The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[mossman87]

This rules out it being the fat man angreal. In fact it kinda puts the crimp on this being an object of any time. 'It's been going for a long time' seems to imply that this overlooked thing is an event, or an effect....

 

nope...

 

I dunno, I see Luckers trying to interpret Brandon's words, that doesn't make him correct in believing it's an event or effect.

 

And if you want to consider an event, the puzzle of the angreal going missing and Rand not able to find it is an event like any other.

 

[Som1else]

this has to do with the *finn but has not been specificlly discussed I think so at least but when mat goes through the doorway in tear and asks his Qs but he asked a lot more then 3 Qs and got answers because "he was coming" or somthing like that. who was coming and what made them willing to give him all the answers instead of killing him for breaking the rules?

*i havent finnished the series so i dont know if this is answered later on

[Dreamwalker]

this has to do with the *finn but has not been specificlly discussed I think so at least but when mat goes through the doorway in tear and asks his Qs but he asked a lot more then 3 Qs and got answers because "he was coming" or somthing like that. who was coming and what made them willing to give him all the answers instead of killing him for breaking the rules?

*i havent finnished the series so i dont know if this is answered later on

 

I always interpreted that as them talking about Rand since we know Rand went in after Mat (Mat sees him exiting the doorway) and the reason they were freaking out being the strain of having two ridiculously powerful ta'veren in there at the same time.

[Luckers]

I still think the only thing I've continually seen go undiscussed and unnoticed is the effects of TAR when someone enters in the flesh.  It is only mentioned by Aiel Wise Ones in books 4-6 and is hardly mentioned again.  The Wise Ones say that you can lose a piece of yourself when you do it.  The only good guys we have seen do it are Egwene and Rand and in the case of Rand, he starts to grow harder and harder afterward.  Perhaps he has lost some of himself and perhaps the only way to regain the "laughter and tears" is somehow connected to this.  Who is to say that Egwene has gone totally unaffected as well?

 

Rand first enters TAR in the flesh at the end of The Dragon Reborn while chasing Ba'alzamon.  Then at the beginning of The Shadow Rising, Lews Therin's first utterance occurs during the trolloc battle in the Stone when Rand releases that whirlwind.  The voice just says, "Now".  I have a theory that when Rand entered TAR, it gave the Lews Therin voice a chance to enter his head for the first time.  We know that legends hang out there right?  Birgitte and Gaidal Cain for example.

 

Thats just what I think the unnoticed thing is.  I honestly never saw it until a recent re-read and keeping the books 4-6 unnoticed thing in my mind as I read.

 

I'm a fan of this idea, though in truth I think there's simply too many potential answers for this question.

 

 

[Aquarius]

The trouble with TAR is that it's not what I would count as "something small" in the way Brandon seems to have said it. The fat-man angreal, Mat's hat, Rand's third questions ...etc.. would fit that description better in my opinion.

[TheBrokenArrow]

Cannot be the crystal throne...

 

The throne of the Empress of  Seanchan in the Court of the Nine Moons in Seandar.

References

 

    * Guide - The Crystal Throne is, in fact, a ter'angreal that inspires awe in all who approach.

    * It does not require channeling. (from Winter's Heart signings)

    * TGH,Ch34 - The Empress of Seanchan sits on the Crystal Throne in the Court of the Nine Moons in Seandar.

    * WH,Ch14 - The Seanchan version of the Prophecies of the Dragon says that the Dragon Reborn must kneel before the Crystal Throne before Tarmon Gai'don or all is lost.

    * WH,Ch18 - Seanchan coins have the image of the Empress on one side and the Crystal Throne on the other.

    * KoD,Ch8 � Tuon tells Mat that the Prophecies of the Dragon say he must kneel before the Crystal Throne before the Last Battle.

    * KoD,Ch9 � The Empress of Seanchan always has many children to ensure a fit successor to the Crystal Throne.

 

First mentioned in Book 2 and then again in book 9...

 

 

 

But it can be the crystal throne that was sat in Rhuidean, never seen before The Shadow Rising, I think it was.

 

The glimpse of a crystal throne that could possibly be the binding chair mentioned in passing i dont think is obvious enough to earn Brandon's comments that it was similar to Vin's earring. its simply not mentioned or reference at all after this one sighting. I do like the theory and it is definitely something someone as sly as RJ would do but i doubt its the BUT.

 

The Shienaran theory is interesting cause we never learn the outcome of the rebellion which was so shocking cause Borderlanders never revolt. I think its part of what i see as another elaborate red herring as to Demandred's location to be amongst the Borderlanders (this line of thought was started by Graendal in TGS)

[mossman87]

There's definitely something big going on with the Borderlanders that we'll be seeing, with the revolting and with the whole army basically moving south to Far Madding, but at least to me it's been pretty obvious and a big thing.  Everyone's different though so who knows maybe it really was a hidden not-obvious thing to Brandon when he was reading.

[dumont76]

But what's the puzzle that should have been solved at the time?  The puzzle if he's alive?  We were told he was killed so there wasn't any puzzle, unless you mean we're supposed to question everything we're told and then that makes everything a puzzle.

 

I think this sums up the essence of this thread's direction as long as I've been reading and posting.  We're all eager to see this small thing, and in doing so have looked into every nook and cranny.  I'm in book 4 now (re-read), and I've come up with a list of potential BUTs already, and I still have 2 more to go to see a pattern...

 

I also agree with shadowkiller_001.  Who's to say we all haven't touched on this issue more than once, and that it's just not as big a deal to us as it is to BS?  There are a ton of possibilities here :-\

[Tel Asra Nejoar]

what about the sister alvierin sent to tenobia in the prologue of the fires of heaven? just started the book again today, and it immediately jumped out at me.in the same convo we first learn that bashere is chasing taim, that theirs fighting in shienar, and elaida doesnt like being snubbed(lol). it is a convenient time to get a darkfriend advisor in place as bashere is now gone, and it is one of the front-line nations in the coming battles. the sisters in the borderlanders camp keep being mentioned, is one of them a black? if so thatd be a kick in the teeth, especially as tenobia is keen to reinforce the bonds between the borderlands(she want to marry an uncle to ethenielle if i remember right). could she be a dupe?

[Aquarius]

Could ALL 13 AS with the bordelanders be BA ?

[dumont76]

Could ALL 13 AS with the bordelanders be BA ?

 

Ooooo...that's a trembling thought...a Borderland ruler turned dark...13 is the magic number

[shadowkiller_001]

Could ALL 13 AS with the bordelanders be BA ?

 

Ooooo...that's a trembling thought...a Borderland ruler turned dark...13 is the magic number

 

If Tenobia dies, Faile is the Heir? 

Maybe if Tenobia has been turned by a circle of 13, then Faile/Perrin/Bashere + whoever else could "free" the borderlander army from the shadow. This way, Faile/Perrin could be in charge of all the Saldean's or even all the borderlanders for TG...

 

[dumont76]

Could ALL 13 AS with the bordelanders be BA ?

 

Ooooo...that's a trembling thought...a Borderland ruler turned dark...13 is the magic number

 

If Tenobia dies, Faile is the Heir? 

Maybe if Tenobia has been turned by a circle of 13, then Faile/Perrin/Bashere + whoever else could "free" the borderlander army from the shadow. This way, Faile/Perrin could be in charge of all the Saldean's or even all the borderlanders for TG...

 

 

That could be one heck of a test for Perrin.  Imagine what would happen to him if he had to kill someone Faile loved?  The wolf would definitely have to take over for him I think.  Just musing here...But as you say, that would posture them strategically for TG...nice thinking there :)

[GrandpaG]

Aiel Darkfriends.

 

 

Books 4 - 6.

 

 

They just helped ruin Rhuidean over in the Last Battle RP at Revolution One.

 

Aiel Darkfriends!!!

[FarShainMael]

Could ALL 13 AS with the bordelanders be BA ?

 

Ooooo...that's a trembling thought...a Borderland ruler turned dark...13 is the magic number

 

If Tenobia dies, Faile is the Heir? 

Maybe if Tenobia has been turned by a circle of 13, then Faile/Perrin/Bashere + whoever else could "free" the borderlander army from the shadow. This way, Faile/Perrin could be in charge of all the Saldean's or even all the borderlanders for TG...

 

 

That could be one heck of a test for Perrin.  Imagine what would happen to him if he had to kill someone Faile loved?  The wolf would definitely have to take over for him I think.  Just musing here...But as you say, that would posture them strategically for TG...nice thinking there :)

 

And with Demandred in the mix as well.. ouch.

 

[lillcheese]

Could ALL 13 AS with the bordelanders be BA ?

 

Ooooo...that's a trembling thought...a Borderland ruler turned dark...13 is the magic number

 

If Tenobia dies, Faile is the Heir? 

Maybe if Tenobia has been turned by a circle of 13, then Faile/Perrin/Bashere + whoever else could "free" the borderlander army from the shadow. This way, Faile/Perrin could be in charge of all the Saldean's or even all the borderlanders for TG...

 

 

It's not possible to turn Tenobia.  The 13/13 only works on people who can channel.  Unless you think that Tenobia can channel and decided not to go to the Tower.  I kinda doubt that.

[shadowkiller_001]

Could ALL 13 AS with the bordelanders be BA ?

 

Ooooo...that's a trembling thought...a Borderland ruler turned dark...13 is the magic number

 

If Tenobia dies, Faile is the Heir?  

Maybe if Tenobia has been turned by a circle of 13, then Faile/Perrin/Bashere + whoever else could "free" the borderlander army from the shadow. This way, Faile/Perrin could be in charge of all the Saldean's or even all the borderlanders for TG...

 

 

It's not possible to turn Tenobia.  The 13/13 only works on people who can channel.  Unless you think that Tenobia can channel and decided not to go to the Tower.  I kinda doubt that.

 

I don't remember hearing that it only works on channelers. And anyway, we know what rahvin managed to do to morgase. I'm sure complusion could be used on her. that can be done on anyone.

[lillcheese]

Could ALL 13 AS with the bordelanders be BA ?

 

Ooooo...that's a trembling thought...a Borderland ruler turned dark...13 is the magic number

 

If Tenobia dies, Faile is the Heir?  

Maybe if Tenobia has been turned by a circle of 13, then Faile/Perrin/Bashere + whoever else could "free" the borderlander army from the shadow. This way, Faile/Perrin could be in charge of all the Saldean's or even all the borderlanders for TG...

 

 

It's not possible to turn Tenobia.  The 13/13 only works on people who can channel.  Unless you think that Tenobia can channel and decided not to go to the Tower.  I kinda doubt that.

 

I don't remember hearing that it only works on channelers. And anyway, we know what rahvin managed to do to morgase. I'm sure complusion could be used on her. that can be done on anyone.

 

First off, Compulsion and 13/13 are different.  13/13 requires 13 people channeling through 13 Myrdraal at an individual who can also channel.  It is the weakness that balances the strength of being able to channel.  It makes them vulnerable.  We know this from Sheriam during Egwene's excepted test. 

 

Tenobia could be under a compulsion.  However, keeping someone of strong will/personality under Compulsion is difficult.  That's how Morgase and Nynaeve were able to break free eventually.  Furthermore, it may make you work for the Shadow but I don't think your soul is in danger from it.  I get the impression that your soul would be in danger from a 13/13 based on statements from RJ about how difficult the 13/13 would be to undo.  Essentially the person would no longer WANT to walk in the Light.

[Batsoww]

The trouble with TAR is that it's not what I would count as "something small" in the way Brandon seems to have said it. The fat-man angreal, Mat's hat, Rand's third questions ...etc.. would fit that description better in my opinion.

 

I see what you mean, however, I'm not saying TAR itself is the big unnoticed thing.  I'm saying the Wise Ones saying that entering in the flesh is dangerous is the unnoticed thing.  The fact that this is said only in books 4 - 6 would make it just a small thing and fit exactly with the criteria.  I wasn't looking at physical things like the angreals and objects as being unnoticed and instead looked at nuances of dialogue when I did my re-read.  I feel approaching this as it MUST be a physical object is limiting the search a bit.

[mossman87]

Something is going on there though, an army formed by the coalition of countries used to fighting the shadow for centuries suddenly all getting up, leaving their women and children defenseless, and going to Far Madding, a town with a ter'angreal that nullifies the True Source, and asking the Dragon Reborn to meet you there. O_o Something is controlling those guys.

 

I don't think it's the hidden thing though, way too obvious in my opinion.  But definitely something we'll be seeing in the next book.

[Shard]

Something is going on there though, an army formed by the coalition of countries used to fighting the shadow for centuries suddenly all getting up, leaving their women and children defenseless, and going to Far Madding, a town with a ter'angreal that nullifies the True Source, and asking the Dragon Reborn to meet you there. O_o Something is controlling those guys.

 

I don't think it's the hidden thing though, way to obvious in my opinion.  But definitely something we'll be seeing in the next book.

 

I quite agree red alerts should be going off when a several generation nation has decideed to basically stop what it has been sword to do for centuries.

[Aquarius]

It's not possible to turn Tenobia.  The 13/13 only works on people who can channel.  Unless you think that Tenobia can channel and decided not to go to the Tower.  I kinda doubt that.

Sorry it got carried away. I wasn't suggesting that some 13/13 turning was taking place, I was just considering the possibility of a stronghold for BA. 13 sisters, with rulers that obviously have no reason not to trust them could make that army usefull.

[shadowkiller_001]

Yeah I was confused on the 13/13 thing and who that can affect. I remember the conversations in the series about how that is only a weakness for people who channel.

 

I still think that Demandred may be behind the strangeness going on with the Borderlanders though. It just seems so out of character for them to leave their homes.

 

I also agree that this probably isn't the 'BUT' since it's so prevalent.

 

It's still strange though. They must have a darn good reason to be away from home.

[bronnt]

I don't think the Borderland armies at all qualify as the big unnoticed thing.  They've been discussed repeatedly, and there have been plenty of questions directed to RJ about what's going on with them.  I'm certain he'd think that means it's been noticed.

 

And I don't see any malicious intentions there, either.  If those 13 sisters with them were all Black Ajah, then they certainly wouldn't want to meet in Far Madding, where they can't channel.  They'd prefer to form a circle and shield him, then turn him.  So I'll rule out the Black Ajah angle.

 

There was also a quote from RJ where he specifically said that the fighting in Borderlands was evidence of Hurin returning to Shienar, where he spread the news that Rand was the DR.  Without the Blight to occupy them, this lead to arguments, where they occasionally came to blows, but eventually, the news was spread to all of the Borderlands.  The problem comes because Rand ignores the Bordlerlands, when all he needed to do was to appear with an Aes Sedai to gain their allegiance.  He was too focused on uniting the Southlands.  The Borderlanders didn't like that he was bringing war to the South, so they brought an army to confront him.  I really think that's all that is going on here.

 

Eventually, the Borderlanders will be behind him-"the North and East must be as one."  I believe we'll see some massive Gate-transportation for that army very soon.

[mossman87]

Then send someone to talk to him, or a small army, don't send your whole army away from guarding their homes leaving their countries unprotected.