexible, to a lesser or larger degree, of course. The problem has come in (especially with the WT), that over the years, the rules were stretched, then bent, then broken, then changed (or even worse – they weren’t changed, they were simply ignored) - until things got so far out of hand that intervention had to come from the top. I now have the task of setting things right. Some people are inevitably going to be upset by that. That’s unfortunate, and will be avoided where possible, but the needs and rights of the majority have to supersede those of a few individuals.

 

What are the needs / rights of the majority? To determine that, let’s think of WHY people want to RP at DM. I’d say they've read the books, and think: damn, I so want to RP being an AS / Asha'man / Wise One / insert type of character of choice here.

Now they come here, and expect to be able to RP those types AS THEY WERE IN THE BOOKS, not "well, I'd love to RP a Wise One, but she must be able to fight with a sword. " ... that's just non-sensical, and I'm pretty sure NOT what 99% of those people will come here expecting to find.

 

As someone so succinctly put it: Players have a choice on which characters they want to play and they can play them all if they want. But if you CHOOSE to play a character that is characterized by certain abilities and NOT others then don't start whining that you want those other abilities for that character too. They know what they choose.  There are no One Power wielding, Aiel spear throwing, Seanchan guarded Ogier Blademasters.  Deal with it.

 

It all basically comes down to being creative within the restrictions of a specific character type.  If they don't have that creativity, then it's not our fault and we cannot change the basic system of the PSW just for them.  The Revolutions board is there for anyone who wants to take the basic idea of WoT RPing, and go outside the borders with it.  (That has a grand total of 18 threads in the past YEAR, btw, of which 7 went over 1 page.)

 

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All that being said, and as I said right at the top, I can now see how having a WS is plausible, in some instances.

 

I don't see that the Reds should be allowed to have one higher than anyone else, though, and any WS would need a very good justification. Novices and Accepted doing weapons training isn't justified in any way, that I can see.

[Elgee]

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