The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[FarShainMael]

Just to clarify Janduin (Rand's dad) went off to the Blight with a group of young Aiel after Rand had been born on Dragonmount (by this time the Black Ajah already knew about the Dragon being reborn so it's possible Slayer did but still, why kill Rands dad, the Trollocs would have finished him eventually anyway.). By this time his wife (Tigraine) was dead and he was sunk in a pit of despair, when a man who looked so much like Tigraine appeared he didn't have the heart to fight back and Slayer drove a spear through his heart.

 

I doubt this is what BS meant but I'm currently on my re-read so if I find anything else odd I'll post it up here.

 

Hi all!

 

I've been wondering about Janduin too.. Let's look at him in a bit more detail.

 

He is mentioned in book 4, TSR,Ch34. Amys tells Rand about his true parents. Janduin was the youngest clan chief in memory. 'He had a way about him that made people listen and follow.'

 

Amys tells Rand: "So she stayed, and in the last fight, before Tar Valon, she was lost, and the child was lost.. [Janduin] gave up his place as clan chief.. he simply walked away.. He went north.. to hunt Myddraal and Trollocs in the Blight.. It is a thing wild young men do.."

 

Note that Amys says she 'was lost'.. not 'died'.

 

We know from Tam's fevered ramblings in EotW,Ch.6, 'The Westwood', that Rand's mother, Shaiel/Tigraine, had given birth on the mountain alone, before she died of her wounds. Janduin wasn't there. He must have left before this happened, apparently without even trying to find his wife.

 

I wasn't happy with this. Why would Janduin walk away from his adored wife when she was due to give birth? He would have moved heaven, earth, and Dragonmount to find her, and his unborn child - unless he had a pressing reason not to..

 

Why do Bair and Amys not mention male Aiel channellers at this point? That doesn't come up until Book 6, LoC,Ch25 - Aiel men who learn they can channel voluntarily go to the Blight. 'Consequently, the Wise Ones know nothing of shielding or gentling men.'

 

Now it is mentioned in NS that 'Men generally begin channeling between the ages of sixteen and twenty-six.'

 

So.. I propose that Janduin, 'the youngest clan chief in memory', discovered during the battle on Dragonmount that he could channel, and decided he was too dangerous to Shaiel and their child to stay, so he leaves immediately. Shaiel is left alone on DM. No doubt she tries to rejoin her clan but cannot due to the onset of labour.

 

Then J is killed in the Blight by Luc. (Why, incidentally..?)

 

So what does this do for us? What is the significance of J's ability to channel? The man's dead! But we know that death is not necessarily the end.. ask Birgitte..

 

Well.. Now consider Rand, who has been told: 'To live, you must die'. Who MAY die on Shayol Ghul. Possibly at the hands of Gawyn (as has been suggested elsewhere), possibly assisted by Alivia. Though Luc/Isam may be involved; he is certainly looking forward to killing his nephew (WH,Ch22) Possibly Lan may prevent that, but I digress..

 

OK.. suppose Rand does indeed die, or appears to die - and, like Birgitte and the other Heroes, ends up in T'A'R (again, as has been suggested; and we know he can get there living and in the flesh).. where he meets Janduin. I'm not sure how J gets there, but the Heroes apparently can choose to enter T'A'R to await rebirth, perhaps J can also. Just possibly, Rand goes looking for him and Shaiel in T'A'R!

 

Together, father and son channel Spirit (what d'you mean, 'why'????), and defeat the DO..

 

Afterwards perhaps - like Birgitte - Rand is extracted from T'A'R. Perhaps he is called by the Horn.. the fighting isn't over yet. As Nicola Treehill says in LoC,Ch14 - "The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives. The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants. The future teeters on the edge of a blade." Not sure what happens to J though.

 

How does this fit with BS's comments?

 

'..there is something that begins in books 4-6 that went completely unnoticed by fans as far as he can tell, which is a big deal--bigger than the death of Asmodean. Though it first appeared in books 4-6 it has been mentioned in later books. Or rather it has 'continued' in later books..

 

'..hints about this hidden thing appear in pretty much.. in several of the books. It first, somewhere in one of those three is the beginning of where it shows up. The first hint that you get [...] I mean, it?s a small thing that means something large, that sort of thing..'

 

Janduin himself is not mentioned anywhere other than book 4 and 6, AFAIK. (Unless, of course, he killed Asmo!)

 

However, aspects of this - T'A'R, Rand's 'death' and possible survival - certainly are discussed!

 

 

 

[MikHael]

Howdy, I have not had a chance to read all of the post on this thread because there were so many before I found it, so sorry if I repeat something. 

 

I want to suggest that this unnoticed things is Herid Fel's death.  He was researching how to seal the dark one for Rand and was killed after making a discovery.  Since then, Min has been reading none stop and is trying to solve the issue.  I think that it fits the criteria and it is definately more important than who killed Asmodean. 

[cleantoe]

I think Janduin IS Lord Luc. Considering no one's ever seen Janduin before (at least no one who has seen both Janduin and Lord Luc), I don't think it's a stretch.

[Luckers]

I think Janduin IS Lord Luc.

 

I rather think Tigraine would have noticed somewhere in the process of creating Rand. This is hardly aSoIaF after all.

 

 

[cleantoe]

I think Janduin IS Lord Luc.

 

I rather think Tigraine would have noticed somewhere in the process of creating Rand. This is hardly aSoIaF after all.

 

 

 

Janduin went north to the Blight to fight. How would Tigraine even know, especially considering she's dead?

[Nightstrike]

Luc is Tigraine's brother.

[cleantoe]

Ah, now I get the aSoIaF reference. lol

[wingedearth]

Luc is Tigraine's brother.

 

Right, and I think Tigraine would have noticed if her husband was her brother and an Andorman.

[Ramza20]

What about when Rand is in Rhuidean. There are a lot of things going on when he goes into the Aiel T'E'R and relives those lives.

 

- First when he lives as Jonai and sees the two Aes Sedai with a crystal sword (Callandor) on top of Lews Therin's banner. These two must be the two women that were supposed to link with him to use it.

 

- Second when he lives as Coumin and has the conversation with "a soldier with a helmet like some monsterous insects. Maybe the Aiel and Seanchan have a bigger part together than we think?

 

- Third when he lives as Charn. He sees the first man and woman Aes Sedai drill into the Shoram (Which Rand believes is the bore) to tap a different source that both men and women can share. The DO's prison explodes.....

 

 

[Ramza20]

Slayer is a cross between Lord Luc Mantear(Tigraine's brother, Rand's Uncle) and Isam Mandragoran (Lan Mandragoran's brother)...As from when Padan Fain scrawled blood on the walls of the Fal Dara prison.

 

Luc came to the Mountains of Dhoom.

Isam waited in the high passes.

The hunt is now begun. The Shadow's hounds now course, and kill.

One did live, and one did die, but both are.

The Time of Change has come.

 

I think Luc is his persona in the waking world and Isam is his persona in T'E'R. That's why Perrin thinks he looks so much like Lan when chasing him to the ToG.

[Auld Manriva]

Who are the Finns?

Who killed Asmo?

 

WHICH is the more important part of this story?

 

 

Who made them? Why? Why are they so integral to events that have happened? For instance the fact that Rand and Mat are so bloody neurotic over answers/gifts given..

 

Your Big Thing is something to do with them, of that I have NO doubt. I suggested earlier it was to do with the nature of Mat's medallion. I guess we'll see next Christmas (if the book is even out by then) and 400 more pages of conjecture.

[ed2funy]

What about when Rand is in Rhuidean. There are a lot of things going on when he goes into the Aiel T'E'R and relives those lives.

 

- First when he lives as Jonai and sees the two Aes Sedai with a crystal sword (Callandor) on top of Lews Therin's banner. These two must be the two women that were supposed to link with him to use it.

 

- Second when he lives as Coumin and has the conversation with "a soldier with a helmet like some monsterous insects. Maybe the Aiel and Seanchan have a bigger part together than we think?

 

- Third when he lives as Charn. He sees the first man and woman Aes Sedai drill into the Shoram (Which Rand believes is the bore) to tap a different source that both men and women can share. The DO's prison explodes.....

 

 

 

Except they are dead. o.0

 

I think that was when Hawkwing was still around.

 

I don't think the drilling of the Bore is a big unnoticed thing. :-\

[mike-cook]

i'd be willing to bet that the small detail is in book 4. When Moghedien is battling Nynaeve in the palace in Tanchico Moggy tells Nyn that the Domination Band used to control a man who can channel is made of Cuendillar and eyt someone in book 12 rand blows it up. So the small detail is probably that the True Power is the only thing that can destroy Cuendillar.

[ed2funy]

There is a whole other thread on that buddy. :)

[Ramza20]

Very true, the drilling of the bore wasn't unnoticed, but how many people remember what Shoram was, where it was, how it got destroyed, and what it actually looked like. Maybe the fact that Rand saw "the white sphere, a thousand feet in diameter, floated as high above the blue and silver domes of the Collam Dam.

 

Arthur Hawkwing was not around when the hundred companions sealed the bore, so the soldier with the insect helm may play a more important part in that chapter.

 

And i wasn't saying the two Aes Sedai with Callandor were the important part. The fact that they had the sword and dragon banner as the Male Aes Sedai went mad has to be significant.

[NetSlider]

It was mentioined here somewhere, but maybe the shoram and that ruined city and asmodian saw later on is the unnoticed thing? I just don’t see where it was mentioned again later.

[Ramza20]

That's my question. Where was the Shoram located? I mean I was under the impression that it was always Shayol Ghul. Maybe Shayol Ghul is the remnant of the Collam Daan that Charn talks about in the Dedicated chapter of TSR.

[Tel Asra Nejoar]

That's my question. Where was the Shoram located? I mean I was under the impression that it was always Shayol Ghul. Maybe Shayol Ghul is the remnant of the Collam Daan that Charn talks about in the Dedicated chapter of TSR.

 

London! no really! on a serious note though, the bore is in what was once a temperate island in a cool sea, which was popular with holiday makers. the collam daan(sp?) was a world reknowned university and scientific research facility, not a volcano! it would be fair to assume it rose up where the collam daan was, due to the DO influence, kinda like the blight. does anyone else imagine the seanchan with american accents?

[ed2funy]

Americans don't have accents. Everyone else does. ;D

 

Texan's do...but they aren't normal. :D

[LordGaebril]

I haven't read all the posts, but I read a lot of them, and haven't seen this so far.

Isn't it on TSR that Egwene discovers her ability to Dreamwalk?

 

On TAR people have the weird feeling that someone is always watching them. In the beginning the characters always thought about it, but eventualy they cease to care, considering it a normal thing about TAR.

 

I was always bugged with this feeling, and when the characters no longer cared about this, it left me feeling a little suspicious.

 

Could it be it, the Big Unoticed thing?

I've never seen comments about it in any forums, I think it stars to show up on books 4 to 6, and I think there must be something behind this. It also fits with the Big (Previously) Unoticed thing on Mistborn.

 

I don't know...

What you think about my theory?

 

 

Ps: first time here! =P

[ed2funy]

Welcome!

 

She discovers it in Book 2 (maybe even 1). On the trip to Tar Valon. So book 1. She learns she can do it on her own for the first time in tDR.

 

I always thought it was the Heroes watching. :-\

 

But, I believe this has been mentioned..somewhere..not sure if it was on this thread.

[Ramza20]

This probably isn't the BIG thing, but what about in TSR when the Aiel start referring to Lan as Aan'allein, "man who is an entire nation". How do they recognize him, and how do they know about his broken crown, let alone their knowledge of Malkier.

[ed2funy]

I think they referred to him as that before, he had just nver heard it. He was too busy fighting them. ;D

 

 

[Ramza20]

Right, well it even says in the same chapter that they have enormous respect for him because of how he fought them in the marches of Sheinar. I was just thinking that maybe that respect goes a little further than we think. Aiel to the rescue at Tarwin's Gap? I dunno just speculating.

[ed2funy]

I know...I just wanted to point that out.

The only thing they don't like is the sword.