And the Eye of The World was important how?

[MikeRiley]

The Eye of the World might have served its purpose already, but we don't know what it is. From Robert Jordan's answer we know something of why Aginor was there, but remember that Aginor and Balthamel were both sealed away in Shayol Ghul when all the clues were being passed around by Ishamael making sure the reborn Dragon showed up there. I think the real question is what did Ishamael himself intend? He didn't even go there, he was content to let the recently released two enter instead.

 

I think it was a diversion and a plan gone wrong. Maybe the Dragon's presence was required for Saidin to be tapped so that the Horn of Valere could be obtained. In The Great Hunt, the attack on Fal Dara Keep had a dual purpose of freeing Fain and stealing the Horn of Valere. Had Fain been freed first it would be unlikely they could also get to the treasury as well, and he did not have full control over the forces that freed him. So somebody else wanted the Horn. Perhaps that was just Lanfear as we know she was in the Keep about that time and was mentioned in the Dark Prophecy written on the dungeon walls. Shortly after in the book we see Ishamael and Lanfear both visiting Rand in the other world, clearly working together (both had the same goal - make Rand touch Saidin.)

 

Lanfear also wanted Rand to seek glory. Ishamael tempts him with this as well. It might have been believed that once the Horn of Valere was discovered, the Dragon would sound it and attempt to end things. Had he done so at that time, the Light's Champion would have failed. "Let he who sounds me think not of glory, but only of salvation." This could be considered an alternate prophecy, almost. "When this happens, good bye."

 

Assuming it wasn't known the Horn of Valere was there, blinding the Eye of the World - put it out. Remove the pool of Saidin and what's left? The chest containing the Horn of Valere, the Dragon Banner, and a broken Seal on the Dark One's prison. They could not have known that particular seal was broken, and might not have known it was even there. It could be that they knew <i>something</i> of great importance was hidden there and warded against being taken without the Dragon present, much the same way it was with the plan for stealing Callandor later on. The simple fact that Aes Sedai committed suicide to make that much of Saidin pure would suggest something was placed there. Why make it pure? We have Robert Jordan's reasoning for Aginor being there as a suggestion: Without the taint, maybe the Dark One couldn't see it?

[rubbernilly]

 

 

Are any of your questions serious?

 

Yes, and apparently you didn't understand any of them.

 

I see. You're looking for a pissing match.

 

My questions *were* serious. If you'd understood that, you wouldn't have asked yours in the first place, nor written the above.

 

 

Everything that happens at the end of Eye of the World is in accordance with the rest of the series.

 

Go ahead and state opinion as fact. Give it the good ol' declarative heave-ho. That helps.

 

 

Did he know that he would later rule out someone being able to heal themselves?

 

Considering Aginor doesn't heal himself, yes I'm sure he did.

 

 

Yeah, I'll admit this one was a bit tongue in cheek. By this point in the book we've already seen Moiraine unable to heal herself. Of course, that doesn't let RJ off the hook. What we have, instead of Aginor healing himself, is a one-off phenomena, unsupported by anything that follows it. And, no, slowed-aging doesn't qualify as reinforcing the mechanic. This is new flesh. Healing. Regeneration.

 

We also have, IMO, RJ trying hard to convince the reader that this is the DO breaking free, giving Aginor new flesh. Trying, before tGH had been written, to come to an artificial conclusion in case the book didn't sell well enough to warrant a follow-up.

 

 

Are you aware of the wide-spread confusion about this scene?

 

Yes I've been on these boards for almost 10 years. But most of the confusion comes from people rejecting the answers to back up their bogus theories that make far less sense.

 

 

The question was rhetorical, but at least it gave you a chance for an insult.

 

...except, I don't have theories about the end, bogus or otherwise, outside of speculation about why RJ did what he did.

 

 

I’ve read the series about 8 times, start to finish, and tEotW about 14.

 

Bravo. Apparently all that reading didn't help your understanding.

 

And another insult. Really, I don't know what I did to get under your skin except to question the Creator RJ, but you've mixed up how much you matter to you with how much you matter to me.

 

...unless you'd like to start over and keep this civil.

 

 

Look, you have Moiraine, moments before, telling Rand that because the Eye is here (where they are), this is where the DO will strike, and someone has to be there to stop him.

 

The Dark One is gaining extraordinary power at this point in the series. Ba'alzamon has assumed his place and is doing everything in his power to help the Dark One break free. What Rand does at the end of this book gives a decisive blow to the DO crippling him for the next 4 books.

 

“Crippling” is a stretch. Still, that misses the point. The Eye was set up throughout that first book as a destination. Instead, when we finally see it, it’s barely a notable landmark.

 

 

Then you have Aginor coming in, saying that the DO will soon be free and will give them new flesh.

 

Mhmm.

 

 

... and... so... when Aginor gets new flesh, what is the first time reader supposed to think? (Especially one reading before tGH had been published.) ...that... the... DO is giving him flesh. Uh, oh. The DO is breaking free.

 

Alternately, if* Aginor is able to give himself “new” flesh, then why say what he did about the DO giving him new flesh? Like I said, the motivations of the Forsaken in this scene are just off.

 

*I am not disputing that is what is happening; RJ said it, so that is the explanation. I am extending from that point.

 

 

It’s pretty clear that RJ wants the reader to think that this is the “thing”… the Last Battle … the significance of the Dragon… whatever. From the re-read/blog hosted on Tor:

 

*snipped*

 

 

Are you quoting Leigh Butler because you think she's a credible source? Her opinion of this book outweighs RJ's?

 

No, and no. I am quoting her because she wrote what I wanted to say, and I didn’t feel like wasting my time retyping it.

 

Also, you seem to have the idea that I am out to prove RJ wrong (in that you assume I want to set up Butler as a better source than RJ). I am doing nothing of the kind. However, I *am* saying that some of RJ’s explanations are less than satisfactory.

 

 

The Eye of the World is set up a pool of pure Saidin that the Dark One will have his Forsaken use to regain their former powers, and thereby being the strongest Aes Sedai in the world, cause mass chaos while he breaks free.

 

What powers had they lost that they needed to regain? They didn’t need the Eye to cause chaos. Look what they have done in the books since the Eye was emptied.

 

 

RJ wanted/needed the end of this book to be something of a conclusion. The DO is striking at the Eye, as Moiraine warned. He is giving Aginor new flesh, as Aginor promised. This is *it*.

 

This is it. If Rand failed here the world would be doomed.

 

This is the Last Battle? I must have missed that. Then what has everybody been doing for the past 12 books? Oh, right. This wasn't the end-all that tEotW led us to believe. It is just a passing attraction.

 

 

• You can’t heal yourself so what was Aginor doing with the power?

 

As is explained in the book, Aginor is drawing on the Eye of the World, the pure Saidin, and this is rejuvenating him. He is not healing himself with the Power. There's no weave that he's using. He's simply drawing on the Eye.

 

An unsupported, otherwise unused mechanic.

 

Also, you say “pure,” but RJ has said that the difference between the saidin in the pool and saidin ought-else is that the DO can’t see you channel what he doesn’t filter for you. So what is Aginor doing here? Why the need to channel covertly to get himself new flesh, if that is the mechanic at work? Would the DO care that he regenerated? Why waste the one chance you get to step off-the-grid, so to speak, by doing something that the DO wouldn’t have cared about, anyway? Again, Aginor’s motivations are just off.

 

 

• He had access to untainted saidin, so what did he need this specific power for? (I know RJ’s answer about him being paranoid about the cords, but that is extra-textual and after the fact... it’s not a strong enough explanation given what we know of the mechanics of magic in WoT… not only that, but it isn’t a strong enough motivation for Aginor, especially when he doesn’t do anything with the Power that we can discern. Remember, he isn’t giving himself new flesh.)

 

Your point here confuses me. In your belief is Aginor "healing himself" or is the DO giving him "new flesh"? Aginor doesn't "do anything" with the Power because, oh right, he's killed. That sure points a damper on doing something.

 

My point is that because we know he isn’t actively healing himself, and he isn’t actively giving himself new flesh, what *is* he doing with the power? Why this power? If all he had to do was channel, he could have done that anywhere... and not have to contend with Rand ... and not have to defend himself from physical attacks... and not have to... oh yeah. Die. Death sure makes me think that he thought the Eye was pretty important, only I can’t see how -- not from the text nor from RJ.

 

 

Regardless of RJ's answering being "after the fact" it remains a valid point.

 

It is a valid explanation as far as canon. Whether that explanation survives a bit of scrutiny is a matter of opinion, and that’s where I’m debating.

 

 

Aginor is the second most powerful male Forsaken, and his personality is one of extreme privacy which he uses in creating creatures like the Trollocs. So Aginor's motivation in gaining the power from the Eye make perfect sense.

 

That completely does not follow, for the reasons I stated above.

 

 

• Aginor gets "new" flesh, even though the way we understand the DO being able to give someone "new flesh" is through recycling, as with Moridin, Cyndane, Osan'gar, and Aran'gar.

 

As explained the DO doesn't give him a new body, the Eye of the World rejuvenates his corpse like figure.

 

You must have missed the part right before these bullets where I say “in retrospect.” Looking back on this scene now that we know so much more, the only way that we’ve seen “new flesh” is through recycling. This is just another way to say that this mechanic (regeneration) is a one-off, which adds to the confusion.

 

 

• The Eye is apparently important, but never mentioned again.

 

That would be because it no longer exists and it's importance was already used. Whether what happened to it was the intended purpose is irrelevant since this is what happened to it. It's no longer important, but it was in book 1.

 

I said “apparently” important. You said “important.” There’s a huge gulf there. The very thing under question right now is just how important it was. The setup of the book would make you think it was very important. The delivery of this climax makes me think otherwise.

 

* * *

 

My problems with this scene boil down into 3 main points:

 

1) RJ seemed to be trying for a false ending, and because of that...

 

2) Aginor’s motivations are all wrong, and...

 

3) We have an unsupported mechanic (new flesh) to make us think the DO is breaking free

 

 

[bronnt]

The Eye was important because of the series of events it set in motion.

 

We know RJ wasn't trying for a false ending because he included stuff like the seals and the Horn, which were obviously part of the larger story arc that went beyond TEOTW.  He did desire some significant climax to bring closure to the first book, in order to make the story compelling, but he certainly didn't suddenly change his mind about where WoT was going.

 

What happens is that Rand is forced to recognize exactly what he is by the massive amount of saidin he channels at the Eye.  If the DO had blinded the Eye, Rand would never have channeled that much of the Power, would never have become the DR.  It's very circular, like the whole logic with Callandor was circular.

[Kadere]

Yeah, I'll admit this one was a bit tongue in cheek. By this point in the book we've already seen Moiraine unable to heal herself. Of course, that doesn't let RJ off the hook. What we have, instead of Aginor healing himself, is a one-off phenomena, unsupported by anything that follows it. And, no, slowed-aging doesn't qualify as reinforcing the mechanic. This is new flesh. Healing. Regeneration.

 

I guess you could call this a "one-off phenomena" but that's not really what it is. The drawing on the source of clean Saidin is giving him power and healing his wounds. Though we have nothing else to compare it to the idea behind drawing on an independent source of the power to gain power, and healing, makes sense in the context of the series and the book.

 

We also have, IMO, RJ trying hard to convince the reader that this is the DO breaking free, giving Aginor new flesh.

 

Only if the reader believes that Ba'alzamon is in fact the DO would this possibly be true. The cord coming from Aginor is connected to the Eye of the World. When Rand draws upon it he's filled with the Power, not with any influence of the DO. You keep harping on the idea that the DO must directly be giving Aginor "new flesh" but this never actually occurs. At no point during this is it even hinted that the DO has broken free.

 

...except, I don't have theories about the end, bogus or otherwise, outside of speculation about why RJ did what he did.

 

Well here's the root of your problem. You have no actual desire to understand what's happening in the book. You're just determined to believe that it doesn't make sense, which it does.

 

“Crippling” is a stretch. Still, that misses the point. The Eye was set up throughout that first book as a destination. Instead, when we finally see it, it’s barely a notable landmark.

 

Just because the end of the first book of a massive series didn't have the climatic battle you personally needed as a reader, doesn't mean that the Eye wasn't important to the book, the history of the world, and the future of the series.

 

... and... so... when Aginor gets new flesh, what is the first time reader supposed to think? (Especially one reading before tGH had been published.) ...that... the... DO is giving him flesh. Uh, oh. The DO is breaking free.

 

First time readers are supposed to be confused, but then as future books are released be able to put together the answers, plus use answers RJ gave at readings, signings, and on the web to put together the answers. If a first time reader actually believes the Dark One has granted him new flesh, that's fine, but it's still inaccurate.

 

Also, you seem to have the idea that I am out to prove RJ wrong (in that you assume I want to set up Butler as a better source than RJ). I am doing nothing of the kind. However, I *am* saying that some of RJ’s explanations are less than satisfactory.

 

RJ's explanations are satisfactory and answer what is happening in the scene and the motivations of the characters. I'm not sure how much he needs to spell out, but what he's said makes perfect sense to the scene when you think about it, and even if you don't think it does, it's still the right answer.

 

What powers had they lost that they needed to regain? They didn’t need the Eye to cause chaos. Look what they have done in the books since the Eye was emptied.

 

Specifically Aginor and Balthamel needed the Saidin from the Eye to regain their former power as they had been damaged during their time in the Bore. The rest of the Forsaken are fine, and don't need the Eye to cause Chaos, but Aginor and Balthamel do.

 

This is the Last Battle? I must have missed that. Then what has everybody been doing for the past 12 books? Oh, right. This wasn't the end-all that tEotW led us to believe. It is just a passing attraction.

 

If Rand, Mat, Perrin, Egwene, Nynaeve, Lan, Moiraine, and Loial all died at the Eye then that would have been the end of it. If Aginor and Balthamel had regained their power and not been defied by them then no one would have been in a state to stop them. Aginor would be the second most powerful Forsaken out there, besides Ishamael, creating more creatures and more chaos unopposed.

 

An unsupported, otherwise unused mechanic.

 

It's supported within TEotW. There's nothing else out there like the Eye so there's nothing else to compare it to.

 

Also, you say “pure,” but RJ has said that the difference between the saidin in the pool and saidin ought-else is that the DO can’t see you channel what he doesn’t filter for you. So what is Aginor doing here? Why the need to channel covertly to get himself new flesh, if that is the mechanic at work? Would the DO care that he regenerated? Why waste the one chance you get to step off-the-grid, so to speak, by doing something that the DO wouldn’t have cared about, anyway? Again, Aginor’s motivations are just off.

 

As explained Aginor is trying to get his own source of clean Saidin without the eye of the DO watching his every use. There's nothing else out there that would rejuvenate Aginor to his former glory that wouldn't come through the DO, if the DO was able to do it at all. If the DO wouldn't care about it, even better. Then Aginor can really go incognito. But the DO would likely care a lot since he likes to know what his Forsaken are up to. Otherwise he sends Shadar Haran after you or kills you.

 

My point is that because we know he isn’t actively healing himself, and he isn’t actively giving himself new flesh, what *is* he doing with the power? Why this power? If all he had to do was channel, he could have done that anywhere... and not have to contend with Rand ... and not have to defend himself from physical attacks... and not have to... oh yeah. Die. Death sure makes me think that he thought the Eye was pretty important, only I can’t see how -- not from the text nor from RJ.

 

He's drawing on his own source of the One Power in order to rejuvenate his body and gain his former power. It's not a matter of channeling. He's not channeling. He's drawing from an independent source that's not connected to the DO or the Wheel. He hunts Rand down to destroy him and when Rand draws upon the same source Aginor draws too much and kills himself. There is no physical attack against him.

 

It is a valid explanation as far as canon. Whether that explanation survives a bit of scrutiny is a matter of opinion, and that’s where I’m debating.

 

If you were debating this you'd have to have some kind of evidence, but all you're using is constant questions that lead to no answer of any kind.

 

That completely does not follow, for the reasons I stated above.

 

For reasons I and RJ stated it does follow.

 

You must have missed the part right before these bullets where I say “in retrospect.” Looking back on this scene now that we know so much more, the only way that we’ve seen “new flesh” is through recycling. This is just another way to say that this mechanic (regeneration) is a one-off, which adds to the confusion.

 

You're right that Aginor isn't being given a new body, he keeps his old body and regenerates it through drawing on an independent source. Looking back now that we know more, there's not much else in the books that adds to or takes away from this scene. It still works.

 

I said “apparently” important. You said “important.” There’s a huge gulf there. The very thing under question right now is just how important it was. The setup of the book would make you think it was very important. The delivery of this climax makes me think otherwise.

 

The set-up of the book is that if our heroes lost at the Eye then the Wheel was doomed. Which it would have been. Again, at this point in the series the DO is gaining a lot of strength. He has control of the seasons, his Forsaken are coming free, the seals are breaking, his forgers are making weapons for the Myrddraal, Shadar Haran is walking the Earth, the Blight is advancing on the Boarderlands, and the Dragon hasn't come forward to proclaim himself and make the world ready. By defeating the first of the Forsaken to come free, and defeat the DO at the Eye, they stop all of that and Spring comes to the world, and the DO doesn't gain that kind of control again until TFoH. It's basically a preemptive strike to buy the Dragon time. It's not the MOST IMPORTANT EVENT EVER because this is only book one in a very long series, but it is important enough to be included in the series and base the first book around.

 

1) RJ seemed to be trying for a false ending, and because of that...

 

It's more like he's trying to write a satisfactory ending to his first book to keep readers engaged enough to continue reading.

 

2) Aginor’s motivations are all wrong, and...

 

Aginor's motivations make perfect sense to his character.

 

3) We have an unsupported mechanic (new flesh) to make us think the DO is breaking free

 

We have an independent source of the One Power returning power to a person, which is not contributed to the DO or his breaking free. However, the DO is in fact breaking free, as the seal is broken, but this is not contributed to Aginor's plan or his drawing on the Eye.

[NetSlider]

I think the Eye was important as it showed Rand that saidin can be cleansed. Also the story from the Green Man helped him to decide how to cleanse the source. But than again, this is kind of a side note.

[balefireruinssteaks]

The Eye was mostly important because it made it as the title of the first book.

 

Can you imagine The Eye of the World with no Eye at all?  haha.  Obviously it had to be there or there wouldn't have been a title except "Over the Two Rivers and Through the Woods, to Moiraine Sedai's House We Go" and that is just entirely too long to fit on one book.

[rubbernilly]

Very funny, balefire. :D

 

Now Kadere, let's start again, and take this in small steps... because I'm not above you explaining something to me that I don't understand. We're just getting bogged down and distracted from making progress on main points.

 

Let me lay this much down:

Aginor is using the Eye. Yes? ("Using" as in, "depleting")

Reasoning:

1) The way he reacts to Rand doing exactly what he himself is doing. He calls it, "Mine." He doesn't want Rand to use it out from under him.

2) He draws so much of it he burns himself up.

 

Do you agree with that much?

[Kadere]

Aginor is drawing on the Eye, when Rand does the same he retaliates by drawing too much and burns himself up. Yes.

[rubbernilly]

OK, next...

 

Channeling saidin is regenerating Aginor... giving him "new" flesh.

 

Agreed?

[MikeRiley]

Perhaps that's akin to the slowed aging from use of the Power. Once sealed away they could not use the Power and so aged greatly. When they began to draw on it again, that changed. I can't see it being such a drastic change though, they should have just dropped dead on being freed. Since they didn't I guess it could be said channeling the power would rejuvenate their bodies to that point.

 

When I first read the book, I thought he was taking the soul from Moiraine and that was why he was getting younger.

[Kadere]

OK, next...

 

Channeling saidin is regenerating Aginor... giving him "new" flesh.

 

Agreed?

 

No, not exactly. Aginor is drawing on the clean Saidin from the Eye and this is giving him power and restoring his body to it's original state when it went into the Bore.

[Myyrth]

God I love forum hostility!  :-*

 

Anywho.  At least with Aginor healing himself, is not perhaps possible that due to the fact that the source of Saidin isn't coming from within but rather coming from an outside source one would be able to heal oneself with it.  For example perhaps utilizing the Eye one could fly, or do all sort of stuff typically forbidden when one is channeling personally.

 

The Eye seems to serve as a remote access for this source of pure Saidin, it therefore seems plausible to me that one could heal oneself with the power drawn from it as it is not arising from within oneself.

 

[RescueMoraine]

I usually just look the other way when certain things related to "majic" don't make sense in a fantasy story.  In the WoT world one can channel air to suspend someone else in the air and immobilize them, but can't channel air to suspend themselves?  This makes no sense at all to me, but I just figured RJ just didn't want people flying around all over the place like vampires or healing themselves like D&D.  He wanted certain resrictions in place to make his world more unique.  Authors privelege.

 

The Eye seemed a bit less significant to me than I had intially assumed, but then again that's happened a lot in this series and is one of the things I've enjoyed about it.  Conventions get shattered.  Assumptions get exposed.  I remember early on earnestly hoping our heros made it to the shining walls of Tar Valon where they would be "safe", then later realizing how lucky they were to have been able to get out of there with their skins.  Turns out that place was a Black Ajah/Forsaken cess pool, crippled by ego and tradition. 

 

The Eye is a significant event, but not for reasons the reader is likely to assume or understand at the time which can make it a bit anti-climatic.

[J-Rad]

It would be interesting if the Eye was more than just a pool, but a sort of filter that actively drew saidin into itself, purified it, and left it available for use.

Or better yet, could it possibly be a well with some kind of filter?  That could possibly explain why Aginor would want it so badly, and it supports RJ's answer.  Although personally I doubt it, but it would be pretty cool.

 

Other than that my thoughts have already been stated.  Basically, that the eye was started Rand of on his journey of being the Dragon Reborn and that it showed him that saidin could be cleansed.

[rubbernilly]

Channeling saidin is regenerating Aginor... giving him "new" flesh.

 

No, not exactly. Aginor is drawing on the clean Saidin from the Eye and this is giving him power and restoring his body to it's original state when it went into the Bore.

 

OK, no qualms about your clarification of 'restoring' him to his 'original state.' Though that can confidently be called regeneration, I understand the confusion (real or apparent) that could lead to.

 

But what 'power' had he lost? Are you claiming he was weaker in the OP?

 

(I will hold off on presenting the next item in my progression until I understand what you mean here.)

[Saguin Venart]

Maybe it wasn't that important, maybe it just needed a logical stopping point for the first book...Kind of like it wasn't important for us to know the Shienarans supported Rand at the end of book 2, Sometimes you need to end on a good closing.

[Kadere]

OK, no qualms about your clarification of 'restoring' him to his 'original state.' Though that can confidently be called regeneration, I understand the confusion (real or apparent) that could lead to.

 

But what 'power' had he lost? Are you claiming he was weaker in the OP?

 

(I will hold off on presenting the next item in my progression until I understand what you mean here.)

 

Possibly. He states that he's been long without the Power and looks longingly towards the Eye. It's not really clear if he gets stronger after being fully regenerated or not. I'd lean towards not since a person doesn't really ever lose their strength in the power. But I would say that drawing on the Eye gives him more energy and bodily strength.

[MikeRiley]

It would be interesting if the Eye was more than just a pool, but a sort of filter that actively drew saidin into itself, purified it, and left it available for use.

Or better yet, could it possibly be a well with some kind of filter?  That could possibly explain why Aginor would want it so badly, and it supports RJ's answer.  Although personally I doubt it, but it would be pretty cool.

 

I believe it was a pool of the power that would have to be replenished much the same way a well would, but once replenished it would be tainted. I might be wrong here, but I remember reading that the power at the Eye of the World was made clean by the Aes Sedai drawing the taint into themselves, which is what killed them all. They died to make it pure, so it couldn't be an actual filter.

[rubbernilly]

But what 'power' had he lost? Are you claiming he was weaker in the OP?

 

Possibly.... I'd lean towards not since a person doesn't really ever lose their strength in the power. But I would say that drawing on the Eye gives him more energy and bodily strength.

 

I would also say 'not.' There is no mechanic we've seen that can slightly reduce someone's strength (only stilling/gentling which is an all or nothing thing). Not only that, but we see him channeling before he ever gets near the Eye. So he is only being restored physically... which leads me to my next point:

 

You used 'pure' before to describe the saidin in the Eye. We know from RJ that the difference between the saidin in the Eye and the saidin Aginor already had access to (through his DO-filter) was that the DO would not know if Aginor channeled the saidin in the Eye.

 

Agreed?

[Suttree]

If you are done reciting "The Second Coming"  ::) None of the above about what happened at teoftw even really matters. RJ was answered a question about Aginor's motives and clearly answered it. I still can't get past how that isn't good enough for everyone. It really doesn't matter how RJ got to that point...we are being told a story that he created. Saying you don't buy it or it logically can't be true just makes you sound like the Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons.

[Kadere]

You used 'pure' before to describe the saidin in the Eye. We know from RJ that the difference between the saidin in the Eye and the saidin Aginor already had access to (through his DO-filter) was that the DO would not know if Aginor channeled the saidin in the Eye.

 

Agreed?

 

When I say "pure" I mean that it doesn't contain the Taint. The only way anyone could channel clean Saidin, or "pure" Saidin without the Taint, would be to use the Saidin in the Eye of the World, or to use the DO's filter. By using the Saidin in the Eye to channel instead of the DO's filter, Aginor doesn't need that connection to the Dark One. Aginor's smart enough to know that that filter has more benefit to the DO then it does for him. The Dark One will be using that connection to monitor his Forsaken. So if he can draw and channel clean Saidin without being monitored by the Dark One he wants that freedom to do what he wants.

[rubbernilly]

So if he can draw and channel clean Saidin without being monitored by the Dark One he wants that freedom to do what he wants.

 

But the bottom line is that the saidin in the Eye is no different than the filtered saidin available to male Forsaken except for that the DO knows when you channel through his filter and what you are doing with the power. Right?

[Kadere]

Yes.

[rubbernilly]

OK, so... if A then B, AND if B then C... then, if A then C.

 

1) Aginor is regenerated/reinvigorated, channeling saidin from the Eye.

2) The saidin in the Eye is different from commonly available saidin (to the Forsaken) only in what the DO knows.

 

Therefore...

 

Aginor could have been rejuvenated by channeling cord-filtered* saidin.

 

Correct?

 

 

*doesn't that sound like a beer commercial? like the DO is putting out advertisements:

"Come to the Mountains of Dhoom for the cord-filtered taste of saidin."

[Kadere]

Possibly, there really isn't enough information to draw that conclusion, but it still doesn't matter. If Aginor could have drawn Saidin from the True Source through the Dark One's filter and regenerated his body, that's fine, but it wouldn't have freed him from the Dark One's manipulations. Both the Saidin Aginor gets from the Eye and the Saidin he gets from the Dark One are both Saidin, true, but the Saidin in the Eye is not connected to the same Source that the Dark One's Saidin is from. By drawing the Saidin from the Eye Aginor no longer needs to draw Saidin through the filter or from the True Source. This enables him to have clean, untainted, Saidin for his own personal use, which none of the other Forsaken can use. All the other Forsaken will be forced to used the Dark One's filter and have him watch their every move, while Aginor will have an edge. If he'd just done it with the Dark One's filter then the Dark One would know about it, and still be able to monitor him, which he doesn't want.