Demandred (Full Spoilers).

[Vulgir]

I hope you haters out there all realize I am only exploring this avenue while still exploring others on who is Demandred, I stated this in earlier posts, so take a pill and wait, meanwhile make some progressive contributions lol

 

i have and i plan on adding more, when  i have realistic ideas that are coherent and supported by evidence...... more than OMG DEMANDRED IS GONNA SAVE THE DAY!!! CAUSE HES A SECRET GOOD GUY!!! I CANT WAIT TO SEE TWIGHLIGHT 2!!! So why dont you take a whole bunch of pills and see what happens.

[Vulgir]

Also-

 

Does anybody have any information on Demandred being Nae'blis? I mean, the DO (who IS afterall the Father of Lies) told Demandred that he was to be Nae'blis, but I dont' recall ever hearing about that again... anybody know anything about that?

 

I think it was implied that he told a few of the forsaken that they were to be Naeblis. Graendel, also has a moment where she ponders of how the Great lord all but promised her Naeblis.

[jemron]

Malicious and a double poster...  Sheesh.  Anyway, Naeblis is how the DO keeps the Forsaken in check.  He gave it to Moridin because Moridin is the only one who actually does what the DO wants because Moridin's goals are the same as the DO (destruction of everything, including time).  The other Forsaken just want power because they are greedy, so the DO dangles the title of Naeblis over their heads like a carrot so that they'll jump when he says "frog."  I don't think he ever intended to give it to anybody other than Moridin (and maybe Rand if Rand can be turned).

[WolfDragonFox]

I feel all the love its fantastic! hahaha, How do Forums always attract the bully wierdo's that sit and drink diet coke and coffee while eating pastries and cold cuts never leaving to got do some sun seeing. 

 

This is WoT, a series written by a fantastic human being that gave us the greatest work of literature in the last century and probably beyond that (IMstrongO)

 

Anyway back to Demandred, methinks our friend is Darlin w/ a MoM as suspect 1, but he likes his proxies so I have doubted that for awhile.  Now I am of the popular opinion that he is pulling some strings amongst the Borderlanders, especially Tenobia and it stands to reason he would be fitting in well in Saldea because of his features.  I'm gonna roll back through the books when we see the Borderlanders w/ Elayne and see if i can find an abnormally tall Saldean guy since we know that he was only slightly shorter than LTT and that LTT was a pretty tall guy.  Happy hunting to everyone else with their leads and angles.

[Sentinel78]

What's wrong with diet coke and coffee??!!!

[µ231282083275]

lol @ this thread

 

demandred is the poochie of this series lets face hes never getting to that fireworks factory

[OHurley]

But why make such a point out of it? We get to hear the DO speak only a scant handful of times (and Demandred too, for that matter), so I ASSUME it's integral every time it happens. Why would RJ make such a point of writing that scene specifically for a character like Demandred? And it's brutally obvious that should Moridin ever betray the Shadow, Demandred would be the #1 guy.

 

Makes me wonder...

[Vulgir]

 

Anyway back to Demandred, methinks our friend is Darlin w/ a MoM as suspect 1, but he likes his proxies so I have doubted that for awhile.  Now I am of the popular opinion that he is pulling some strings amongst the Borderlanders, especially Tenobia and it stands to reason he would be fitting in well in Saldea because of his features.  I'm gonna roll back through the books when we see the Borderlanders w/ Elayne and see if i can find an abnormally tall Saldean guy since we know that he was only slightly shorter than LTT and that LTT was a pretty tall guy.  Happy hunting to everyone else with their leads and angles.

 

You do that, look for the tall saldean guy, sounds like your best plan yet, except for that fact that as of that meeting Demandreds persona hasnt been seen on screen yet.

[OHurley]

Vulgir-

 

Actually, he's right. Demandred would indeed look like an unusually tall Saldean guy. Based on the description in that big white "World of WoT" book or whatever it was called. Demandred looks so much like Taim it's ridiculous. I wonder if making them SO similar was a goof on RJ's part. <as lightning strikes me down in my tracks>

[Mac]

After the poor(if occasionally intriguing) showings managed by Graendal and Semirhage, I'll be gutted if Demandred flashes out with a whimper.

 

I like this Borderland theory, though not entirely convinced that the four nations have upped and offed as an Forsaken/Black Ajah/Darkfriend managed ruse to get them out of the way.  Perhaps they smelt a rat (post uprisings etc), are playing their own game and see Far Madding as a safe refuge (from friend and foe) until they can get a handle on what the hell is going on...

[Sharaman]

Nobody marches 1,000 leagues or whatever away from their own Kingdoms, stripping their own defences and possibly abandoning their own civilians to the blight, for normal reasons. The whole "Come South to meet the DR" smells weird. Whether it's engineered by Demandred or the BA, it's off the wall. I can't see an explanation that doesn't involve manipulation by the minions of GLoD.

 

 

[jemron]

Vulgir-

 

Actually, he's right. Demandred would indeed look like an unusually tall Saldean guy. Based on the description in that big white "World of WoT" book or whatever it was called. Demandred looks so much like Taim it's ridiculous. I wonder if making them SO similar was a goof on RJ's part. <as lightning strikes me down in my tracks>

 

I definitely don't think this was a goof on RJ's part.  I think RJ intentionally wanted people for a long time to think that Taim was Demandred.  I believed it for a long time.

 

My theory is that, while Taim is not Demandred, he is directly controlled in some way by Demandred which causes him to act similar to how Demandred would act.  Lews Therin immediately recognized this when he first met Taim, and he reacted by saying something like, "Kill Demandred!"  I think Taim is one of those "proxies" that Sammael was thinking about in relation to Demandred.  A "proxy" is someone who stands in place for someone else if they can't/won't be able to do it themselves.  Notice that Sammael said that Demandred always liked to use "proxies" (plural).  Is it safe to assume that Demandred is involved with the Borderlanders AND the Black Tower?  I think so!  Who knows, maybe he is involved in Shara too on top of all that.

 

There is just too much evidence (IMO) to point to the fact that Demandred has a direct hand in how the BT is being run to say that he isn't involved with it at all or to say that it is just a red herring for what he is really doing.

[OHurley]

Jemron-

 

Is it possible that when a person is used a Proxy, it's almost like they're "possessed" by the person using them? Seems like this would explain why Taim reacted the way that Demandred would have when given honors by Rand. Of course, it could just be as simple as Taim and Demandred are crazy similar personalities. I mean, they both have reason to be brutally jealous of Rand.

[jemron]

Jemron-

 

Is it possible that when a person is used a Proxy, it's almost like they're "possessed" by the person using them? Seems like this would explain why Taim reacted the way that Demandred would have when given honors by Rand. Of course, it could just be as simple as Taim and Demandred are crazy similar personalities. I mean, they both have reason to be brutally jealous of Rand.

 

I kind of doubt that if Demandred is using other people to do what he wants/needs that he would leave them with any of their own personality.  I wonder the same things...  Is he somehow able to completely take over a person's body, or does he just control them like other Forsaken do (Compulsion and/or threats and fear)?

 

We know that Graendal is skilled enough to completely (almost completely) wash away anything from a past person's life and fill in their brains with only devotion and obedience.  Maybe Demandred is almost as good as Graendal at it?  Maybe he knows how to link his mind with somebody else?  Maybe you're right though, and Taim and Demandred are just similar but not identical...

 

RJ does like to give us clues that aren't really clues... So who knows?

 

[Sentinel78]

We know that Graendal is skilled enough to completely (almost completely) wash away anything from a past person's life and fill in their brains with only devotion and obedience.  Maybe Demandred is almost as good as Graendal at it?  Maybe he knows how to link his mind with somebody else?  Maybe you're right though, and Taim and Demandred are just similar but not identical...

 

Taim seems way too autonomous/independent to be under heavy Compulsion.  Every scene with Taim has him in control and calling the shots, except when he very grudgingly defers to Rand.  Compare that to Kerb or whatever his name was - Rand indicated that someone under that level of Compulsion would appear to be slow of thought, etc.  Running the Black Tower is not an easy task, being a Darkfriend doesn't make it any easier I'd imagine.

 

RJ said he was surprised when people started thinking Taim was Demandred, which implies a goof unless he was being sarcastic or something.

[Vulgir]

Ohurley-- I was stating the fact that even if there was a man that was saldean that looked like Demandred it wouldnt matter because we havnt seen Demandred in the book at that point as stated by RJ. So understand that.

[analyticalkeys]

Ohurley-- I was stating the fact that even if there was a man that was saldean that looked like Demandred it wouldnt matter because we havnt seen Demandred in the book at that point as stated by RJ. So understand that.

 

Well, that was of KoD.. technically he could've been in TGS, but I seriously doubt it.

[Al Jenn Mael]

I agree with Luckers Pie theory.

 

Demandred has been up to a lot during the books. He was probably involved in some way with the whitecloaks, boderlanders, Murandy, etc.

 

I doubt that the Black Tower a place of such power hasn't been dealt with by one of the more important forsaken. Sure Taim might be a new chosen but I think it is unlikely. As we probably would have had some knowledge of it. Maybe Grendal was involved but again I think it is unlikely. What may have happened is that Taim reports to Demandred and it started when Ishmael died and Moridin came.

 

The borderlanders won't fight for the shadow in the end, it would be like the Aiel doing so. They might oppose Rand now but come TG they won't be fighting with Trollocs.

 

From "My rule is secure," Demandred said, simply.  " I gather for war.  We will be ready." The only place I could think of that would join with the shadow at TG when Fades and Trollocs are around would be either Shara or Isle of Madness. Of the two Shara seems more likely. I can't believe that all he has done is manipulation and will lead the hordes of shadowspawn.

 

The DO has been working via chaos, pitting the forces of light against one another. I don't see the people of randland fighting one another in the end it feels... wrong. The last battle of good vs evil should be the shadow and his minions of unquestionable evil against the forces of light who all have come with conviction. I just don't see TG being fought and 200,000 or citizens of Murandy fighting against Rand or his allies. They would tell their children they fought on the side of the shadow?

 

Well some things I think Demandred might have a hand in, the Ogier. I think some of them will go over to the shadow and I don't think all the waygates will be closed. Many will probably be open so shadowspawn can fight all over the world.

I think he has been heavily involved with the Black Tower. I know that he hasn't recognized people, I believe that Taim just reports to him. I also think he has sent the borderlanders south. I don't think he is ruling any of the four countries along the blight because again the people have as much conviction as the Aiel, just remember the proluge in TGS.

 

 

So I'll go with the theory that he has been in Shara, though like others it doesn't seem like that would work out. I'm stumped and it seems like the best idea.

 

Though I have thought maybe he is in another world due to portal stones. They always struck me as something that would be important latter. But that theory seems like a poorer idea than any other of the reasonable ones put out.

[Vulgir]

Ohurley-- I was stating the fact that even if there was a man that was saldean that looked like Demandred it wouldnt matter because we havnt seen Demandred in the book at that point as stated by RJ. So understand that.

 

Well, that was of KoD.. technically he could've been in TGS, but I seriously doubt it.

 

And if you read the statement and understand whats going on instead of just popping in with a comment you would know that my statement pertains to a time before KOD when elayne met with the Borderlanders.

[Ryamano]

The borderlanders won't fight for the shadow in the end, it would be like the Aiel doing so. They might oppose Rand now but come TG they won't be fighting with Trollocs.

 

From "My rule is secure," Demandred said, simply.  " I gather for war.  We will be ready." The only place I could think of that would join with the shadow at TG when Fades and Trollocs are around would be either Shara or Isle of Madness. Of the two Shara seems more likely. I can't believe that all he has done is manipulation and will lead the hordes of shadowspawn.

 

 

Demandred in the borderlands doesn't necessarily mean he intends to use the non-DF borderlanders to fight for him. Actually, considering where it's probable that Tarmon Gai'don is to be fought (the borderlands/the blight), Demandred could be wreaking havoc in the Borderlander's defense. A lot of secret tunnels leading into the forts/cities and behind the enemies' lines would be tragic to the Light's side in a strategic POV. The trollocs could in one day take all the borderlanders' fortifications, some of their cities (no need for prolonged sieges) and their supplies, not to mention outflank the Light's armies, depleting their morale. Also, with fortifications, the shadowspawn would have a strategic advantage to counterbalance the Light's forces greater mobility, with Travelling. Since Demandred is supposed to ne a great general he could see a lot of advantages by doing that.

[Sentinel78]

They've built up Demandred and Mat the Uber-Generals so much that I think they're going to have to face off against each other on the field at some point.  Hopefully Demandred takes a cannonball to the face from a supposedly safe vantage point.

 

Luckers had a good theory that the whole "My Rule is secure" and "I gather for war" comments didn't have to relate to something Demandred has been doing for 6+ books, but was rather just Demandred taking control of the Trollocs so that whoever 'faked' Sammael and ordered the raid against Rand in Knife of Dreams can't pull those shenanigans anymore.  Although, in that case, the question remains who sent the Trollocs that attacked Tylee, and why they were sent.  Just leftovers from the raid in Knife of Dreams?  Trollocs that exited the wrong Waygate?...

[Aceviper]

HOW the hell can Demandred be ANYONE Rand has already met?! He knew Semiraghe's face before hand! Even Sammeal's! If he knew their faces, how would he not know the one man who has hated him like crazy?! SPECIALLY now; because now he has achieved almost full integration with LTT - remembering long forgotten faces and old memories are now like recollecting his own memories. I doubt he might be able to differentiate the memories either (remember when he tells Nyanaeve and Min about Tohrs?).

 

How can Dem be Taim, Darlin (OF ALL PEOPLE!) or any of those ppl...

 

It surely can't be Darlin cuz he shows too much emotion for a Forsaken - care, love, etc, etc. AND what about the Tent scene?! (When he opens a gateway to the rebel camp - infront of Caraline, fights Toram...etc...etc). Dont you guys remember that Darlin acted SO unlike any Forsaken. And when we talk about Dem, he aint just ANY forsaken; even Sammeal had said once, that his own hatred for LTT was nothing compared to Dems. That means that Dem is the kind of person who'd kill Rand on sight. Even Moridin says that only three can kill The Dragon - Dark lord, Moridin and Dem. You think Moridin would consider Dem just a simple forsaken to have included him in those three? He must have acknowledged the fact tha Dem's anger would take the better of Dem; that's why he included Dem in the three.

 

As for Dem being a good guy...can't help you there man. No way I can think it possible. Dem crying cant be meaning happiness that he doesnt need to face the Dragon. It must mean that he did something for the Dark Lord that made the Dark Lord very pleased. (quite obvious)

 

Shara is likely. To add to the credibility of that possibilty, is the fact that we know nothing about Shara or it's people except what Rhuarc and Noal Charin mention about them.

 

Dem cant be directly associated with the BT because, as stated earlier, he was confused as to who the "black coated old man" who attacked him during the Cleansing of Saidin was.

 

Ogier - again, not likely. Ogier have lived long - and they aren't hasty (lol). And they are busy deciding to open the Book of Translation. PLUS! They are all in Steddings - where Demandred is as good as a common man - no saidin, remember?

 

As much as I think against Corvinus' theory on page...14(?), I must conceed to all his points. Its very likely that Dem HAS used Compulsion on the 4 lords. Far Madding was a choice for fools. But I doubt they would have known his previous trips to Far Madding. That was supposed to be kinda...secret, right? Far Madding adds to the Complusion Theory cuz no one would notice the Complusion weaves because of the Guardian. Hmm...yes. It makes sense.

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Apart from Dem's identity, I want to know what Dem has to do with Shadar Logoth. Remember what LTT said to Rand once - he mentioned Shadar Logoth and then started ranting about "should have killed demandred". Any ideas on that?

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@ Sentinel - Good question. I mean, its not like the Forsaken or the Dark Lord to ruin an advantage of surprise. I mean, the Seanchan just thought them to be a myth, right? That was a huge blunder IMO.

[bushleague]

I agree with Luckers Pie theory.

 

 

Well some things I think Demandred might have a hand in, the Ogier. I think some of them will go over to the shadow and I don't think all the waygates will be closed. Many will probably be open so shadowspawn can fight all over the world.

I think he has been heavily involved with the Black Tower. I know that he hasn't recognized people, I believe that Taim just reports to him. I also think he has sent the borderlanders south. I don't think he is ruling any of the four countries along the blight because again the people have as much conviction as the Aiel, just remember the proluge in TGS.

 

 

 

 

Ahahahaha Lucker's Pie... mmmmmmm Luckers Pie <drools>.

 

I think the Ogier idea... not that I think Dem has actually inflitrated them, but I've never really thought about Ogier darkfriends.

[Sentinel78]

Far Madding adds to the Complusion Theory cuz no one would notice the Complusion weaves because of the Guardian. Hmm...yes. It makes sense.

 

I don't think the Guardian wouldn't stop you seeing weaves that were already woven (or being woven).  When Nynaeve/Cadsuane channeled in Far Madding using their Wells, the Guardian detected the channeling inside Far Madding, and nothing suggested this channeling would have been invisible to an actual channeler (like an automatic inverted weave or something). 

[Aceviper]

THAT is one of the many loop holes in RJ's works. Okay, lets take the time to clear that misunderstanding then.

 

According to many instances in the books (majority of instances), I infer that you cant SEE weaves unless you hold the One Power.  In case of Nynaeve weaving those specific weaves, she was holding the One power through the Well - so indirectly she WAS holding the One Power. Thats why she could see the weaves. I assume the instant she drained the Well or stopped pulling the One power form it, she would not be able to see anything Saidar woven.

 

Going parallel, the same applies to Saidin. Wouldn't you agree?