Shadow over Fiddlesmouth Game Thread [GAME OVER, TOWN WINS]

[Jeran]

Godfathers are usually the head of the mafia, correct? Most useful with a dual team and/or recruiting element? (omg, kill me now! I said relic again...) not a dual team.

 

Re: The bolded bit - Not in my experience (or else I didn't notice that was the case in past games) which is why I found your statement surprising.

 

and LOL at the relic bit. 

[Alys Kinch]

It has been a while since I have played here, but a birdie told me the games aren't being set up proportionately with each team starting with an equal opportunity to win. They are being set up based on the next gimmick. If that is the case, like I said, game balance is different for different people, but that is the principal I based my argument on. I trust Kivy to do a fair job at it. Some roles don't make sense if used wrong.

[Alys Kinch]

Wanted to add, I cannot tell what you bolded. Also the reason I thought it odd to posit the existance of a godfather while rebutting Aemon is because you usually wouldn't want those thoughts associated as they were.

[MsDanya]

I never disagreed about the relics, but what can you really say about them? all you have is guesswork, but everything you can guess about a relic, you can guess about a role as well. Thats what sucks about the relics, no one even knows who's got which one, or how many there are. How many were lost with people dying? I'm guessing thats a few.

 

But I also agree with Aemon a bit Alys, I know I'd hesitate a bit to post with some of the comments you've made about other players. but thats just my opinion I guess  :)

[Tigraine]

I agree Danya!  Even though the relics are important, there isn't much that can be said about them.  I had posted that maybe we should try to figure out more about them but that was a major FAIL. 

 

I feel like the constant "try to figure out the relics and vessel" thing has came from Alys. At first I thought it was a little suspicious then I thought it was helpful and now I think it's suspicious again.  I know that's jumping around a lot but that's the way it's been. 

 

[glow=red,2,300]Alys[/glow] it seems like you are just wanting to post, and mostly about things we can't help.  Sorry, I just think that is meant to hide something.

[Alys Kinch]

Told you, kill me. *shrugs* If it is something you all can agree on, that is something right? I figure we lost this days ago, so do whatever.

 

I don't have anything to hide, it is the reason why I stay open.

[Kivam]

Ok, signing off for the next 2 days for passover.  Please send all PMs to me and DPR and Nae (who also volunteered).  And if you guys could poke them about maintaining the vote count . . .

[Naeann]

I shall try good sir.

[Lavinya]

Alrighty, sorry for the brief absence, Easter happened :).

 

I just looked up the PM re investigating Pete again - I was told that he is not a cultist. (Cultist in this theme game = mafia.)

 

You guys voting for Alys is nuts. You're voting her on the possibility that she might be a godfather? Just because she disagreed that the role exists? And because she's been trying to find information on the relics? I think we need a balance - we can't ignore the game in favour of hunting relics, but nor can we ignore such an important part of this game. It is my belief that we cannot win this game unless we use the relics appropriately - unless we combine the three. So, ignoring them and voting Alys for trying to work out what she can - AFTER she's been cleared by the finder - is just plain nuts. Seriously. Stop being annoyed with how she is playing the game (and lord knows I was too, just go back and find my little blow up at her) and find real reasons for voting someone. This far in the game, your reasoning is not enough.

 

I like the idea of giving me your biggest suspicions and why. At this point, it would be good if we can all be on the same page, especially me. I'd rather view someone who we have big suspicions for, rather than stabbing blindly.

 

I'm voting [glow=red,2,300]Tigraine[/glow] at present. You seem to keep flipping back and forth and that has me wondering about you. You think Aly is helpful, then not helpful, even though she hasn't changed her gameplay at all? Seems fishy to me.

[Alys Kinch]

Thanks, Lav. I was looking for someone else to see that about her. She symps, she fights, she symps... She's strong willed, she's not sure...

 

For the rest, I figure I ought to get it out there. I am a difficult person to get along with if you don't get me. Don't read what I say as mean because mostly it isn't. I just don't say things in a fluffy, cuddley way. I don't pull punches; if I disagree, I will say so. If I agree, I say that too. Pretty sure I have too. The only person I was deliberately mean to here was Anox. And it was only mean because it was blunt.

[Verbal32]

For the most part, I'm in agreement with Alys.  But... (There's always a "but", right?)

 

....there is something that bothers me about her.  Alys, you received a couple of votes and instead of shoving Lavinya's positive viewing down their throats, you posted what amounts to a "whatever, kill me" post.  I don't normally see that type of posts from a townie, so it raises my suspicion.

 

On the other hand, I do agree with your assessment (and Lav's) of Tigraine.  I'm not sure if that translates to scum, though.

[Alys Kinch]

Verb, they are voting me for "shoving" the relics talk down their throats, so would it help me to talk up Lav's viewing more than we have? Probably not. We have had godfather suggested to even negate that viewing, so even less helpful. Also, I have given my stance on the relics a hundred times; want to hear again? Yeah, rather thought not. What else do they or you want me to fight against? There isn't anything else posted... That's why it is whatever. They have nothing but stubborn wishful thinking, and I cannot actually fight that.

 

To borrow from some off thread conversations- mafia isn't about looking for the next gimmick; it isn't about playing so you can finally get that great devious role. It is about getting over your paranoia enough to play as a team and find the clues to who must be killed. Being mafia is easy; being a good townie is what makes you a good player.

[Alys Kinch]

For the record, note the difference in good townie and popular townie. A good townie does what is best for the town whether it is popular or not. This may not help my innocent argument any, but a good mafia member appears to do the same.

[Verbal32]

What else do they or you want me to fight against? There isn't anything else posted... That's why it is whatever. They have nothing but stubborn wishful thinking, and I cannot actually fight that.

 

Good point, and I have something to add that might help out in that regard.  Remember my statement regarding epic failure with my role (failure as in I suck at it)?  Here's why...

 

I'm the tracker.  Typical type - I can find where somebody goes at night.  I've pretty much sucked at it so far, but I'm now thinking that is actually information that is useful, especially considering how it weighs against 2 other items of note for me:

 

1.  I tracked Pete last night.  He visited somebody, and then he was dead.  Not necessarily related, but who knows.  Also, not sure if his ability (whatever it was) was still executed, or null due to him getting killed.  Unsure at this point.  Also unsure if I should reveal who he visited....thoughts?

 

2.  Alys, I've tracked you on TWO separate occasions in this game.  The first time I got no result, but it also coincided with me getting silenced for the day, so I tracked you again just in case.  Still no result.

 

So what does this mean?  Well, it makes me think I can't target you and get information.  Which begs the question, how did Lavinya get info?  If it wasn't for a lack of a counterclaim to Lav, I'd be thinking you two were mafia and playing us all.  As it is, I'm still unsure, but VERY suspicious that she was able to get a result, and I was not.  Twice.

[Alys Kinch]

Responding to point 2 first. I never, ever say this in a game, but Verb, consider yourself lucky. I am straight vanilla townie. I haven't even done a thief attempt half the nights. I have nothing but what you have seen on thread. WIFOM it any which way, but occam's razor may be your friend here. I haven't done anything (day 1 dpr theft excluded, pm'd twice on dead players, theif play today, I think is my total), so what would there be to see? Which exactly matches Lav's result.

 

As far as Pete goes, his killer may have acted first, meaning Pete went to do something but was killed in the process. As a tracker, have you seen others' movements in conjunction with your target or only your target and their target's name? Remember a third may be in the shadows acting toward Pete, unseen.

 

That said, I can't lie. I am interested in how your info stacks up to Lav's...

[aemonkristen]

Point of interest- we do not learn a persons role on death. That being said, it is possible for someone to claim finder and not be counter-slaimed if the real finder is already dead. Just something to ponder.

[Jeran]

Regarding Pete.  Here is what he said in his Bah post:

Bah I had the scum figured out to. All I can say is I thought I was going to win :(

 

That kind of sounds like he had the scum figured out before his final night.  So his last night visit could be a WIFOM...was he double checking the scum? was he checking others to try and found out more info?

 

 

[Hybrid]

2.  Alys, I've tracked you on TWO separate occasions in this game.  The first time I got no result, but it also coincided with me getting silenced for the day, so I tracked you again just in case.  Still no result.

 

So what does this mean?  Well, it makes me think I can't target you and get information.  Which begs the question, how did Lavinya get info?  If it wasn't for a lack of a counterclaim to Lav, I'd be thinking you two were mafia and playing us all.  As it is, I'm still unsure, but VERY suspicious that she was able to get a result, and I was not.  Twice.

Verbal, it sounds to me like you're grasping at straws here.  If you already thought she was guilty due to other actions, then this post would make more sense.  But coming from a guy who usually plays straight to the point, this is suspicious.  Unless I'm missing your role details, no result just means she doesn't have a role. 

[MsDanya]

Regarding Pete.  Here is what he said in his Bah post:

Bah I had the scum figured out to. All I can say is I thought I was going to win :(

 

That kind of sounds like he had the scum figured out before his final night.  So his last night visit could be a WIFOM...was he double checking the scum? was he checking others to try and found out more info?

 

 

 

not having a godfather role, doesnt have to mean that there's no way of turning people either. I'm pretty sure there's a relic out there who can do that.. (SEe Alys, I'm talking about relics, yay! ^^)

[Tigraine]

I know that I have been back and forth on whether or not Alys is helpful and that's just the way I am.  For the first few days I though, "this is annoying, how can we find scum with all of this going on," then I started to to think that maybe we should focus on the relics a little more and see what we can get out of them.  When I thought this, I said it and tried to figure out how we could say something and Alys said that she had already tried so she was done with it.  Finally, I decided that no we can't do anything about the relics when I can't figure out how to talk about what I may or may not have and nobody is willing to help me talk about it.  There's my reasoning, take from it what you will. 

 

I am also a vanilla townie, the only sucessful thief plays that I have had have come from 2 players upon death, which I was informed by PM that I could not even hint at the names of these relics or whether or not they are empty or have been used and finally what the results were if they were used.  So excuse me if I think, given these restrictions, that relic talk is useless. I know that as far certain ones go I am 2/3 times more likely to know as much as there is to know about them as anyone. I am 1/3 times outsmarted on them. If you see what I'm saying, nothing can be figured out until all 3 of the set are in one persons control! 

 

Finally, I wanted to say something to Alys...I understand completely that this is just a game, so if at any point you have gotten "hateful" or "harsh" I have never thought anything about it.  I would hope that everyone sees it the same if I have gotten snippy.

[Hybrid]

Thanks, Lav. I was looking for someone else to see that about her. She symps, she fights, she symps... She's strong willed, she's not sure...

I don't think it's a scum tell, personally.

[Alys Kinch]

Disagree, Danya, or at least without further info. Items like that are usually an either or not a both action. That means to me, at least, there would have been a night or so with no kill. Unless you are assuming the early death on a lynch theory is wrong and could explain why or how... It is the only other potential recruit tool I have seen mentioned and the players touched there were both innocent

[Alys Kinch]

Hybrid, I haven't played with her enough to know her tells. Also, something like that isn't enough alone, though alone it is susicious and worth noting. Two reasons why I haven't voted her.

 

Tigs, I think you just said all is not lost, but until enough someones take the relics seriously and stop throwing their hands in the air, there is nothing anyone can do except try to find a way to post secret info. It stops there though. I sincerely think we should be tossing ideas around, accepting and rejecting as we see fit, as a group who are sharing their reasons for why they see how they see.

[Alys Kinch]

Lastly, this has bugged me for days: [glow=red,2,300]aemon[/glow] for appearing to me to be overall unproductive to the town. Specifics were previously stated.

 

Mods, vote count? I remember only some 3 or 4...

[Verbal32]

But coming from a guy who usually plays straight to the point, this is suspicious.  Unless I'm missing your role details, no result just means she doesn't have a role. 

 

Interestingly enough, I am playing straight to the point.  I was actually being so direct that it effectively disguised my true info (by design, of course  :P).  Details to follow.

 

I am straight vanilla townie. I haven't even done a thief attempt half the nights. I have nothing but what you have seen on thread. WIFOM it any which way, but occam's razor may be your friend here. I haven't done anything (day 1 dpr theft excluded, pm'd twice on dead players, theif play today, I think is my total), so what would there be to see? Which exactly matches Lav's result.

 

Doubt that.  Details to follow.

 

 

Ok, here goes.  Alys, I think you're lying.  I said I received no result from you.  However, I never stated what the results I get from players that are potentially roleless innocents.  If a player doesn't perform a night action, I get results that they didn't do anything or go anywhere.  Buuut, if they do something, I'm told who they visit.  Such as I know who Pete visited last night.

 

Also, Alys, I received a no results for you.  If you were a roleless innocent, I think it's more likely that I would receive results that you did nothing....which I have gotten on a few other players.  The results (or lack thereof) I received for you implies something else - either I was blocked, which is why I tried it again, or your role stops it somehow.  I highly doubt I was blocked the only 2 times I tried to track you, so I'm going with either a relic or your role.  If the latter, you aren't roleless.  And I'm not worried about outing the Healer here, as that isn't a typical side effect for that role.

 

And if you'd like to bring up Occam's Razor, it tells me you are scum.  The simplest explanation is usually the correct one, right?  Well, the simplest explanation is that you are not a roleless innocent, and are a LLL.

 

[glow=red,2,300]Alys[/glow]