Aviendha should have a whole bunch of Toh

[ROB_88]

i'm writing this now from memory so i may or may not be completely wrong.

 

but after the girls uses the Bowl of Winds and are forced to escape via Gateway, there is a huge fight with the Seanchan.

IIRC at this time Aviendha is still wearing Ebou Dari clothes and therefore she has no Shoufa.

her face is not hidden, a fact that would cause a massive amount of Toh, but it hasn't come up once, neither in conversation or even a quick mention of how she deals with it.

 

i would love if someone found evidence that her face is concealed, but i can't find any.

i don't wanna say Jordan messed up but it's as close as i'm gonna get with this

[mb]

I do not remember what Aviendha was wearing.

Though from checking the chapter summaries at Encyclopaedia, the order of events are right.

 

[somathus]

I don't think Wise Ones or their apprentices don the veil

[Muad Cheade]

Somathus has the right of it.

[Luckers]

Not quite--Aviendha uses her shawl to cover her face when she fights in tSR, and the Aiel reprimand Couladin for trying to kill with his face bare to the world, so it would seem that she should indeed have Toh.

 

On the other hand maybe she was merely trying to scare them away from the Gateway.  :D

[ed2funy]

But she is a Wise One apprentice.

She only veiled because she is still a Maiden at heart.

She is technically not supposed to fight, but we have seen that change.

The Wise Ones didn't veil at Duami's Wells.

[Luckers]

It doesn't matter--when the Aiel kill the veil themselves. It is not just the algai'd'siswei that do this, we've seen it even when non-spearfighters have taken up the spear.

 

You don't kill with your face bare to the world, no matter who you are.

[ed2funy]

Can anyone find a quote...

I am pretty sure when the Wise Ones fought, they did not veil.

Times change for the Aiel. Channelers actually fight.

There is no precedent for them veiling.

[Nightstrike]

Wise ones do not take part in battle. Yet they did. One break with custom... According to the law, they are not to be harmed or threatened. Maybe jie'toh would allow wise ones to defend themselves against those who do not follow the rules?

 

 

[Kadere]

Can anyone find a quote of Aviendha fighting or killing anyone during that section? Cause sure the gateway explosion killed a bunch, but that was Elayne. I don't remember Aviendha killing anybody.

[ed2funy]

She threw a lot of fireballs as long as she could. In the beginning, she threw em fast and steady.

I am sure she killed people.

But I don't think she owes Toh to anyone (including herself).

[Muad Cheade]

It doesn't matter--when the Aiel kill the veil themselves. It is not just the algai'd'siswei that do this, we've seen it even when non-spearfighters have taken up the spear.

Non-spearfighters, yes. Wise Ones, no.

 

Not quite--Aviendha uses her shawl to cover her face when she fights in tSR, and the Aiel reprimand Couladin for trying to kill with his face bare to the world, so it would seem that she should indeed have Toh.

She had just been made a Wise One apprentice and was resisting her new appointment nd still thought of herself as a maiden. Afterward, she was reprimanded bout her picking up a spear and veiling herself.

 

Wise Ones are not supposed to be involved in warfare, ergo they did not need to be veiled. After the Battle of Dumai's Wells, we still see no mention of them using veils. Wise Ones now fight, but they still follow the tradition of not wearing veils.

[Luckers]

Quote from: Luckers on Today at 10:08:00 PM

It doesn't matter--when the Aiel kill the veil themselves. It is not just the algai'd'siswei that do this, we've seen it even when non-spearfighters have taken up the spear.

 

 

Non-spearfighters, yes. Wise Ones, no.

 

Only because they arn't supposed to fight. But when any Aiel kill they are supposed to Veil their face.

[ed2funy]

But that is the thing.

So much has changed regarding that.

 

Wise Ones never fought before. They could walk through a battle and still talk to another Wise One even if their septs had a blood feud.

 

Now, we not only see Wise Ones fighting (and using the Power, not a spear), but fighting other Wise Ones and other Aiel.

 

Anyone remember when Perrin rescues Faile. They didn't fight did they?

[Sharaman]

I don't think Avi's ever thought about at all in all her PoVs since TPoD. Given the way she agonises over toh, it's unlikely that it's such a big deal. At Alcair'dal, Rhuarc refused to veil the Taardad when facing off, "No Honour to the Shaido!"

Avi's attitude to the Seanchan could be the same as her clan chief's attitude to the Shaido.

 

[Kaznen]

Rhurac's "no honor to the Shaido" was "they are not worth fighting."  It could be argued that when the fighting started going down in tPoD Avi just tucked a scarf over her face as veil.  Elyane was busy at the time and Avi would do something like that so she didn't see a reason to think about Avi being vieled.

[OptimusPrime]

Interesting topic this, well done for the observation Rob.

[ROB_88]

Interesting topic this, well done for the observation Rob.

 

thank you. i try to do my best to excplore every corner.

in the next topic i'm gonna find out what kind of underwear they use ;D