AoL weaves?

[Vermillion]

How exactly did they get lost?

 

I know during the breaking that things were chaotic but there were a good number of AoL AS around.  Did they forget or hold back knowledge?

[mb]

Part of the reason for not teaching the weaves might have been because they thought they were no longer needed.

A number of weaves they forbid use of.  (Balefire, Compulsion)

 

[Zidel333]

The loss of Male Weaves is obvious; everyone who could teach such AoL knowledge was either dead, dying, insane, and/or holding out inside a Stedding. It has been noted that if all the Taint affected male Aes Sedai had lived outside the Stedding from the start, then the world would have been destroyed for good. That is, the Stedding Aes Sedai minimized/prolonged the Breaking. I wonder if any male Aes Sedai tried to write down or teach before they passed away....? The books might be with the Ogier if they did.

 

Female Aes Sedai is a bit more convoluted. Understand that for most of the AoL existed in relative ease and comfort for centuries, perhaps millennia of near social, economic, and governmental perfection. And then the drilling of the Bore happened, which led to the 100-110 years long Collapse. The Bore of course destroyed the university of Collam Daan, and it’s laboratory, the Sharom -- the leading facilities for research and education on the planet. Later, Bel'al would raise the Hall of Servants, another major if not superior location for the keeping of knowledge and teaching. The Breaking happened, and the male Aes Sedai destroyed the world, this is usually said to be ~240 to 340 years, or until the last trained male Aes Sedai died. In total, that's upwards of 460 years, including 10 for the actual War of the Shadow, and another 10 for the Time of Madness. 460 years is a long time to destroy knowledge. Consider that World War II destroyed most of Europe and Japan in only 6. Let me repeat myself, ONLY 6!!

 

During the 110 years of the Collaspe and the War, they saw the increase of evil, war, famine, deaths of tens of millions if not billions of people -- Aginor killed 50,000,000 (!!) to create the Shadowspawn alone. That's 50 million not related to deaths in battle, capture or control by the Forsaken, or the slow decline of Civilization itself. Can a total death toll be even calculated for the WotS? This is of course followed by the havoc caused by the Tainted male Aes Sedai. We can assume there was little to no farming due to loss of Singing and the Nym...water extremely hard to fine due to vast geographical changes (remember the well the ancient Cairheinian shared with the Aiel? That cannot be a lone happenstance)...buildings and cities razed, meaning little to no available shelter....

 

I could go on, but I won't. LIFE WAS HELL. When you can't find food, why would you teach weavings?! There was no point. And due to the Aes Sedai destroying the world, surely there a massive distrust in the One Power, the likes the world has ever seen. Worst then even, the Reds hating male Channelers in the 3rd Age. And that means something. So yes, holding back does make sense. And if the Channelers were too busy trying to merely survive, then that means we would have to rely on other means to learn about AoL weavings. However, the sheer magnitude of the Breaking meant most if not all such technologies and books were effectively destroyed. How many books or fragments exist from the Breaking or near to it? Only a handful according to RJ. Besides, the destruction of most if not all commonplace communication and literary containing technology Ter'angreal.

 

In short, the Aes Sedai were busy, surviving, and thus couldn't teach, or not enough time to properly teach. Too many fully trained Aes Sedai died, giving birth to many, many generations of half trained (at best) Aes Sedai and Wilders. This era’s Channelers was on their own for most/all of their education, knowing only the most common of Weaves, and later discovering others, such as the Weave for Warders. We do know that at least ~300 years passed since when the last fully trained Aes Sedai worked together (that is, the creation of the Eye of the World) and the formation of the new group, the proto White Tower Aes Sedai. This group was constructed out of several/many independent female Channeling groups. While it is possible that Aes Sedai continued to train and educate during the Breaking, it is unlikely and there is no record AFAIK.

 

Perhaps, certain Weaves' knowledge was kept in certain nations and peoples -- the Aiel Wise have unique Weaves and Talents unknown to the White Tower, such as Caressing the Child. The Sea Folk Windfinders are much stronger at Cloud Dancing then Whitetower Aes Sedia (the implications of this are frightening). Doubtless other nations such as Shara and Seanchan have similar claims that we haven’t heard about yet. These unknown or much stronger Weaves are perhaps remnants of lost AoL knowledge, or they might be “newly” discovered Weaves. There’s no way to know for sure.

 

** Note on Dates: Given the Toman Calendar, there was roughly 50 years from the end of the Breaking (that is, ~340 years since the War on the Shadow) to when female Channelers decide to regroup, hunt down false Aes Sedai, and order the Ogier to being the construction of the White Tower. Construction wasn't complete for another ~100 years, which was the same time as the Toman Calendar was created. Total time spent since AoL's height of knowledge? Perhaps 500 years. All of which is highly suspect in general due to variations with calendars and spotty records keeping.

 

Selected 2nd and 3rd Age Chronology

 

-The Collapse -- ~100 years

-War of Shadow/Power -- 10 years

-Time of Madness -- ~10 years

-The Breaking -- ~239-344 years (death of last male Aes Sedai)

-3rd Age – Year 0/1 After Breaking

-Tar Valon Founded -- 47 years AB

-Tar Valon Construction Started -- 98 years AB

-Tar Valon Construction Finished -- ~202 years AB

 

Total: ~461 to 566 years

 

(Source: http://www.sevenspokes.com/chronology/2nd.html and http://www.sevenspokes.com/chronology/3rd-ab.html)

 

....

 

Too bad that male Aes Sedai or more humans had not lived in the Stedding.... Consider that non Oath Rod/Binded Channelers have a ten fold increase in life span, upwards of 1000 years. That's only 3 generations from AoL to Rand's time!!

 

 

[Vermillion]

Well, I understand all that.  But it would seem that stuff like traveling and the like would have survived unless ALL the AoL full AS died and novices and the like were the only survivors and set up a quasi AS group. 

[Mr Ares]

How exactly did they get lost?

 

I know during the breaking that things were chaotic but there were a good number of AoL AS around.  Did they forget or hold back knowledge?

The short answer is, they died. All of them. No AS survived the whole length of the Breaking. And teaching is unlikely to be comprehensive during that period. If people are only passing on a part of their knowledge, then holes are bound to appear.

 

Consider that World War II destroyed most of Europe and Japan in only 6.

Good times.

 

Too bad that male Aes Sedai or more humans had not lived in the Stedding.... Consider that non Oath Rod/Binded Channelers have a ten fold increase in life span, upwards of 1000 years.

Not quite. In the AoL lifespan was up to about 750 years or so, IIRC, and that with medical care that was just not available during the Breaking.

[Zidel333]

Well, I understand all that.   But it would seem that stuff like traveling and the like would have survived unless ALL the AoL full AS died and novices and the like were the only survivors and set up a quasi AS group. 

 

I think that's exactly what happened. Female Channelers banded together at some point during/after the Breaking, which eventually led to the group that formed the White Tower.

[Cillian]

Well, I understand all that.   But it would seem that stuff like traveling and the like would have survived unless ALL the AoL full AS died and novices and the like were the only survivors and set up a quasi AS group. 

 

Impotant to note that some weaves require a certain level of strenght to make them work.

[chuckievi]

One aspect that people are missing here is that in the AoL not every "Aes Sedai" was a fully trained individual in every aspect of the power.  Think of it like doctors today, they each have their own specializations, ie a radiologist can't perform open heart surgery.  So yes, some of the more common weaves like traveling are abit strange, but the more complex weaves it makes a certain amount of sense they were slowly lost.

 

Aspect number two, not every channeler was used for actively channeling.  Many were basically just used to form up circles so the powerful researchers could have a larger power pool to use.  If you are waging a way against an enemy, and you know that a small percentage of your enemy holds nearly all of their knowledge...well you kill them and they are pretty much reduced to a very infantile training level.

[The Fisher King]

Its probably for the best too, all things considered.

 

Can you imagine all the major player in THIS war (the strong channelers) knowing those??? Looong before Tarmon Gaidon got here the planet would just be a burned out piece of ash...

 

 

 

Fish

[Rinkai]

I think of it as if something similar happened today. After a present day breaking, how many people would know how to make a tv, phone, or even a radio? Even though many people know the principles of how they work, making one is a different story.

 

-Rin