Nicola's first Foretelling?

[mellojoe]

Doing a re-read and came across this.

 

Lord of Chaos

Chapter:14: Dreams and Nightmares

 

Its during the time when a bubble of evil pops in Salidar.  The Aes Sedai there think it is Sammael attacking them, so they begin linking.

 

Suddenly Nicola spoke, sounding half-asleep.  "The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond.  Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives.  The great battle done, but the world not done with battle.  The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants.  The future teeters on the edge of a blade."

Nicola kind of blacked out, because she doesn't remember saying anything.  The others just kind of brush it off as though she is just tired.

 

Has this been discussed, yet?  If so point me in the right direction.

 

If not?

I can't quite make it all out.  Obviously it hints at wars even after Tarmon Gai'don, which reminds me of the wars that carved the nations after Artur Hawkwing.  Also a bit about guardians and servants seems that the Aes Sedai and Asha'man will find harmony somehow.  And the return, could literally mean "Return", or the Seanchan coming back.

 

Any thoughts?

[Majsju]

It has been discussed a lot.

 

The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond.  Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives

Elayne, Avi and Min. And Rand, though it is uncertain what the 'dead yet lives' refers to. Probably Rands prophecised death, that according to the finns is required for him to survive.

 

The great battle done, but the world not done with battle

Ok, there will still be wars after TG. Hardly a surprise, considering the state of the world right now.

 

The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants

The return is the Seanchan, and the land is more or less divided by them already. The guardians are the Asha'man, balancing the Aes Sedai.

 

The future teeters on the edge of a blade

Ok, dangerous times ahead, we get it.

[Caveman_Nick]

The future teeters on the edge of a blade

Ok, dangerous times ahead, we get it.

 

I think this is an over simplification of this part of the prophecy.  It could refer to the sword that Rand now wears and the significance of it coming to bear OR it could refer to some way he who is dead yet lives will be brought back to life through the use of Callandor.

[Owayn The Traveller]

Brigette is dead yet lives, kinda. Could this be how Rand lives. By the way when did it happen to Brigette? Books 4-6 by any chance?

[mb]

Great Battle, there may be a chance that it is not Tarmon Gaidon.

Since I have not had a reply to this post, I take there is no proof of the exact battle.

 

Lion sword, I agree is Elayne.  Dedicated spear, I agree is Aviendha.  She who sees beyond, I agree is Min.

He who is dead yet lives, to me points to a male character.  Likely candidates (in order of probability):

-Lews Therin (living through Rand) or Rand (becoming resurrected)

-one of the resurrected male Forsaken (body dead, soul lives)

-some male Telaranrhiod resident (dead to the world, alive in Telaranrhiod)

-some male which turned to the Shadow or which was forced to the Shadow (like dead to the Light side, like alive in the Dark side)

-some male which was captured by Machin Shin (soul like dead, body still living)

 

Future teetering on edge of a blade, maybe relating to Light-sided characters confronting servants of the Shadow (likely Forsaken) or Rand confronting the Dark One at Tarmon Gaidon.

 

[Eht Slat Meit]

Personally, I'm inclined to think that this refers to the death of the Dragon, which is Rand and not Rand at the same time. It seems to fit with the motif of The Last Battle, which is clearly not the end of all battles. If it's THE last battle, I'm guessing that refers to the last battle between the Dark One and the Dragon, quite possibly leading to the deaths of both.

[mellojoe]

Brigette is dead yet lives, kinda. Could this be how Rand lives. By the way when did it happen to Brigette? Books 4-6 by any chance?

Yes, by this time Biritte is in the real world.

 

It happened in book 5, I believe.  While the girls were traveling with the circus (menagerie), before they remember the name Salidar.

[Phariah]

3 ina boat i think refers to Rand-Avi-Elayne

SG was an island before the DO moved in an i think will revert to one after the battle. Rand w/ use Callandor linked w/ Avi and Elayne.

[mb]

3 ina boat i think refers to Rand-Avi-Elayne

The 'and' directly after to me implies a 4th is also involved.

'in boat' indicates to me that the 3 would experience the same situation; what the situation would be is anybody's guess right now.

 

[Phariah]

3 ina boat i think refers to Rand-Avi-Elayne

The 'and' directly after to me implies a 4th is also involved.

'in boat' indicates to me that the 3 would experience the same situation; what the situation would be is anybody's guess right now.

 

'in a boat' i dont think is a metaphor but actual vision of them in a boat.

 

ya but in support of the only 3 plp in a boat is a dream by egwene and /or Min (i forget atm and will  check for the actual vision/ dream), in which she sees 2 women in a boat w/ a man laying in it w/ them. so "and" is a referance to one of them in the boat. which is Rand. the other 2 being Avi and Elayne imo.

[imBored]

When Rand first met Min, one of the visions that she said she didn't understand about him was a vision of 3 women in a boat with him in a coffin.... Sounds similer, eh?  :D

[mb]

ya but in support of the only 3 plp in a boat is a dream by egwene and /or Min (i forget atm and will  check for the actual vision/ dream), in which she sees 2 women in a boat w/ a man laying in it w/ them. so "and" is a referance to one of them in the boat. which is Rand. the other 2 being Avi and Elayne imo.

It was a Dream, but not Egwene's; a couple of Wise One Dreamwalkers.

The Dream has Rand and 3 women, not Rand and 2 women.

 

Whether Foretelling and Dream are metaphorical or literal, that is anybody's guess right now.

 

[Hunter]

Brigette is dead yet lives, kinda. Could this be how Rand lives. By the way when did it happen to Brigette? Books 4-6 by any chance?

 

This is actually an ingenious idea. Rand dies, gets scooped up by the wheel, and then they visit him in TAR? Or maybe rip him out and rebond him?

 

Assuming this truly is THE last battle, there would be no need of TAR Dragon Reborn anyways.

[Paerish Swar]

Foretellings are tricky, tricky, tricky.

 

Suddenly Nicola spoke, sounding half-asleep.  "The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond.  Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives.  The great battle done, but the world not done with battle.  The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants.  The future teeters on the edge of a blade."

 

I want to reformat this foretelling a little bit to help explain a little thought I had.

 

What if I wrote this foretelling like this:

 

    "The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond.  Three on a boat, and he who is dead yet lives.  The great battle done, but the world not done with battle.  The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants. . .

    The future teeters on the edge of a blade!"

 

What if the final statement of the foretelling is actually describing the manner in which the prior four statements will come to pass?

 

Is the "blade" mentioned a figurative blade or a literal one?  I think it is a literal one, and Callandor is the most likely suspect.  I think it would be fair to say that the future might very well hinge on Rand's willingness to use Callandor, and the manner in which he uses it.  It has to have a purpose greater than just to be taken from the Stone of Tear as a sign of the Dragon's rebirth.  Rands fate seems to be intimately tied to Callandor; why else would the AoL Aes Sedai have gone to such lengths to make sure it would be around for the Dragon to access at the time of the Last Battle?

 

Here's how I interpret the first and the last part of the foretelling. . . 

 

For Rand to win the last battle, and to survive, he is going to have to use Callandor.  Callandor is the key!  The way that he is going to have to use it is with Elayne and Aviendha linking with him, and Min is going to be the one to figure out how they will be able to use Callandor to seal the Bore.

 

The future teeters on the edge of a blade.

 

Will Rand have the wisdom to use Callandor in the manner in which it was intended?

 

[FarShainMael]

Brigette is dead yet lives, kinda. Could this be how Rand lives. By the way when did it happen to Brigette? Books 4-6 by any chance?

 

This is actually an ingenious idea. Rand dies, gets scooped up by the wheel, and then they visit him in TAR? Or maybe rip him out and rebond him?

 

It was in TFoH (book 5), ch 34/35, but I like this idea as well.

 

 

[imBored]

Brigette is dead yet lives, kinda. Could this be how Rand lives. By the way when did it happen to Brigette? Books 4-6 by any chance?

 

I like the idea, but I can't believe its true. When Rand first met Min, she had a vision of 3 women on a boat with him in a coffin. If he was pulled from the wheel, he wouldn't be in a coffin.

[imBored]

For Rand to win the last battle, and to survive, he is going to have to use Callandor.  Callandor is the key!  The way that he is going to have to use it is with Elayne and Aviendha linking with him, and Min is going to be the one to figure out how they will be able to use Callandor to seal the Bore.

 

I don't think Rand will be linked with Elayne and Aviendha. In TGS, Min found a part of the prophecies that said he would use callandor and, "the three shall be one." (from memory, not straight from the book, so I could be wrong). Also, Alivia is supposed to "help Rand die." So I think Alivia will be in the circle with him, because (IMO) he will die destroying/sealing/trapping/whatevering the dark one. So I think that Rand, Alivia, and (wait for it) Moridin/Ishamael will be in a circle.

 

Reason for Moridin? Well, "the three shall be one" could be the 3 powers, TP, saidin, and saidar. And we know from the black ajah there is a way to force someone into a circle... And if the TP was used as a sort of "shield" in the weave, saidar and saidin wouldn't be tainted.

 

Well theres my 2 cents, but I pretty much agreed with everything else you said. Nice theory  ;D

[Panchi]

I think the lion's sword means Elayne, the dedicated spear Avi and she who sees beyond Min. These three could be with Rand on a boat after Rand and DO's fight. IT could that everyone thought Rand and DO dead but  they are still living like what happened with Moiraine. Tarmon Gai'don has ended but Rand and DO are still living and fighting and future is on the edge of a blade because whoever will win that fight would decide the future of the world.

[Hunter]

Brigette is dead yet lives, kinda. Could this be how Rand lives. By the way when did it happen to Brigette? Books 4-6 by any chance?

 

I like the idea, but I can't believe its true. When Rand first met Min, she had a vision of 3 women on a boat with him in a coffin. If he was pulled from the wheel, he wouldn't be in a coffin.

 

Of course he would be, when he dies. The coffin is figurative, not literal. So it's saying he will die, and they will mourn him, but he will live again if the Finn are right.

[Majsju]

Brigette is dead yet lives, kinda. Could this be how Rand lives. By the way when did it happen to Brigette? Books 4-6 by any chance?

 

I like the idea, but I can't believe its true. When Rand first met Min, she had a vision of 3 women on a boat with him in a coffin. If he was pulled from the wheel, he wouldn't be in a coffin.

 

Because I like nitpicking... ;D

Min saw Rand on a funeral bier, not in a coffin. Rand and three women on a boat is a dream both Melaine and Bair had, nothing was mentioned of Rand being dead/dying in that dream, though Arthurian myths gives us some hints.

 

The part of Arthurian legend that we see echoes of here is when Arthur lies on his deathbed, seriously wounded. He is taken to Avalon on a boat, followed by three women, in order to wait there until he is needed again. In most versions of the legend, this happens at a time when it is impossible to reach Avalon without assistance.

 

Now, lets view that through our WOT-glasses...A Hero waiting in a place impossible to reach by normal means, until the time he is needed again. That sounds quite familiar...

[mellojoe]

The part of Arthurian legend that we see echoes of here is when Arthur lies on his deathbed, seriously wounded. He is taken to Avalon on a boat, followed by three women, in order to wait there until he is needed again. In most versions of the legend, this happens at a time when it is impossible to reach Avalon without assistance.

 

Now, lets view that through our WOT-glasses...A Hero waiting in a place impossible to reach by normal means, until the time he is needed again. That sounds quite familiar...

Excellent point!  You sir win four cookies and three internets.

 

I love this connection, and I look forward to the last books to see how much this comes true.

[mb]

When Rand first met Min, she had a vision of 3 women on a boat with him in a coffin.

Actually, that Viewing was 3 women and a funeral brier; there was no boat in that Viewing nor in any of Min's Viewings.