Healing Stilling

[Talmanes]

Just a thought, I have always wondered what would happen if you bridged the gap that results from stilling/gentling on a person who can't channel? Would they now be able to channel? Or would they not have the gap at all? Did RJ ever say anything about this? Thoughts anyone?

[mb]

Just a thought, I have always wondered what would happen if you bridged the gap that results from stilling/gentling on a person who can't channel? Would they now be able to channel? Or would they not have the gap at all? Did RJ ever say anything about this? Thoughts anyone?

This was not tested in books 1 through 11.  Not sure if it was tested in 12.  If not tested in book 12, it might be tested book 13 or 14.

As far as I'm aware, Robert Jordan did not comment on this.

 

[Talmanes]

Yeah I was pretty sure that he never said anything about it I just have wondered about it for a long time, ever since stilling was first healed, and was wondering what other people thought about it. Does anyone else have an opinion? I mean think of the possibilities if it worked. You could make an unlimited supply of Aes Sedai and Asha'man!

[mb]

We would know when it is tested.

 

Rand/Flinn/Nynaeve might have the best chance for succeeding.

 

[Mr Ares]

When Nynaeve Healed Logain, Siuan and Leane, she likened it to something cut. I doubt this would be present in people who can't channel.

[Vulgir]

When Nynaeve Healed Logain, Siuan and Leane, she likened it to something cut. I doubt this would be present in people who can't channel.

 

exactly like wiring a lightbulb with a battery, all Nynaeve did is replace the wire, if there was never a battery, there wouldnt be any light.

[kennedy798]

I agree, I doubt that the connection to the TS could be healed in non channelers as it wasn't their to begin with.

[Jemlin]

I doubt it for a few reasons:

 

1. RJ has said the ability to channel is connected with the soul, and therefore, is present in each life, even if its not necessarily a Spark.

 

2. If your soul does not have the ability to channel, meaning in this current timeline you are not a learner or sparker, then they can not create something that doesn't exist.

 

Nynaeve healed something that was cut and damaged, but something has to exist ahead of time to be cut. So, I don't see how she can "heal" something that doesn't exist.  Maybe you are leaning more towards the idea of creating a connection between a person and the source, but I think that woudl require a better knowledge of how the soul becomes connected/built with the ability to channel theSource, and how that would be artificially created.

 

[mb]

Since severing can be Healed, there might be a chance with burned-out.

If burned-out can be Healed, creating the ability to channel might have a chance.

 

I suggest that we do not rule out the possibly entirely until some character tests it.

 

[ed2funy]

Mr. ares is right. they were severed. they were healed. u cannot heal what is not there.

 

[Talmanes]

When Nynaeve healed Siuan and Leane though there was just an empty space that needed to be bridged. It probably wouldn't be possible to make that connection in someone who couldn't channel previously, we don't know enough specifically about how the source works to completely rule out the possibility of making that connection. The connection could be what gives you the ability to channel in the first place. All people could have that space there and just only some have the natural connection to the source. A down point though is that when you are stilled you still sense the source meaning you still have some association with the source. This however could be a result of being trained to be aware of the source, which is not the same as using it. People who can't channel are never trained how to be aware of the source. It could just be that you have to actually use the source to become always aware of it, but those who are untrained channel before they are aware of it. Although I can't believe I am making this reference, a few years ago I read the Artemis Fowl series by Eoin Colfer(I believe that is how it is spelled), and there was a part where the human is basically being transported through time with a fairy (and possibly others I can't remember) and her the fairy's magic is floating through time with them, and the human takes some into him. It fills a part in his brain that was already there, but had previously been empty. The point is there was a possibility of humans having magic it just wasn't there and/or they don't have access. It could be this way with people in the WoT, where all people theoretically could use the source they just have to have the connection made so they have access.

[ed2funy]

But, what about all the women who go to the Tower and try and learn for weeks if not months.

 

They would have been able to sense the Source if they could by that time.

 

 

P.S. I am not totally discrediting the theory. It has potential. I just believe it is highly doubtful.

[Talmanes]

But, what about all the women who go to the Tower and try and learn for weeks if not months.

 

They would have been able to sense the Source if they could by that time.

 

 

P.S. I am not totally discrediting the theory. It has potential. I just believe it is highly doubtful.

They can't channel initially if they don't have the connection initially.

 

Oh and I know this is highly unlikely and will most likely never even be considered by anyone in the books, but there is some merit to the theory and honestly I just think it would be kinda cool if it happened.

[ed2funy]

To tell you the truth, it would be cool...

 

Then, channeling would never "disappear" from the world...

People would remember that the TP is bad!

[mb]

Mr. ares is right. they were severed. they were healed. u cannot heal what is not there.

I take you mean 'what was never there' instead of 'what is not there'.

'what is not there' can indicate that the thing was removed; Healing restores it.  In current case, the ability to channel was removed and Healing restored the ability to channel.  Another example: A character gets a gash in the skin, the skin is not there, Healing restores the skin.

 

If your comment is in response to my post directly above, I did not specify by which method it would be done.

If not by the form of Healing that Healed severing, perhaps by some other method.

 

[Auld Manriva]

The channeling appears to be a genetic recessive and because of three thousand years of Aes Sedai meddling and ignorance is apparently being bred out of the population. If the structure isn't there to begin with I see no way "healing" could give a person the ability.

 

PLUS, each soul who is able to channel retains that ability in their next "go round" or so it states in the BWB.

[ed2funy]

I don't think Channeling has been culled out of the population.

 

I think more people just have the ability to learn, and not the spark anymore.

 

When someone has the spark, it is easier to find them.

Nowadays, more and more people have the ability to learn it.

 

Like in the TR, I believe Alanna and Verin (?) found a whole bunch of girls with really high potential, but only like 2 had the spark.

AND, they left some that were too young.

 

Anyways, just my thoughts...

:)

[CowboyNinjaD]

This is a little different, but I've wondered what would happen if a man tried to re-heal Siuan and Leane.

 

Damer Flinn healed the Aes Saedi severed at Dumais Wells back to full strength and Nynaeve did the same for Logain. After Nynaeve healed Siuan and Leane, they kept asking her to try again to see if she could heal them all the way, but Nynaeve said there was nothing else to heal and that it was healed as much as it could be. This implies that she reconnected them to the Source in an imperfect way.

 

So I'm wondering, did Nynaeve unknowingly screw Siuan and Leane over, making it impossible for a male channeler to finish the job? Or is there still a little something left to heal that a male could find but a female couldn't? Are Siuan and Leane going to be back up to full strength for the Last Battle?

[Luckers]

RJ stated that it takes someone of the opposite sex to heal a severed person to their full strength.

[Auld Manriva]

RJ stated that it takes someone of the opposite sex to heal a severed person to their full strength.

 

Just so. That seemed pretty obvious to me from reading. Plus it's kinda like humans and hormones, each gender in order to function proper must have a bit o' the other's Main hormone. I'm just wondering when they're all gonna realize it and it's implications for other things

 

I don't think Channeling has been culled out of the population.

 

I think more people just have the ability to learn, and not the spark anymore.

 

When someone has the spark, it is easier to find them.

Nowadays, more and more people have the ability to learn it.

 

Like in the TR, I believe Alanna and Verin (?) found a whole bunch of girls with really high potential, but only like 2 had the spark.

AND, they left some that were too young.

 

Anyways, just my thoughts...

:)

 

It's being culled out, not has been, by gentling men who can channel for thousands of years they're unknowingly deleting the genetic trait. Manetheren (The Two Rivers Region) is a deeper pool than most regions due to the absence of a lot of AS interference over the centuries, AND a relatively isolated gene pool as well. Not as many "outcrosses" from outside the area inter-marriage. It's OLD BLOOD,and very valuable insofar as channeling is concerned, much in the same way as we today look for "Old Stock" of grains and such and squirrel them away in case of future need.

 

Aes Sedai also don't tend to bear offspring, so they also are contributing to the decline in Randland. Of ALL the peoples we've seen it appears the Sea Folk and Aiel may be the ones with the highest percentage of channelers in their population merely due to the Windfinders and Wise Ones having children.

[Sharaman]

This is a little different, but I've wondered what would happen if a man tried to re-heal Siuan and Leane.

 

Damer Flinn healed the Aes Saedi severed at Dumais Wells back to full strength and Nynaeve did the same for Logain. After Nynaeve healed Siuan and Leane, they kept asking her to try again to see if she could heal them all the way, but Nynaeve said there was nothing else to heal and that it was healed as much as it could be. This implies that she reconnected them to the Source in an imperfect way.

 

So I'm wondering, did Nynaeve unknowingly screw Siuan and Leane over, making it impossible for a male channeler to finish the job? Or is there still a little something left to heal that a male could find but a female couldn't? Are Siuan and Leane going to be back up to full strength for the Last Battle?

 

Brute force : Still them all over again and get Flinn to do the job properly. Like resetting a bone that has broken and healed badly. I'm sure Semirhage could have refined this basic process and made it more entertaining for all concerned. But there's no apparent reason why it can't be done. It would also free Byrne from being owned by a harridan.

 

[CowboyNinjaD]

This is a little different, but I've wondered what would happen if a man tried to re-heal Siuan and Leane.

 

Damer Flinn healed the Aes Saedi severed at Dumais Wells back to full strength and Nynaeve did the same for Logain. After Nynaeve healed Siuan and Leane, they kept asking her to try again to see if she could heal them all the way, but Nynaeve said there was nothing else to heal and that it was healed as much as it could be. This implies that she reconnected them to the Source in an imperfect way.

 

So I'm wondering, did Nynaeve unknowingly screw Siuan and Leane over, making it impossible for a male channeler to finish the job? Or is there still a little something left to heal that a male could find but a female couldn't? Are Siuan and Leane going to be back up to full strength for the Last Battle?

 

Brute force : Still them all over again and get Flinn to do the job properly. Like resetting a bone that has broken and healed badly. I'm sure Semirhage could have refined this basic process and made it more entertaining for all concerned. But there's no apparent reason why it can't be done. It would also free Byrne from being owned by a harridan.

 

 

 

But would that even do any good? Now that they're healed, maybe Flinn could only get them back to where they are now. And having a woman heal them a second time might make them even weaker.

 

Plus, being severed, even temporarily, can't be something any channeler would necessarily volunteer for without a really good reason. If I were in Siuan or Liane's position, I'd be inclined to let Flinn give healing a shot, and he couldn't find anything to heal, just tell leave it alone.

[Sharaman]

Who's talking about giving them a choice? Hold them down and still 'em all over again. Then get Flinn to heal 'em.

:)

I'm more interested in knowing whether Setalle Anan can be healed - that could mean a lot given her relationship with Tuon.

She might be able to persuade Tuon that AS can be good girls without have to be made damane.

Anan is burnt out so it's different - can she be healed at all?

 

[Mr. Insane]

Who's talking about giving them a choice? Hold them down and still 'em all over again. Then get Flinn to heal 'em.

:)

I'm more interested in knowing whether Setalle Anan can be healed - that could mean a lot given her relationship with Tuon.

She might be able to persuade Tuon that AS can be good girls without have to be made damane.

Anan is burnt out so it's different - can she be healed at all?

 

 

  If RJ used the word severed, then it seems to imply both stilling and burning out, as that is the only word used by the age of legends characters. 

[Auld Manriva]

If RJ used the word severed, then it seems to imply both stilling and burning out, as that is the only word used by the age of legends characters.

 

Not, exactly... What is left of the Old Tongue refers to both with the same word, but much subtlety is lost from the language. A distinction between the two, now lost, was likely. The AoL was a highly advanced culture and with that their language was likely very sophisticated, much like English, German or French. Each in turn has been the recognized language of Science for the last three hundred years or so due to their specificity. Latin, now unused commonly, was at one time more detailed than it is currently. Much of the vocabulary has been lost and it's relatively well documented. Scholars know some but not nearly all of more ancient languages.

 

Getting back to burning out and stilling:

 

One who is burned out, can neither touch nor sense the True Source. This would indicate some greater degree of damage to the brain structure Nynaeve and Flynn have found. The analogy I've seen somewhere (likely DM) would be like an electrical fuse or maybe a filament that is broken but the ends are still present as opposed to one or the other where the whole filament has evaporated from the electrical overload.

 

One way relatively easier repaired than the other.