Post tGS Predictions of the End (Full Spoilers)

[Sentinel78]

I agree.  The general power structure of the White Tower is very de-centralized.  Egwene may very well attempt to change that, but few things right now are as a result of a decree by the Hall or the Amyrlin.  Rather, Aes Sedai are simply given their freedom (and a significant allowance) to run around the world presumably doing good things.

[Declan]

i honestly think the DO will only be sealed up. that the Wheel will not be desstroyed, and that the next age will be a rebuilding and an industrial revolution. With both male and female AS.

 

I am prone to think that all three taverens will die in the process at TG. I feel Perrin will definitely die. Rand is my second favorite. then Mat is the one who i think has the greatest chance of survival.

 

I think all the wonder girls will live (to my dismay). fingers crossed for Cadsuane to die :).

 

The Seanchan are going to be greatly diminished and eventually swallowed up into the land. There will not be one empire that rules over it all. Tuon i can see as dying, but she might live. I think if Mat dies, she lives; if she lives, Mat dies.

 

The White Tower will go through a huge change (no more oaths) and will assimilate the cleansed BT. DFs and shadowspawn won't be heard from in a long long time. I am thinking everyone of the forsaken will be killed. Ishmael will not be Balefired.

[waggawagga]

Well seeing as RJ had an outline set of notes for an outrigger planned for tuon and matt in Seanchen according to a signing QA with BS I think it is a safe bet Matt & Tuon both survive.

 

I also think Perrin will also survive and the witch Faile.

 

Rand to die. Unfortunately I suspect there will be some form of ressurection but hope not.

 

I expect lots and lots of periphery characters to die though.

 

Also I wouldn't expect much of a post 'final showdown' update on what the characters are doing, although I could well be wrong - but I can't see any: 'And Rand, Min, Avi moved into the golden Palace with Elayne and spent the rest of their days on a bedroom rota' :)

[Declan]

i think Perrin will die. i have no idea why, just my feeling. I like him though.

 

too bad about the outriggers...i was hoping Tuon would die. I think Min will die.

 

Logain might live and become important as a leader for male AS.

Elayne dying would make me soooooo happy but i know that won't happen.

 

I don't particularly like Faile but i dont hate her like som of you guys do.

 

How tragic would it be for Moiraine to be back for only a book and a half and die at the Last Battle? that would be terrible. My bet is she lives a long time with Thom.

 

Olver dies. Birgitte finds Gaidal Cain, FINALLY. A lot of snobby Aes Sedai will die in TG (thankfully).

[lbeefus]

One thing I always have to keep in mind is that RJ knew how the story would end from the beginning...  so elements that I feel RJ introduced later but hadn't always planned on probably aren't key to the outcome.  (Of course, he clearly had a lot planned from the beginning, so who can say what things were not planned).  I agree with the idea that, if the DO was killed, that the pattern would find a new DO, and Padan Fain would be the most likely.  On the other hand, I'm not sure the DO will be destroyed.

 

Here's a question: will we ever see a verbal showdown from the DO?  It would seem odd to hear dialog from the DO, even in Lanfear says that one can hear him in the pit.  For that matter, will any kind of showdown be similar to the Ba'alzamon showdowns, in which Rand seems to be on a different plane of existence for that fight, parallel to real world fights going on.  It would be interesting to have fights going on at every level: the dream world (Perrin), the real world (Mat), the Dragon/DO level (Rand), along with supporting characters in each.

[SimpleJo]

The White Tower will go through a huge change (no more oaths) and will assimilate the cleansed BT. DFs and shadowspawn won't be heard from in a long long time. I am thinking everyone of the forsaken will be killed. Ishmael will not be Balefired

Well by definition if the DO is defeated then there will be no reason for Darkfriends to exist and without support Shadowspawn will go bye bye.

 

I disagree that that the oaths will go away given they are the only realistic way to convince the Seanchan to quit enslaving channellers.  The most logical thing would to be take 2 oaths----a. making no weapons via the one power or b. using the one power and no killing via the one power unless in defense of a Aes Sedai (which can include male channellers)or a Warder and of your own life, the Shadowspawn restriction would probably be lifted given they won't likely be around too much longer after the last battle.  The oath that needs to go is one against lying given that is the one that is causing everybody not to trust the Aes Sedai in the first place.

[Knobs Mahoney]

I'd like to think that the series ends with the wheel breaking and the cessation of the Pattern's influence/dictating how life proceeds.  Not sure if this means the destruction of the Great Lord, or if he's just sealed away permanantly.  I'd like to think that it will essentially free people from the chains of destiny, fate, and predetermination.  People live their lives without things being pointlessly repeated over and over.  If the Wheel is broken, why does that have to mean that everything ends, instead of life proceeding on it's own course from that point?

 

Ishamoridin theorizing that as long as history repeats itself over and over, that eventually the Great Lord -has- to win does have a point.  If all this does is lead to another cycle, it's another chance for him to win the fight and utterly destroy everything, and I think it would leave a bitter taste in all the reader's mouths to know that everything that the series built up to was only another battle later on down the line.  Whether it's Fain, or Rand having all memories of all his previous lives, or some other wild card, I think that this will be -the- Last Battle.

 

The series ending that way would be much like the way that the Dark Tower by Stephen King ended. You get to the end of it, Roland finally achieves victory...only to find out it was all a test he failed, and he has to start over from the beginning with no knowledge of what he did wrong last time. It was a total mindbender. While I'd hate to see the series end that way, I'd also hate to see a "and they lived happily ever after..." type of ending, or that awful deus ex machina type ending that you see so much in other series. I think that it ending with the wheel still turning and life going on as it has would be fitting...

[Tathel]

This conversation is reminding me very much of the matrix. if you consider agen smith as Fain being and the pattern / DO as the oppressive matrix. The matrix had been recycled innumerable times much like the wheel but with minor differences. Essentially Agent smith's extreme evil perhaps something more evil than the simple control of humanity exerted by the matrix is what causes the system to break down and allows Neo to finally accomplish his messiah prophecy.

 

Something very similar could happen with the evolution of fain, originally a weapon to keep the wheel in line, actually leading the the destruction of the oppressive power.

 

What if the dark one is the creator / architect  that's why the voice in EoTW is ambiguous. And instead of actually trying to destory the pattern or humanity he's actually really just keeping free will from us via this ongoing cycle

[Kaveman26]

My thought on how the Dark One is sealed deals a lot with ketchup. There are actually five/six layers of plastic in a bottle of ketchup to deal with keeping it fresh. Ive read in several places "You can't seal the Dark One with TP because that is binding him with himself". Like a bottle of ketchup I think Fain will be sealed in the Bore along with Rand in a bubble of TP. Then Saidar/Saidan with cuendillar will form layers over it.

 

Rand will enter TAR in the flesh from inside the Bore and be attacked by Slayer as a last measure/counterstroke. As entering TAR in the flesh takes a part of you away, it will require the strength of Rand's bonds with Elayne,Avi,and Min to be put back together. Through his bond with Avi they will be able to link his past (Rhuidean columns etc) through Elayne his present (the babies) and Min will tie his future. Egwene will pull him from TAR and Nyn will do the actual healing. Rand+his ladies will be isolated and taken away on a Sea Folk vessal to recuperate.

 

Fain/DO will be locked in a struggle for eternity or maybe just several turnings of an age.

 

 

[jadelollipop]

Ive read in several places "You can't seal the Dark One with TP because that is binding him with himself". Like a bottle of ketchup I think Fain will be sealed in the Bore along with Rand in a bubble of TP. Then Saidar/Saidan with cuendillar will form layers over it.

 

Rand will enter TAR in the flesh from inside the Bore and be attacked by Slayer as a last measure/counterstroke. As entering TAR in the flesh takes a part of you away, it will require the strength of Rand's bonds with Elayne,Avi,and Min to be put back together. Through his bond with Avi they will be able to link his past (Rhuidean columns etc) through Elayne his present (the babies) and Min will tie his future. Egwene will pull him from TAR and Nyn will do the actual healing. Rand+his ladies will be isolated and taken away on a Sea Folk vessal to recuperate.

 

Fain/DO will be locked in a struggle for eternity or maybe just several turnings of an age.

I like this idea  but I am a big fan of "happy endings" I want Rand,Mat and Perrin to survive. I would figure that their lady loves will also survive.  I did like the idea of Galad being the "blood of the dragon" that fulfills prophecy but I am looking forward to his arrival to take Berelain out of Perrin's way....She is the one that annoys me greatly. I think if she is removed then Faile will also improve again.

[b9anders]

The series ending that way would be much like the way that the Dark Tower by Stephen King ended. You get to the end of it, Roland finally achieves victory...only to find out it was all a test he failed, and he has to start over from the beginning with no knowledge of what he did wrong last time.

 

Well, I think I'll be giving that one a pass then. Thanks.  >:(

[Declan]

Ive read in several places "You can't seal the Dark One with TP because that is binding him with himself". Like a bottle of ketchup I think Fain will be sealed in the Bore along with Rand in a bubble of TP. Then Saidar/Saidan with cuendillar will form layers over it.

 

Rand will enter TAR in the flesh from inside the Bore and be attacked by Slayer as a last measure/counterstroke. As entering TAR in the flesh takes a part of you away, it will require the strength of Rand's bonds with Elayne,Avi,and Min to be put back together. Through his bond with Avi they will be able to link his past (Rhuidean columns etc) through Elayne his present (the babies) and Min will tie his future. Egwene will pull him from TAR and Nyn will do the actual healing. Rand+his ladies will be isolated and taken away on a Sea Folk vessal to recuperate.

 

Fain/DO will be locked in a struggle for eternity or maybe just several turnings of an age.

I like this idea  but I am a big fan of "happy endings" I want Rand,Mat and Perrin to survive. I would figure that their lady loves will also survive.  I did like the idea of Galad being the "blood of the dragon" that fulfills prophecy but I am looking forward to his arrival to take Berelain out of Perrin's way....She is the one that annoys me greatly. I think if she is removed then Faile will also improve again.

 

i guess i am a fan of good endings. whatever seems fitting is ok with me. But i think some main characters, *cough* Rand and Perrin, will have to die for that to happen. it will make me sad but a good book gets you emotionally involved. as proved by tGS in the end.

[Kaveman26]

 

 

I don't think this series needs a body count for emotional involvement. I think several folks aren't going to make it, but no one character needs to die or live for there to be a satisfactory conclusion. Every character has already experienced tragedy and great personal loss.

 

On a personal level, the only character i sincerely hope comes out with a happy ending is Lan.

 

 

[randfandom]

 

 

I don't think this series needs a body count for emotional involvement. I think several folks aren't going to make it, but no one character needs to die or live for there to be a satisfactory conclusion. Every character has already experienced tragedy and great personal loss.

 

On a personal level, the only character i sincerely hope comes out with a happy ending is Lan.

 

Like you, I am a big fan of happy endings, but in this case, it's obvious that Rand will die at the end. I think the most we can hope for is that he'll have overcome his inner struggle and become whole again emotionally, then die in peace, accomplishing what he set out to do. He will leave the world a better place, have a chance to be reborn, will be survived by anywhere from 4-6 children, and will be remembered with admiration and love (unlike his first incarnation). That is the most that can be hoped for him. Sadly, he is my favorite character, but any other ending will cheapen his sacrifice.

 

As for Lan, there is no doubt that he will die. The viewings Min had in EoTW (a babe holding a sword) and tGS (Nynaeve distraught over a man's body) all but make it certain. Again, the most we can hope for is that he can free Malkier from the shadow for his son to inherit - and that he will have an heir. If so, could Nynaeve be already pregnant? We see none of the symptoms that Elayne has been experiencing so maybe not.

 

Other good or questionable characters biting the dust - I am guessing Bashere, borderland monarchs, possibly Min, Cadsuane, maybe some of her Aes Sedai's with their Ashaman warders, Illianer ex-king, most/all Aiel clan chiefs, most remainig Tairen/Cairheining High Lords and hopefully many Seanchan Blood...

 

Who won't die? the only ones we are sure of are Mat and Tuon because of the planed post-TG outrigger novels.

[Sentinel78]

As for Lan, there is no doubt that he will die. The viewings Min had in EoTW (a babe holding a sword) and tGS (Nynaeve distraught over a man's body) all but make it certain

 

Lan's death isn't certain.  The babe holding a sword viewing was just symbolic of how Lan was given his sword when he was a baby when he was taken away from dying Malkier.  Nynaeve's grief viewing is definitely supposed to make us think Lan dies, I'll admit that, but it might not actually be Lan the viewing refers to, could easily be Rand as well who we know will die (whether he comes back somehow is an open question).

 

Who won't die? the only ones we are sure of are Mat and Tuon because of the planed post-TG outrigger novels.

 

Also, we can assume the DO won't destroy the Pattern, in which case any of Min viewings requiring someone to live past TG would also have to survive.

[Ataxia]

 

 

Rand will enter TAR in the flesh from inside the Bore and be attacked by Slayer as a last measure/counterstroke. As entering TAR in the flesh takes a part of you away, it will require the strength of Rand's bonds with Elayne,Avi,and Min to be put back together. Through his bond with Avi they will be able to link his past (Rhuidean columns etc) through Elayne his present (the babies) and Min will tie his future. Egwene will pull him from TAR and Nyn will do the actual healing. Rand+his ladies will be isolated and taken away on a Sea Folk vessal to recuperate.

 

 

Doesnt Perrin have to be with him to save him 1 more time? Could Perrin possibly save him in TAR?

 

 

[randfandom]

Lan's death isn't certain.  The babe holding a sword viewing was just symbolic of how Lan was given his sword when he was a baby when he was taken away from dying Malkier.  Nynaeve's grief viewing is definitely supposed to make us think Lan dies, I'll admit that, but it might not actually be Lan the viewing refers to, could easily be Rand as well who we know will die (whether he comes back somehow is an open question).

 

RJ said years ago that Min's viewing only refer to *future* events (I guess the one exception would be her viewings of Birgitte, but that's debatable). So the babe with sword is not a reference to the past.

 

I just don't see Nynaeve crying brokenhearted over Rand's body. She'll be sad, yes, but not distraught. It has to be someone she loves, and only one who fits the bill is Lan. She hangs around Rand because she knows he has to live until the LB and sees him as the best chance for saving Lan.

[Scraps]

Lan's death isn't certain.  The babe holding a sword viewing was just symbolic of how Lan was given his sword when he was a baby when he was taken away from dying Malkier.  Nynaeve's grief viewing is definitely supposed to make us think Lan dies, I'll admit that, but it might not actually be Lan the viewing refers to, could easily be Rand as well who we know will die (whether he comes back somehow is an open question).

 

RJ said years ago that Min's viewing only refer to *future* events (I guess the one exception would be her viewings of Birgitte, but that's debatable). So the babe with sword is not a reference to the past.

 

I just don't see Nynaeve crying brokenhearted over Rand's body. She'll be sad, yes, but not distraught. It has to be someone she loves, and only one who fits the bill is Lan. She hangs around Rand because she knows he has to live until the LB and sees him as the best chance for saving Lan.

 

I agree. I think they need to start building Lan a nice coffin.

[Ataxia]

whoops

[Ataxia]

would be her viewings of Birgitte, but that's debatable). So the babe with sword is not a reference to the past.

 

I just don't see Nynaeve crying brokenhearted over Rand's body. She'll be sad, yes, but not distraught. It has to be someone she loves, and only one who fits the bill is Lan. She hangs around Rand because she knows he has to live until the LB and sees him as the best chance for saving Lan.

 

Thats not true at all. The book explicitly shows she wants him to survive and worries about him, not just for the LB. She also truly cares about the boys and would definitely cry over them. Id dig up some quotes but I dont think its necessary.

 

It could be Lan but it also could be 20 years from now.

[Declan]

Lan's death isn't certain.  The babe holding a sword viewing was just symbolic of how Lan was given his sword when he was a baby when he was taken away from dying Malkier.  Nynaeve's grief viewing is definitely supposed to make us think Lan dies, I'll admit that, but it might not actually be Lan the viewing refers to, could easily be Rand as well who we know will die (whether he comes back somehow is an open question).

 

RJ said years ago that Min's viewing only refer to *future* events (I guess the one exception would be her viewings of Birgitte, but that's debatable). So the babe with sword is not a reference to the past.

 

I just don't see Nynaeve crying brokenhearted over Rand's body. She'll be sad, yes, but not distraught. It has to be someone she loves, and only one who fits the bill is Lan. She hangs around Rand because she knows he has to live until the LB and sees him as the best chance for saving Lan.

 

I agree. I think they need to start building Lan a nice coffin.

 

i do agree that Lan is the guy she is crying over but Nynaeve does legitimately care about Rand. Being his wisdom all his life instills some emotion of caring and protection over someone.

 

But referring to an earlier post, just because Min had a viewing of what the pattern has planned out after the LB does not mean that the pattern won't be destroyed. Since when has the pattern ever planned to be destroyed. Min's viewings are directly tied to the pattern NOT to the future.

[royale]

hi everyone

im new to the boards

and this could been explianed

lots of people seem to think

BLOOD OF THE DRAGON = RAND'S DEATH

IT COULD JUST MEAN HE GETS INJURED

BLOOD JUST HAS TO HIT THE GROUND?

[Muad Cheade]

hi everyone

im new to the boards

and this could been explianed

lots of people seem to think

BLOOD OF THE DRAGON = RAND'S DEATH

IT COULD JUST MEAN HE GETS INJURED

BLOOD JUST HAS TO HIT THE GROUND?

You have a point. It is a very open-ended statement. It could mean his actual blood spills on the rocks of Shayol Ghul (like you say), he bleeds to death (as most believe) or one of his blood ("blood-relatives" ex. Galad) does one of the two previous things. It's a big RAFO question.

[Impressive Bosom]

I agree about Fain. He almost seems to represent another side of the Shadow. Such as the Male and Female halves of the One Power, its almost like the DO and whatever power Fain has in him is almost his equal and opposite.

 

I'm very curious indeed about all of that and what happens.

 

As for predictions, I did always think Rand would go too far, but I didn't expect him to go that dark or that grim. I thought Egwene would get the tower, but it was a delight how it happened. That all the subtle plots were just for women hungry for power.

 

I expect Fain to be pivitol. If failing that he'll survive through the end and sit overlooking it all and say 'Now its my turn.' The Fourth Age will have to have its own trials and tribulations... and Fain and his taint could be something to shake the foundations of the world.

 

Actually, I think that Fain represents the evil that men are capable without the influence of the Dark One, and as such will live on after the end of the series and the Last Battle... its not as if the defeat of the DO will result in this perfect utopia, and I think that Fain will lurk as the 'evil within' once the 'evil without' has been defeated.

 

JMO.

[Valisbourne]

Regarding the Blood of the Dragon, I've long held that that would be the Aiel dying as TG went on, at SG.

 

I'm not certain where his side wounds play in...  or how they are going to play out. (I have wondered if they aren't what's making Rand sick when he tries to embrace the source)  What I DID decide, long ago in the series, is that it is NOT certain that Rand will die in the last battle. (it just won't be, for me, until it is written)